'Nature and the Greeks' and 'Science and Humanism'

by Erwin Schrödinger, Roger Penrose (Foreword)

Nobel laureate Erwin Schrödinger was one of the most distinguished scientists and philosophers of the twentieth century, and his lectures are legendary. Here the texts of two of Schrödinger's most famous lecture series are made available again. In the first, entitled "Nature and the Greeks," Schrödinger offers a historical account of the scientific world picture. In the second, called "Science and Humanism," he addresses fundamental questions about the link between scientific and spiritual matters. As Roger Penrose confirms, these are the profound thoughts of a great mind, and as relevant today as when they were first published in the 1950s.

Genres: Philosophy, Science, Physics, History, Nonfiction, History Of Science, Popular Science

184 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1954

About the author

Erwin Rudolf Josef Alexander Schrödinger, sometimes written as Erwin Schrodinger or Erwin Schroedinger, was a Nobel Prize-winning Austrian physicist who developed a number of fundamental results in the field of quantum theory, which formed the basis of wave mechanics: he formulated the wave equation (stationary and time-dependent Schrödinger equation) and revealed the identity of his development of the formalism and matrix mechanics. Schrödinger proposed an original interpretation of the physical meaning of the wave function.

He won the 1933 Nobel prize in physics with colleague Paul Adrien Maurice Dirac "for the discovery of new productive forms of atomic theory"

Reviews

[E. G. · Rating 5 out of 5]

Foreword, by Roger Penrose

--Nature and the Greeks
Bibliography

--Science and Humanism
Literature

[James Foster · Rating 5 out of 5]

Schroedinger’s thought went much deeper than confused cats. He published three thoughtful little books, packed with insights only available to a genius polymath willing to delve intensely into fundamental, universal, and therefore timeless and essential, questions. We remember him today for the brilliant thought experiments, showing how genuinely strange a world composed of elements at the quantum level, our world, really is. But we forget that he did the same for biology (in "What is Life?”) and for humanity (in “Science and Humanism”). In this book, "Nature and the Greeks", he reminds us that the foundations of modern science are less solid than we usually think, as one can discover by taking seriously the insights of pre-Socratic Greek philosophers.

The main contribution of the Greeks, according to Schroedinger, was the assumption that the universe could in fact be understood through human investigation. Note that this is far from given, even today. It remains possible that our current scientific understanding is actually our human minds misleading us about the nature of the world. For example, modern cognitive science has thrown doubt on (or even disproved) the existence of "free will". And our "understanding" of quantum phenomena is at least strange.

The pre-scientific outlook was that the universe was mysterious, perhaps even capricious; that one must rely on revelation. The change has a dramatic effect on how humans live their lives. In the pre-scientific view, the incentive is for the priestly caste to hide knowledge (as, for example, Pythagorus did). But the scientific view leads one to share understanding, in order to benefit from the exchange. The first tends to sustain the status quo, restraining advancement; the second increases understanding at an increasing rate, due to the feedback from others. This is a difference worth remembering today, since these two views are both still strong and extent.

[Christopher Taylor · Rating 4 out of 5]

Erwin Schrödinger was one of the finest physicists of the last century and he is best known for his ambivalence toward cats. This book includes two lectures series given by Schrödinger in 1948 and 1950, respectively.

“Nature and the Greeks” looks at the origins of science in ancient Greek philosophy. Schrödinger argues that two aspects of Greek thought are fundamental to Western science: 1) the belief that nature can be understood; and, 2) the technical approach of excluding the person making the enquiry into nature from the subject matter of the enquiry.

These two points guide Schrödinger's overview of Greek thought and lead him to make several important arguments about the epistemological insights of Democritus, Heraclitus and others. The presentation is clear and compelling. Schrödinger's key point is that we must fully recognize both the strengths and the limits of science. In particular, a materialist approach inherently excludes the subject/mind from its “objective” investigations. That fact has consequences which should neither surprise nor be forgotten.

“Science and Humanism” is a less focused work than “Nature and the Greeks”. Schrödinger discusses things such as the value of science (one element in the human journey to “know thyself”), the nature of specialization (a necessary evil), the implications of quantum physics for free will (there are none) and the conundrum posed by the continuum.

It is this last problem which ties in best with “Nature and the Greeks” and it is perhaps the most profound in its implications. Schrödinger examines the tension between the mathematics of a continuum and the reality of the physical world. Atomism is a natural conceptual framework given the evidence the world presents us. But it involves gaps. And gaps don't work when you assume a continuum as the basis for your mathematical models. And that represents a singularly difficult problem.

These works were written more than sixty-five years ago. A lot of ground has been covered in both physics and philosophy since then. Nonetheless, Schrödinger's ideas remain important. He writes clearly and honestly. He attempts to provide a balanced view. And his primary goal is to highlight the importance of a balanced view: a view of science and humanity that recognizes the strengths and the limits of human thought. It is a book well worth reading.

[Sanjarbek · Rating 5 out of 5]

"... Nearly our entire intellectual education originates from the Greeks. A thorough knowledge of these origins is the indispensable prerequisite for freeing ourselves from their overwhelming influence. To ignore the past is here not merely undesirable, but simply impossible. You need not know of the doctrines and writings of the great masters of antiquity, of Plato and Aristotle, you need never have heard their names, none the less you are under the spell of their authority. Not only has their influence been passed on by those who took over from them in ancient and in modern times; our entire thinking, the logical categories in which it moves, the linguistic patterns it uses (being therefore dominated by them) – all this is in no small degree an artefact and is, in the main, the product of the great thinkers of antiquity. We must, indeed, investigate this process of becoming in all thoroughness, lest we mistake for primitive what is the result of growth and development, and for natural what is actually artificial..."

[Yasin Ramazan · Rating 5 out of 5]

A classical statement of the modern scientific view as it looked in the mid-20th century. I particularly like the way he expresses his ideas quite clearly and pointedly.

[Elia · Rating 3 out of 5]

Compilation of two lectures. The first deals with the Greek way of thinking about the world, back when seeking knowledge through science and metaphysics were not independent. The second deals with the uselessness of scientific specialization while forgoing integration into the bigger picture. Both are more appealing to audiences with interest in Maths and physics as the author introduces examples from them to discuss forms and substances leading to the indeterminacy, continuum seeking and free will.

[Nick Black]

Amazon 2008-07-03. It's hard to go wrong with Canto editions, and Schrödinger's What is Life? is about the most perfect short scientific work ever (I had to switch from book: to author: there; search results for the former were ghoulishly unacceptable).

[Emma]

Nature and the Greeks: despite the fact that Schrödinger kept saying the ancient Greeks weren’t like *any* of the other girls at the time (which like did he check?? obviously not) by having no rift between science and religion, this book/lecture series was engaging! It’s the first time I’ve read a physicist talking about and around physics, its historical links to philosophy, and different ways of doing/approaching physics. It was also interesting to read this in the context of the lecture series being less than 10 years post WW2. The destruction caused by certain ways of doing/using physics would have been very fresh in people's minds, and so it feels quite natural that Schrödinger would have wanted to reinsert physics into a historical narrative where it has been so close to philosophy and how humans understand the world and by extension themselves. He also read the contemporary scientists/system for filth, and stated the rift between religion and science produced: "the grotesque phenomenon of scientifically trained, highly competent minds, with an unbelievably childlike - undeveloped or atrophied - philosophical outlook". On reading this I did feel part of this sentiment, and one of the reasons I wanted to look to philosophy after my physics degree was/is to answer the question 'what was the point' but in a genuine curious way.
The main thing I think I will take from it having "a highly flexible and open-minded spirit" when it comes to thinking about the world, how we describe it through physics, and updating our world pictures. After doing/applying physics knowledge for 3 years, reading this kind of thing - even if I disagree with various points he makes - is encouraging me to think more broadly/widely about what I have studied and I think that is a healthy thing to do aha. I also learnt about quite a few Ancient Greek philosophers along the way so will hopefully update my mental timeline as well by reading further about the history of ideas!

[Will Dorrell · Rating 4 out of 5]

A couple of lecture series about the state of physics and greek science.

Schrodinger is a super clear and enjoyable writer it turns out, coupled with a great equation, what's not to like about this guy.

The physics stuff was interesting, I really liked his discussion about continuity etc. and how weird our conception of the number line as natural actually is. Root 2 is a weirder concept than I realised. A deep thinker it seems! It's nice to see one of quantum physics' architects worrying about its foundations. Reminds me I should read more about that kind of stuff.

The section on the Greek scientists was, I thought, excellent. I really enjoyed learning about all the crazy stuff they came up with, conceptualising the breakthroughs in thought that started the frameworks we deal with today. I also got to read it while literally sitting in the ruins of Plato's Academy, which was pretty cool.

[Hessel · Rating 5 out of 5]

The book consists of two parts that follow two of Schrödinger's public lecture series.

The first part, "Nature and the Greeks", shares his view that ancient Greek scholars had on the shaping of modern science. It is most interesting to follow his view and understanding of ancient Greek thought. Quite fascinating, especially if one has already read a classic like Bertrand Russell's.

The last part "Science and Humanism" is a less structured read. A major theme is the discussion of the continuum, an important tool of classical physics in Newton's era, and how it collides with 20th century physics.

The book is a fascinating dive into Schrödinger's brilliant thinking on two rather broad and sometimes almost philosophical topics. It is clearly written and Schrödinger has clearly made an effort to give an accessible public lecture.

[Guilherme Ferrão · Rating 4 out of 5]

A wonderful book by one of the greatest thinkers in the XX century, presenting a fascinating view on the Greek culture and the impacts of quantum mechanics on the debate of free-will and determinism, among other amazing subjects.

[Duy Nguyen · Rating 4 out of 5]

His arguments on free will and separation between object and subject depend somewhat on the nature of mind, which is still a topic of debate (Schrodinger seems to be a dualist)

[Kris Demey · Rating 5 out of 5]

Maybe it’s me, but this has been a pageturner. It was highly entertaining, readable and thought provoking. Schrödinger was much more than the feline thought experiment he is known for.

[Akahraman · Rating 5 out of 5]

Exceptional!

[Revanth Ukkalam · Rating 4 out of 5]

A fair handed approach. Not worth reading in one sitting I would say; despite length.
Xenophanes and Heraclitus emerge as heroes.

[Leonard C Steffens · Rating 5 out of 5]

Good lectures. Democritus and Protagoras will be further researched.

[Mangoo · Rating 4 out of 5]

It was through a lecture of Mermin on quantum bayesianism that I got drawn to this double offering from Schrödinger, as Mermin was remarking on the role of the observer in the description of reality, in particular given by science. Indeed, in both lectures collected in the short book, Schrödinger ends up exposing his concern on the disappearance of the observer in the scientific framing of reality. In the first series of lecture, he looks at the root of science in Greece to see where and how this disappearance came to happen. In the second, he comments on it in the view of quantum mechanics. The lectures share also other topics, including eminently the conundrum of the continuum as opposed to quantum discreteness, the thought of ancient Milesian philosophers and of Democritus, who according to the author reached the conclusion of a reality formed by atoms and voids by the hint of Anaximenes that the fundamental process of reality if contraction and expansion (how can that be possible, if matter is a continuum?).
In the first part, Schrödinger acknowledges that the Greeks posed that reality can be understood (in contrast to religious attitudes) and that the observed was excluded from the description of reality, although Democritus had thoughts prescient of Kant regarding the role of space and time and of the role of senses in limiting and guiding knowledge. In the second, the author highlights the real role of science, that is, to help man understand who he is, just like all other forms of knowledge. He observes that present science connects to the Greek one and is presented with very similar issues particularly with the advent of quantum mechanics. There is a final discussion, incepted by the change in interpretation of causality, on free will, and his take against Jordan and Bohr, also criticised by Cassirer, is fashinating (free will may be the actual mental correlate of physical determinism).
The reader cannot but admire once again the clear and gentle style of the author, who shows to be learned well outside of physics and to be able to simply the exposition of matter to highlight crucial points (for instance, why according to Bohr the ultimate knowledge/existance of reality cannot even be conceived, that is because of the effect of the subject on the object in addition to object on the subject). And to explain the dual phenomena of light, Schrödinger already proposed the double slit experiment, that will be a staple in Feynman's and many others' exemplifications.
A delightful, entertaining and thoughtful read, once more from this probably underestimated thinker beside physical genius.

[John Gossman · Rating 4 out of 5]

This small volume contains the text of two lectures by Erwin Schrodinger. In the first, "Nature and the Greeks," the author tries to update the earliest history of science in light of quantum mechanics. He surveys the pre-Socratics to try to re-evaluate where our interpretative problems with quantum mechanics--the lack of intuition about wave-particle duality and the collapse of the wave function--went wrong. I do not think the essay succeeds in this goal, but it is still an excellent survey of the pre-Socratics from a philosophy of science point of view.

The second essay, "Science and Humanism," is less interesting and seems to me to have little to do with its title. It does make a strong argument that the wave function collapse is not an adequate philosophical explanation for free will: randomness is no more "freedom" than is absolute determinism. But the bulk of the essay is about difficulties with continuity and the impossibility of continuous observation in quantum physics. I didn't find that problem compelling.

Schrodinger is an excellent writer, and his arguments are always thought-provoking, but I think his major points are either now considered obvious or not very interesting, even though they may have been novel at the time. I still find the first essay a great overview of the pre-Socratics.

[Shawn Murphy · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is a must read to understand how science has gone astray by not being holistic in its approach. For some enlightened scientists, like Einstein, science can lead to a greater appreciation for the creator of the universe. I have not found a religion that fulfills this goal, but that does not prohibit enlightened intellectuals from discovering God’s Wisdom that science is slowly uncovering.

"To put it dramatically, one can imagine a scholar of the young School of Athens paying a holiday visit to Abdera (with due caution to keep it secret from his Master), and on being received by the wise, far-travelled and world-famous old gentleman Democritus, asking him questions on the atoms, the shape of the earth, on moral conduct, God and the immortality of the soul – without being repudiated on any of these points. Can you easily imagine such a motley conversation between a teacher and his student in our days?" Erwin Schrödinger

Schrödinger’s mission was to figure out how science had gone so far astray by following Newtonian physics. What he found was a holistic approach to science that has not existed since Euclid, Pythagoras, and Democritus.

[Bipul Roy · Rating 5 out of 5]

Erwin Schrodinger, One of the founder of quantum physics has tried to present his vies on ancient Greek Natural philosophy, Greek Innovation. Surely one of the best book to learn about various greek philosophy and science. I Think through this book,he tried to pay back for the intellectual debt that the modern science drive from ancient greek philosophy. Absolutely worth readin. I personally add one more star 6 out of 5. .

[Daniel · Rating 3 out of 5]

Interesting

Even though this is an older book, there were many interesting and still valid points made. The hardest part for me was the writing style. Many sentences were quite long and run on. This did cause me to get “bogged down” in a number of areas. The math and physics touched in the book were not beyond most novice science reader's grasp.

[Tika Sukarna · Rating 5 out of 5]

My life's book of reference :)

[Dee · Rating 5 out of 5]

I've been reading a lot of discussion on Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel. This book seems like in interesting companion.

[Vance J. · Rating 5 out of 5]

Clear and concise. It would be great if "modern" writers could be as succinct and clear when making their point.

[Rafelmenmell · Rating 3 out of 5]

un científico como Dios manda, con su cultura humanista.