Lois’s answer to “Just finished "Assassins of Thasalon" for the second time. Thank you for a satisfying end/beginning…” > Likes and Comments
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Thanks. The followup would be, what if it were a child? Excepting the health hazards of the chaos, most children think their normal is "normal" and a child might actually develop with the demon and learn to shed the chaos instinctively the same way they learn to walk.
Considering the chaos potential of the average toddler, the parents might never know the difference...
A child receiving a blank demon (or any demon) would be an interesting case. The demon would almost certainly (but not invariably) be ascendant, but wouldn't have any more knowledge than its child-host -- an undirected bundle of impulses at first, which, as the pair assimilated, would necessarily take their direction, or perhaps content, from the child. Could be a very difficult mess!
L.
It is intriguing to think of someone growing up being a sorcerer and not knowing it. Like the people who find out in their 30s that they were never bad students or stupid, they are dyslexic.
Interesting thoughts. I will have to think on these ideas about kids and new demons. My imagination has been ponderring on the still open question of what might happen to a demon such as Desdemona in the future. I imagine the outputs of random demon blobs to be much like the Gods having bad gas after an unhealthy meal. They take in some sour or bad soul and essentially get gas. The bad soul gets leaked back into the world as this formless elemental, who has no life but the lives of others. Over time they learn from their hosts and become more individual like Desdemona, and eventually I imagine they become dense enough and 'good' enough to become a soul themselves again. Like some long process of redemption, with the bonus of imagining the bad guys become some kind of God Gas and getting farted out into the world LOL. Hilarious, and hopful, since they could one day become whole souls themselves again. I imagine the Bastard to be a very gassy kind of God, being in his nature to take in those rejected by the other Gods. I bet even the others have the occasional toot now and then though.
LOL! How frustrating for a demon to be ascendant in a baby. But potentially disastrous for the mental development of the child because of the inherent powers that a normal child would not have. Maybe the right parent (a saint of the Mother?) would be able to raise both the child and the demon properly.
I think if it was found to have occured in a baby they would just remove the demon with a saint of the Bastard. Perhaps if it happened with an older child and the demon was thought of as the "imaginary friend" who was always doing naughty things, then I could imagine it perhaps either going undetected for an extended period, or since the child would be old enough to have some sense of self apart from the demon that they might, with a nudge from the Bastard as occured in Penric's case, allow the child to retain the demon and they could grow together. It seems to me though there is some level of control or intention from the Gods as to where the demons go. Thus the string of events leading to Penric meeting Desdemona. So perhaps they move to keep demons from jumping to children, or perhaps demons areer naturally adverse to jumping to children just as they are of jumping to animals, since they are always trying to go larger/stronger/ higher complexity. Come to think of it, if Desdemona ended up in a child would she be 'tame' enough to disguise herself as an 'imaginiary friend' to avoid being given back to the Gods?
Considering the abundance of demons let loose after the curse was lifted from Chalion, some of the new ones might well have jumped to babies. And back in the Golden General's day -- Wasn't Joen only 4 years old when she was infested? (Hers was an old demon.)
@ Sandy...
That's possibly the most, er, original take on 5GU demonology I've yet encountered. But alas, my demons have more in common with Maxwell's than with bodily functions.
L.
@Lois, I admit it is an interpretation that may have been influenced by the copious amounts of time I have spent this past year with my pre-school aged son (Myself being a stay-at-home parent currently). The comparative lack of adult interactions may be allowing him to influence my concepts of whimsical imagination. I am not sure who or what you are reference when you mention Maxwell's demonology though. Do please fill me in if you can. Perhaps there is something I can go look up and read?
@ Sandy --
Wikipedia can explain Maxwell's demon better than I could:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell...
Ta, L.
@Lois That was a fascinating read, Thank you! Thinking it over though I wonder about the need for the 'demon' at all. My imaginaiton jumps to having a special film, perhaps a two layered film, between the two rooms that acts as a one way door depending on the speed of the molecules encountering it. Slower molecules could pass through from side A to B but not from B to A because of the film and faster molecules having the ability to break through from B to A but moving too quickly to be able to go from A to B. That would alleviate the need for some demon to measure speeds, observe, and operate a trap door. I am not sure if such a film might be currently possible, via chemical make up or perhaps by some molecular structural design. The hardest part would be making it so that no energy is lost in the crossing. But interesting to get lost in the possibilities. Going back to the idea of demons, I wonder if demon jumping could work something like that. It appears life cannot refuse a demon, so they can always pass whatever barrier to get into someone, but then they don't seem to be able to get out unless that person perishes, making for a kind of one way door that only falters at death. But I would have to do some re-reading to be sure that was the case and it isn't simply the demon's choice, ignorance, or laziness not to jump out of living creatuers. You have given me plenty of fodder for contemplation and I am enjoying it immensely. And perhaps in a more scientific direction lol. Although if one views Gods as bringing souls to be 'one' with them, or otherwise absorbing or combining with them, then I feel the digestive metaphor, albeit crass and inelegant, applies, perhaps surprisingly, aptly. Particularly if the Gods are growing and evolving along with the people. Food nurishes bodies and becomes the body and the best foods make for stronger better bodies. And bodies expell anything unwanted, unuseful, or undesirable. So it seems a small jump from the concept of releasing demons to expelling them. But I have run out of time to write and will go back to simply churning it around in the old brain a while. But Thanks again for the interesting read.
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Jun 15, 2021 08:56AM
Thanks. The followup would be, what if it were a child? Excepting the health hazards of the chaos, most children think their normal is "normal" and a child might actually develop with the demon and learn to shed the chaos instinctively the same way they learn to walk.
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Considering the chaos potential of the average toddler, the parents might never know the difference...
A child receiving a blank demon (or any demon) would be an interesting case. The demon would almost certainly (but not invariably) be ascendant, but wouldn't have any more knowledge than its child-host -- an undirected bundle of impulses at first, which, as the pair assimilated, would necessarily take their direction, or perhaps content, from the child. Could be a very difficult mess!L.
It is intriguing to think of someone growing up being a sorcerer and not knowing it. Like the people who find out in their 30s that they were never bad students or stupid, they are dyslexic.
Interesting thoughts. I will have to think on these ideas about kids and new demons. My imagination has been ponderring on the still open question of what might happen to a demon such as Desdemona in the future. I imagine the outputs of random demon blobs to be much like the Gods having bad gas after an unhealthy meal. They take in some sour or bad soul and essentially get gas. The bad soul gets leaked back into the world as this formless elemental, who has no life but the lives of others. Over time they learn from their hosts and become more individual like Desdemona, and eventually I imagine they become dense enough and 'good' enough to become a soul themselves again. Like some long process of redemption, with the bonus of imagining the bad guys become some kind of God Gas and getting farted out into the world LOL. Hilarious, and hopful, since they could one day become whole souls themselves again. I imagine the Bastard to be a very gassy kind of God, being in his nature to take in those rejected by the other Gods. I bet even the others have the occasional toot now and then though.
LOL! How frustrating for a demon to be ascendant in a baby. But potentially disastrous for the mental development of the child because of the inherent powers that a normal child would not have. Maybe the right parent (a saint of the Mother?) would be able to raise both the child and the demon properly.
I think if it was found to have occured in a baby they would just remove the demon with a saint of the Bastard. Perhaps if it happened with an older child and the demon was thought of as the "imaginary friend" who was always doing naughty things, then I could imagine it perhaps either going undetected for an extended period, or since the child would be old enough to have some sense of self apart from the demon that they might, with a nudge from the Bastard as occured in Penric's case, allow the child to retain the demon and they could grow together. It seems to me though there is some level of control or intention from the Gods as to where the demons go. Thus the string of events leading to Penric meeting Desdemona. So perhaps they move to keep demons from jumping to children, or perhaps demons areer naturally adverse to jumping to children just as they are of jumping to animals, since they are always trying to go larger/stronger/ higher complexity. Come to think of it, if Desdemona ended up in a child would she be 'tame' enough to disguise herself as an 'imaginiary friend' to avoid being given back to the Gods?
Considering the abundance of demons let loose after the curse was lifted from Chalion, some of the new ones might well have jumped to babies. And back in the Golden General's day -- Wasn't Joen only 4 years old when she was infested? (Hers was an old demon.)
@ Sandy...That's possibly the most, er, original take on 5GU demonology I've yet encountered. But alas, my demons have more in common with Maxwell's than with bodily functions.
L.
@Lois, I admit it is an interpretation that may have been influenced by the copious amounts of time I have spent this past year with my pre-school aged son (Myself being a stay-at-home parent currently). The comparative lack of adult interactions may be allowing him to influence my concepts of whimsical imagination. I am not sure who or what you are reference when you mention Maxwell's demonology though. Do please fill me in if you can. Perhaps there is something I can go look up and read?
@ Sandy --Wikipedia can explain Maxwell's demon better than I could:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell...
Ta, L.
@Lois That was a fascinating read, Thank you! Thinking it over though I wonder about the need for the 'demon' at all. My imaginaiton jumps to having a special film, perhaps a two layered film, between the two rooms that acts as a one way door depending on the speed of the molecules encountering it. Slower molecules could pass through from side A to B but not from B to A because of the film and faster molecules having the ability to break through from B to A but moving too quickly to be able to go from A to B. That would alleviate the need for some demon to measure speeds, observe, and operate a trap door. I am not sure if such a film might be currently possible, via chemical make up or perhaps by some molecular structural design. The hardest part would be making it so that no energy is lost in the crossing. But interesting to get lost in the possibilities. Going back to the idea of demons, I wonder if demon jumping could work something like that. It appears life cannot refuse a demon, so they can always pass whatever barrier to get into someone, but then they don't seem to be able to get out unless that person perishes, making for a kind of one way door that only falters at death. But I would have to do some re-reading to be sure that was the case and it isn't simply the demon's choice, ignorance, or laziness not to jump out of living creatuers. You have given me plenty of fodder for contemplation and I am enjoying it immensely. And perhaps in a more scientific direction lol. Although if one views Gods as bringing souls to be 'one' with them, or otherwise absorbing or combining with them, then I feel the digestive metaphor, albeit crass and inelegant, applies, perhaps surprisingly, aptly. Particularly if the Gods are growing and evolving along with the people. Food nurishes bodies and becomes the body and the best foods make for stronger better bodies. And bodies expell anything unwanted, unuseful, or undesirable. So it seems a small jump from the concept of releasing demons to expelling them. But I have run out of time to write and will go back to simply churning it around in the old brain a while. But Thanks again for the interesting read.
