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It would stand to reason that the ones who chose the Bible are Christians and would certainly have read it. And what would be the point of adding it to a list like this if one had never read it? Doesn't make sense. I am one that listed it and have certainly read it several times and will continue to do so every single day. By your statements you seem to think it some fictional novel but you are in great error in that. Though I know from experience that there is no point in trying to explain it as you wouldn't understand anyway. Just didn't think it was fair for you to accuse those who listed it as never reading it. Have a nice day. :D
less than 8% of american christians polled have read the bible. I think its more than fair to suggest they hadn't read it. Mostly because if you had actually read it, you'd be atheist quicker than falling off a log. Vile piece of work.
In my experience, most Christians I've met have NOT read the Bible. They've usually read select passages, but rarely have they read the entire book.
Yep, because polls are 100% accurate and can never, ever be manipulated to say exactly what the poll taker wants them to say. And every person that "claims" to be a Christian actually is. Guess I should have been more specific and say that every REAL Christian has in fact read the Bible. And the point actually was that why would someone bother to list the Bible on THIS list if they had never actually read it? What reason would there be to do that? So think whatever you like, arguing is pointless and I won't waste my time.
I've read it numerous times and it still stays on my list. Careful on your assumptions.
Tina wrote: "I've read it numerous times and it still stays on my list. Careful on your assumptions."
Assumption? Experience is not assumption. I'm offended.
So Keri has included the no true scotsman fallacy, because actually, yes, everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian, maybe not in the way you like, but they are. Also, assuming that wanting to have the bible means they have read the bible is ridiculous, if I listed the dictionary asa book to ahve, does that automatically mean I have read it, of course it doesn't. Just because you've read it doesn't mean all christians have, as proved by the statisitcs showing that barely any christian has read the bible.
No-one has made assu,ptions about you, btw, why is that always where these things end up going "oh, you've said something general about my religion, this must be a dig at me personally". Not what happened here at all.
And what reason would there be to include it? simple, its an act of piety to ensure people know that you're a good christian, and will keep that bible close no matter what, even if you never actually crack it open.
I must admit I'd never considered that people would choose it as an image statement rather than wanting to read it, but you're right - I can see quite a few people doing that. I've never really been able to get inside the heads of Christians, so I would never claim to be able to understand them.
The reason why I put the Bible as one of my books is it is one of those books that can always comfort me in any situation. Now I have never read the Biblefront to back all the way though but I have read every single book in the Bible at one point or another. So I would say that I have read the whole Bible.
Now saying that it is an image statement is what I would guess quiet a few people are doing in this discussion. But there are people like me who really love the Bible and if I never read it my life would be way worse then it is right now because I would never be truly happy. And just so you know it is even hard for some christians to understand what other cristians think. Catholics beilve that the Bible isn't from the 'mouth of God' and that it's inspired but I think that it is from the 'mouth of God' and find it hard to understand why they think it is just inspired. I also don't get how people who have read the Bible have found that they don't belive in it. I have a feeling that they might have wnet into reading it without an open mind but I don't know.
it can comfort you in any situation? With all the genocide, rape, murder, human sacrifice, sexism and racism? Wow, you have one screwed up psyche
I don't understand how people who claim to have read the bible can not have put it down in disgust and recognised it for the sick, evil piece of work that it is.
Have you not read the Bible it says that God doesn't want there to ever be human sacrifice, I think that the sexism is intentually in there and it just has to do with the time it was written and what it was like in that time, and I don't find any racism in it, as for the genocide and rape those are thing that people have done and realized that they did something really bad and asked for forgiveness and since God is willing to forgive us he does, and the same thing with murder David killed someone because he wanted his wife then he realized that it wasn't something he should have done but since we are all human we will often sin and I'm not saying that its good to sin but it will happen and you just need to ask to be forgiven and show that you will try your best not to do it angain.
I don't get how you can say it is a sick, evil piece of work I just don't see that there in the Bible.
god quite specifically tells his people to put non believers to the sword. I believe you haven't read as much of the bible as you claim, and all you've pulled out is the usual apologetics. God allowed Jephthah to vow to sacrifice the first thing that came to meet him on his return home if god let him win a battle, and god agreed, knowing in his omniscience that it would be his daughter, and the sacrifice was carried out.
God tells his people to destroy entire cities, but to keep the virgins for themselves as prizes. He gives permission for those virgins to be used as wives, do you think those women wanted to have sex with their captors. It was rape and god condoned it. God orders genocide, god created laws according to the old testamant that include that a raped girl is to be brought from her father by the rapist and married. God gave laws that unruly children were to be stoned to death. God created laws that homosexuals were to be stoned. God created laws that if a married woman is raped, then she is to be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. God is a dick.
And the very fact that people claim that god will forgive those who commit rape and murder just proves that the god of the bible is immoral. You can rape and murder as much as you want, as long as you ask god for forgiveness, that is dogma, by the way, that all you need to get into heaven is to believe in and accept god and Jesus, no matter how much of a dousch you actually are. Thats not morality.
God created laws on owning slaves, on how to mark them as your property, and on how much you were allowed to beat them (as long as they don't die within 2 days of you beating them, you're off the hook). If you believe the bible is from the mouth of god, then you believe that he said all these things. So how can you claim that god is good?
Also, according to the bible, neither you, or I, as females should be talking about it at all, we should go in silence, and ask our husbands or fathers to speak for us.
Well as I have said before I am not Catholic. Catholics are the one who still believe that women don’t get much say in the church and I don’t know why it is like that but it is. I even just asked one of my youth group leaders why they are like that and he doesn’t know but on Thursday I am going to ask more of my youth group leader if they know why they are like that and I h=will hopefully get an answer then.
As for the other things you said that is from the Old Testament where we first strayed away from God and didn’t do as he wanted. I know that God has tried to help that who strayed from him and that is why he would send some of the people who believe in him to go to cities where people don’t believe in him and try to help those people get closer to God and not further away from Him. That is also why God sent down his only son Jesus. To help us to not do those bad things such as raping people killing people and all of that. When I say that the Bible is from the ‘mouth of God’ I mean that he put everything in there to teach us but he wasn’t the one who told us oh go ad kill that person and that person. He would punish his followers who would do that but then they would realize that they didn’t do as he wanted them to do and they would ask for forgiveness. Now they would also sacrifice animals (not humans) to God. There are some cases were God test his followers to see how much they love him and believe in him. Like with Abraham and Isaac how God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son and when he saw that he would actually do it he had him sacrifice a lamb instead of his son. Now when God sent down Jesus, Jesus came to show us that we will no longer have to do animal sacrifices to be able to go to Heaven. Jesus also is the one that made it easier to go to Heaven and be followers of God. But Jesus NEVER said to non-believers that they had do die he would reach out and try to befriend them. So where you got the idea where he and God wanted them dead I have no idea. God wanted his creations to be good and not bad so he would reach out to them and not try to kill them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY6VAy...
This song is a really good example of what christians sometimes do but yet we shouldn't do.
lets not get into the ins and outs here, what this comes down to is that you stated that the bible is the voice of god, thus anything in the bible is what god wants, is what godd condones, and his words. Thus you, as a person ho worships this god, also condones these things. This includes rape, slavery, genocide, racism and sexism. And Jesus, in Matthew 5:18 states that no part of the law set down in the old testament is to be put aside, that it is all still relevant, so the old testament laws regarding rape, homosexuality, wearing mixed fabric blends, cutting your hair, and making sacrifice to the lord all still stands according to jesus's teachings.
OR, you don't agree with these things, and as such, are a better and more moral person than the god you say is responsible for the words in the bible. And if you're a better more moral person than that god, why would you worship it?
what is really, really fortunate in all this, of course, is that there is no proof of any god existing, and even if there was one, there's little chance that of the several thousand worshipped, that its the one you claim to worship. When there is no proof for the existence of something, the only rational and reasonable response is to reject that it exists. Or do you believe in Odin, Zeus, Vishnu, John Frum, dragons, fairies and pixies as well?
Like I said before Goddoesn't say anything like that in the Old Testament I don't get where you are getting that from and for you to suggest that I am stupid enough to belive in dragons and faries and pixies is quite an insult. There are proofs of God. If it werent for God I wouldn't love to read andI wouldn't gotothe wonderful high school that I go to. You need to open your eyes to be able to see God. You are just keeping your eyes shut because you are afraid to see him. You worry that he might do something bad to you but he won't. You probably had Christianity stuffed down your throat at one point in your life and now you think that God is bad and made up but he isn't.
I'm getting it from the old testament, because it is there. Go read leviticus and deuteronomy where the laws are laid down, the ones apparently given by god. Its all there. That a rapist must pay his victims father 50sheckels and marry her, that a betrothed girl who is raped must be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. I'm not pulling this out of my arse here, its in the bible.
I love that "you just don't want to see" line, its so typical of people who don't realise how much eye opening goes in to realising that there is no god, and that the god depicted in the bible is cruel, capricious and evil. I didn't just decide I don't want to see god, I came to the realisation that there isn't one, and my life is better for it.
Oh, and I've never had christianity stuffed down my throat, I had a very open upbringing, I was christened mthodist, but we didn't really attend church. I did however, learn how to think critically, and upon evaluating the material, and the evidence, there is no rational reason to believe in god. I don't think god is bad, I don't think he exists, I can't dislike him any more than I dislike Suaron, as a literary figure who inspires that emotional response, but that we know isn't real. The only reason I talk about him as if he were somehting to dislike is because you obviously think he is real, despite there being no reason to think that he is.
Now, tell me, do you give the same time and attention to all the other supernatural creatures and gods that we "can't prove" don't exist?
look, you're welcome to believe what you want, I don't care, most atheists don't care, as long as what you're doing doesn't impact ont he rights and freedoms of others to live according to their beliefs. However, I also consider it important that we ensure we hold as many true and as few false beliefs as we can, and the only way to do that is through investigation, and if you actually pay attention to the bible, and look at what's in there, there is some good stuff, I don't disagree on that, but there's far more bad stuff than good, and none of the good stuff requires religion or good to be good, it stands alone.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
*religion or go to be good. I wish these posts had an edit function
and alll thats without mentioning the complete lack of proof that god exists, and the complete lack of any proof that Jesus existed (there is none, no matter what creationists may claim).
I wonder also, all these people listing the bible, which version do they mean? I wonder how many mean the king james version, whcih was altered by King James in order to give royalty divinity, and changed the description of the holy city to match that of Edinburgh.
Rawr I hate this you cant edit and when I highlight something to change it it delets everything Im jsut going to message you.
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Keri
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Sep 05, 2012 05:57AM
It would stand to reason that the ones who chose the Bible are Christians and would certainly have read it. And what would be the point of adding it to a list like this if one had never read it? Doesn't make sense. I am one that listed it and have certainly read it several times and will continue to do so every single day. By your statements you seem to think it some fictional novel but you are in great error in that. Though I know from experience that there is no point in trying to explain it as you wouldn't understand anyway. Just didn't think it was fair for you to accuse those who listed it as never reading it. Have a nice day. :D
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less than 8% of american christians polled have read the bible. I think its more than fair to suggest they hadn't read it. Mostly because if you had actually read it, you'd be atheist quicker than falling off a log. Vile piece of work.
In my experience, most Christians I've met have NOT read the Bible. They've usually read select passages, but rarely have they read the entire book.
Yep, because polls are 100% accurate and can never, ever be manipulated to say exactly what the poll taker wants them to say. And every person that "claims" to be a Christian actually is. Guess I should have been more specific and say that every REAL Christian has in fact read the Bible. And the point actually was that why would someone bother to list the Bible on THIS list if they had never actually read it? What reason would there be to do that? So think whatever you like, arguing is pointless and I won't waste my time.
I've read it numerous times and it still stays on my list. Careful on your assumptions.
Tina wrote: "I've read it numerous times and it still stays on my list. Careful on your assumptions."Assumption? Experience is not assumption. I'm offended.
So Keri has included the no true scotsman fallacy, because actually, yes, everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian, maybe not in the way you like, but they are. Also, assuming that wanting to have the bible means they have read the bible is ridiculous, if I listed the dictionary asa book to ahve, does that automatically mean I have read it, of course it doesn't. Just because you've read it doesn't mean all christians have, as proved by the statisitcs showing that barely any christian has read the bible. No-one has made assu,ptions about you, btw, why is that always where these things end up going "oh, you've said something general about my religion, this must be a dig at me personally". Not what happened here at all.
And what reason would there be to include it? simple, its an act of piety to ensure people know that you're a good christian, and will keep that bible close no matter what, even if you never actually crack it open.
I must admit I'd never considered that people would choose it as an image statement rather than wanting to read it, but you're right - I can see quite a few people doing that. I've never really been able to get inside the heads of Christians, so I would never claim to be able to understand them.
The reason why I put the Bible as one of my books is it is one of those books that can always comfort me in any situation. Now I have never read the Biblefront to back all the way though but I have read every single book in the Bible at one point or another. So I would say that I have read the whole Bible. Now saying that it is an image statement is what I would guess quiet a few people are doing in this discussion. But there are people like me who really love the Bible and if I never read it my life would be way worse then it is right now because I would never be truly happy. And just so you know it is even hard for some christians to understand what other cristians think. Catholics beilve that the Bible isn't from the 'mouth of God' and that it's inspired but I think that it is from the 'mouth of God' and find it hard to understand why they think it is just inspired. I also don't get how people who have read the Bible have found that they don't belive in it. I have a feeling that they might have wnet into reading it without an open mind but I don't know.
it can comfort you in any situation? With all the genocide, rape, murder, human sacrifice, sexism and racism? Wow, you have one screwed up psyche
I don't understand how people who claim to have read the bible can not have put it down in disgust and recognised it for the sick, evil piece of work that it is.
Have you not read the Bible it says that God doesn't want there to ever be human sacrifice, I think that the sexism is intentually in there and it just has to do with the time it was written and what it was like in that time, and I don't find any racism in it, as for the genocide and rape those are thing that people have done and realized that they did something really bad and asked for forgiveness and since God is willing to forgive us he does, and the same thing with murder David killed someone because he wanted his wife then he realized that it wasn't something he should have done but since we are all human we will often sin and I'm not saying that its good to sin but it will happen and you just need to ask to be forgiven and show that you will try your best not to do it angain.
I don't get how you can say it is a sick, evil piece of work I just don't see that there in the Bible.
god quite specifically tells his people to put non believers to the sword. I believe you haven't read as much of the bible as you claim, and all you've pulled out is the usual apologetics. God allowed Jephthah to vow to sacrifice the first thing that came to meet him on his return home if god let him win a battle, and god agreed, knowing in his omniscience that it would be his daughter, and the sacrifice was carried out. God tells his people to destroy entire cities, but to keep the virgins for themselves as prizes. He gives permission for those virgins to be used as wives, do you think those women wanted to have sex with their captors. It was rape and god condoned it. God orders genocide, god created laws according to the old testamant that include that a raped girl is to be brought from her father by the rapist and married. God gave laws that unruly children were to be stoned to death. God created laws that homosexuals were to be stoned. God created laws that if a married woman is raped, then she is to be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. God is a dick.
And the very fact that people claim that god will forgive those who commit rape and murder just proves that the god of the bible is immoral. You can rape and murder as much as you want, as long as you ask god for forgiveness, that is dogma, by the way, that all you need to get into heaven is to believe in and accept god and Jesus, no matter how much of a dousch you actually are. Thats not morality.
God created laws on owning slaves, on how to mark them as your property, and on how much you were allowed to beat them (as long as they don't die within 2 days of you beating them, you're off the hook). If you believe the bible is from the mouth of god, then you believe that he said all these things. So how can you claim that god is good?
Also, according to the bible, neither you, or I, as females should be talking about it at all, we should go in silence, and ask our husbands or fathers to speak for us.
Well as I have said before I am not Catholic. Catholics are the one who still believe that women don’t get much say in the church and I don’t know why it is like that but it is. I even just asked one of my youth group leaders why they are like that and he doesn’t know but on Thursday I am going to ask more of my youth group leader if they know why they are like that and I h=will hopefully get an answer then. As for the other things you said that is from the Old Testament where we first strayed away from God and didn’t do as he wanted. I know that God has tried to help that who strayed from him and that is why he would send some of the people who believe in him to go to cities where people don’t believe in him and try to help those people get closer to God and not further away from Him. That is also why God sent down his only son Jesus. To help us to not do those bad things such as raping people killing people and all of that. When I say that the Bible is from the ‘mouth of God’ I mean that he put everything in there to teach us but he wasn’t the one who told us oh go ad kill that person and that person. He would punish his followers who would do that but then they would realize that they didn’t do as he wanted them to do and they would ask for forgiveness. Now they would also sacrifice animals (not humans) to God. There are some cases were God test his followers to see how much they love him and believe in him. Like with Abraham and Isaac how God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son and when he saw that he would actually do it he had him sacrifice a lamb instead of his son. Now when God sent down Jesus, Jesus came to show us that we will no longer have to do animal sacrifices to be able to go to Heaven. Jesus also is the one that made it easier to go to Heaven and be followers of God. But Jesus NEVER said to non-believers that they had do die he would reach out and try to befriend them. So where you got the idea where he and God wanted them dead I have no idea. God wanted his creations to be good and not bad so he would reach out to them and not try to kill them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY6VAy... This song is a really good example of what christians sometimes do but yet we shouldn't do.
lets not get into the ins and outs here, what this comes down to is that you stated that the bible is the voice of god, thus anything in the bible is what god wants, is what godd condones, and his words. Thus you, as a person ho worships this god, also condones these things. This includes rape, slavery, genocide, racism and sexism. And Jesus, in Matthew 5:18 states that no part of the law set down in the old testament is to be put aside, that it is all still relevant, so the old testament laws regarding rape, homosexuality, wearing mixed fabric blends, cutting your hair, and making sacrifice to the lord all still stands according to jesus's teachings. OR, you don't agree with these things, and as such, are a better and more moral person than the god you say is responsible for the words in the bible. And if you're a better more moral person than that god, why would you worship it?
what is really, really fortunate in all this, of course, is that there is no proof of any god existing, and even if there was one, there's little chance that of the several thousand worshipped, that its the one you claim to worship. When there is no proof for the existence of something, the only rational and reasonable response is to reject that it exists. Or do you believe in Odin, Zeus, Vishnu, John Frum, dragons, fairies and pixies as well?
Like I said before Goddoesn't say anything like that in the Old Testament I don't get where you are getting that from and for you to suggest that I am stupid enough to belive in dragons and faries and pixies is quite an insult. There are proofs of God. If it werent for God I wouldn't love to read andI wouldn't gotothe wonderful high school that I go to. You need to open your eyes to be able to see God. You are just keeping your eyes shut because you are afraid to see him. You worry that he might do something bad to you but he won't. You probably had Christianity stuffed down your throat at one point in your life and now you think that God is bad and made up but he isn't.
I'm getting it from the old testament, because it is there. Go read leviticus and deuteronomy where the laws are laid down, the ones apparently given by god. Its all there. That a rapist must pay his victims father 50sheckels and marry her, that a betrothed girl who is raped must be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. I'm not pulling this out of my arse here, its in the bible.
I love that "you just don't want to see" line, its so typical of people who don't realise how much eye opening goes in to realising that there is no god, and that the god depicted in the bible is cruel, capricious and evil. I didn't just decide I don't want to see god, I came to the realisation that there isn't one, and my life is better for it.
Oh, and I've never had christianity stuffed down my throat, I had a very open upbringing, I was christened mthodist, but we didn't really attend church. I did however, learn how to think critically, and upon evaluating the material, and the evidence, there is no rational reason to believe in god. I don't think god is bad, I don't think he exists, I can't dislike him any more than I dislike Suaron, as a literary figure who inspires that emotional response, but that we know isn't real. The only reason I talk about him as if he were somehting to dislike is because you obviously think he is real, despite there being no reason to think that he is.Now, tell me, do you give the same time and attention to all the other supernatural creatures and gods that we "can't prove" don't exist?
look, you're welcome to believe what you want, I don't care, most atheists don't care, as long as what you're doing doesn't impact ont he rights and freedoms of others to live according to their beliefs. However, I also consider it important that we ensure we hold as many true and as few false beliefs as we can, and the only way to do that is through investigation, and if you actually pay attention to the bible, and look at what's in there, there is some good stuff, I don't disagree on that, but there's far more bad stuff than good, and none of the good stuff requires religion or good to be good, it stands alone.“Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
*religion or go to be good. I wish these posts had an edit function
and alll thats without mentioning the complete lack of proof that god exists, and the complete lack of any proof that Jesus existed (there is none, no matter what creationists may claim).
I wonder also, all these people listing the bible, which version do they mean? I wonder how many mean the king james version, whcih was altered by King James in order to give royalty divinity, and changed the description of the holy city to match that of Edinburgh.
Rawr I hate this you cant edit and when I highlight something to change it it delets everything Im jsut going to message you.
