Kim’s answer to “Do we know why Frederick was so pushed by his family to attend the Nazis school where he obviously …” > Likes and Comments
169 likes · Like
Wow! Thanks for your comment. It is powerful to learn history from people who were actually there. I agree with your thoughts on Hitler invading Germany first.
Kim, that is a profoundly insightful observation! Thank you!
Thank you...yes powerful to learn history from people who were actually there.
My Mom was also from Germany. She said the same thing too.
My mother was also a Berliner child. She was deported to the country with other children to keep them safe from the bombings of Berlin. Being in the Nazi Youth was not an option. Of the children in her school, only 50 returned alive.
Hitler did not invade Germany, the Germans voted for him - there was and is no excuse...for what happened after that. the powers that existed then and there ( military/ industrial/ personal ) supported what he was trying to do ( read his MEIN KAMPF ) for their own benefit and helped NAZI -ISM to define GERMANY then.
Sorry to disagree with the general sentiment here, but Aki von Roy is right. Hitler did not invade Germany.
My parents and grandparents are from Germany and Austria, I still live there and I know it's a story both Germans and Austrians like to tell themselves - in the past more than now.
Three of my four great-grandfathers died in World War II - two on the Eastern Front and one as his family fled as the Soviets advanced. One of them was a Nazi. I can imagine how difficult it must be for my grandparents to come to terms with that, since even I feel strange about the thought that one of my ancestors actively supported the horror that was Nazism; that two died fighting for a horrible cause (though they were not political Nazis).
After the war this was something almost all Germans and Austrians had to deal with and the - psychologically completely understandable - reaction by many was to convince themselves that they were either victims or completely ignorant of what had been going on.
But while it's true that there were many, many victims (especially among the young), for the majority of adult Germans and Austrians this is historically simply false. Nazism wasn't an evil outside power that befell Germany - it rose from the population. Hitler didn't invade Germany - he was elected. It wasn't until the very last years of the war that a majority of the population truly suffered from that regime.
It's true that Hitler Youth wasn't optional, but it's also true that many enjoyed the purpose and community of it (though, of course, your mothers may very well not have).
As for Frederick in the book, the Napola was an elite Nazi school - not just optional, but also very hard to get in (as is shown in the book), so very different from the Hitler Youth.
I thought Frederick's mother was a very insightful representation of how many (if not most) Germans most likely acted - they wanted the best possible life for themselves and their children (which in her case meant sending her son to an elite school), acted within the system and chose to turn a blind eye to the things they must have sensed to be wrong (so beautifully illustrated in the make-up she puts on her son's bruises without asking about them). I actually thought the chapters about Frederick and his family were one of the best elements of the book, because they rang so very true to me.
Hitler's Youth is different. They were in an elite school, not Hitler's Youth.
Thank you Aki Von Roy and Ela for your honesty. Those of you eager to give the Germans a way out, take a good hard look at the current situation in the United States. Anyone who cooperates with trump is doing what Germans did with Hitler. Be very careful how you rewrite history. I was a history major and I'm Jewish. Hitler was legally elected and Germans followed him with devotion. They didn't want to look at other, darker things about Nazism because their own lives improved under Hitler. For a bit anyway. I'm not saying every German was a Nazi (Look at the White Rose as a shining example) but many were. Not all knew about the massacre of Jews and other undesirables (gypsies, gays, enemies of the state, etc.) but most knew about Krystallnacht and had to have known when neighbors disappeared, and were content to not know what happened next. Ignorance of history and lack of desire to question the status quo are very dangerous!
I agree, and I also think the youth may have been too young and indoctrinated to understand until it was too late.
Absolutely Amanda. This also led to shame, embarrassment, confusion and likely anger and resentment among those youth. Which we are seeing now among many Trump voters.
WOW "The first country Hitler invaded was Germany" WOW, I never heard it put like that before but that could not be a truer statement! I had no idea Hitler Youth wasn't optional until I started reading more WWII and learned what Hitler Youth even was/is. I am currently reading "Lilac Girls" in which one of the characters was forced into it and after graduating medical school (where as a female she wasn't allowed to major in her passion which was Surgery and had to choose dermatology), she was employed as a Dr at Ravensbruck, where she is horrified to see her colleagues administering fatal injections. She thought she was being hired at a Re-Education camp but is forced to work there to provide for her mother after her father passes. It really makes you think. How terrifying it must have been to be forced to believe and act so despicable. Sure, we would all also "join" to save ourselves and mostly our families. I can't imagine the shame and resentment they must have felt. I would love to hear your mother's stories, How interesting.
My high school German teacher was a boy during the war, and he said the same: All the school children were rounded up and told that they were now members of Hitler Youth. They were made to march, drill, and wear the uniform. The threat was always that your family would be hurt if you rebelled or disobeyed. Once all the men were gone from his town to one of the fronts, the young boys were called out at night to man the anti-aircraft guns. He was eleven years old when a piece of shrapnel put one of his eyes out during an air raid.
I know I am a few years late. To Aki and Ela's comment, especially since Ela is apparently still in Germany/Austria. Hitler was NOT elected by the people but appointed by President Paul von Hindenburg! Before there was Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher. Franz von Papen (ex chancellor before Schleicher) who became Hitler's vice played games with Schleicher since that one planned on spitting the Nazi Party and overthrow Hindenburg. Hindenburg decided to nullify the threat by using Hitler. It is important to get history correct to prevent such events from happening again. Just because a story doesn't fit the dogma one created for themself doesn't mean that one is correct. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...
You ALWAYS have an option. Shame on ur mother and her and her parents choices, NO excuses. Not then, not today.
back to top
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Emily
(new)
Mar 02, 2015 11:51PM
Wow! Thanks for your comment. It is powerful to learn history from people who were actually there. I agree with your thoughts on Hitler invading Germany first.
reply
|
flag
Kim, that is a profoundly insightful observation! Thank you!
Thank you...yes powerful to learn history from people who were actually there.
My Mom was also from Germany. She said the same thing too.
My mother was also a Berliner child. She was deported to the country with other children to keep them safe from the bombings of Berlin. Being in the Nazi Youth was not an option. Of the children in her school, only 50 returned alive.
Hitler did not invade Germany, the Germans voted for him - there was and is no excuse...for what happened after that. the powers that existed then and there ( military/ industrial/ personal ) supported what he was trying to do ( read his MEIN KAMPF ) for their own benefit and helped NAZI -ISM to define GERMANY then.
Sorry to disagree with the general sentiment here, but Aki von Roy is right. Hitler did not invade Germany.My parents and grandparents are from Germany and Austria, I still live there and I know it's a story both Germans and Austrians like to tell themselves - in the past more than now.
Three of my four great-grandfathers died in World War II - two on the Eastern Front and one as his family fled as the Soviets advanced. One of them was a Nazi. I can imagine how difficult it must be for my grandparents to come to terms with that, since even I feel strange about the thought that one of my ancestors actively supported the horror that was Nazism; that two died fighting for a horrible cause (though they were not political Nazis).
After the war this was something almost all Germans and Austrians had to deal with and the - psychologically completely understandable - reaction by many was to convince themselves that they were either victims or completely ignorant of what had been going on.
But while it's true that there were many, many victims (especially among the young), for the majority of adult Germans and Austrians this is historically simply false. Nazism wasn't an evil outside power that befell Germany - it rose from the population. Hitler didn't invade Germany - he was elected. It wasn't until the very last years of the war that a majority of the population truly suffered from that regime.
It's true that Hitler Youth wasn't optional, but it's also true that many enjoyed the purpose and community of it (though, of course, your mothers may very well not have).
As for Frederick in the book, the Napola was an elite Nazi school - not just optional, but also very hard to get in (as is shown in the book), so very different from the Hitler Youth.
I thought Frederick's mother was a very insightful representation of how many (if not most) Germans most likely acted - they wanted the best possible life for themselves and their children (which in her case meant sending her son to an elite school), acted within the system and chose to turn a blind eye to the things they must have sensed to be wrong (so beautifully illustrated in the make-up she puts on her son's bruises without asking about them). I actually thought the chapters about Frederick and his family were one of the best elements of the book, because they rang so very true to me.
Hitler's Youth is different. They were in an elite school, not Hitler's Youth.
Thank you Aki Von Roy and Ela for your honesty. Those of you eager to give the Germans a way out, take a good hard look at the current situation in the United States. Anyone who cooperates with trump is doing what Germans did with Hitler. Be very careful how you rewrite history. I was a history major and I'm Jewish. Hitler was legally elected and Germans followed him with devotion. They didn't want to look at other, darker things about Nazism because their own lives improved under Hitler. For a bit anyway. I'm not saying every German was a Nazi (Look at the White Rose as a shining example) but many were. Not all knew about the massacre of Jews and other undesirables (gypsies, gays, enemies of the state, etc.) but most knew about Krystallnacht and had to have known when neighbors disappeared, and were content to not know what happened next. Ignorance of history and lack of desire to question the status quo are very dangerous!
I agree, and I also think the youth may have been too young and indoctrinated to understand until it was too late.
Absolutely Amanda. This also led to shame, embarrassment, confusion and likely anger and resentment among those youth. Which we are seeing now among many Trump voters.
WOW "The first country Hitler invaded was Germany" WOW, I never heard it put like that before but that could not be a truer statement! I had no idea Hitler Youth wasn't optional until I started reading more WWII and learned what Hitler Youth even was/is. I am currently reading "Lilac Girls" in which one of the characters was forced into it and after graduating medical school (where as a female she wasn't allowed to major in her passion which was Surgery and had to choose dermatology), she was employed as a Dr at Ravensbruck, where she is horrified to see her colleagues administering fatal injections. She thought she was being hired at a Re-Education camp but is forced to work there to provide for her mother after her father passes. It really makes you think. How terrifying it must have been to be forced to believe and act so despicable. Sure, we would all also "join" to save ourselves and mostly our families. I can't imagine the shame and resentment they must have felt. I would love to hear your mother's stories, How interesting.
My high school German teacher was a boy during the war, and he said the same: All the school children were rounded up and told that they were now members of Hitler Youth. They were made to march, drill, and wear the uniform. The threat was always that your family would be hurt if you rebelled or disobeyed. Once all the men were gone from his town to one of the fronts, the young boys were called out at night to man the anti-aircraft guns. He was eleven years old when a piece of shrapnel put one of his eyes out during an air raid.
I know I am a few years late. To Aki and Ela's comment, especially since Ela is apparently still in Germany/Austria. Hitler was NOT elected by the people but appointed by President Paul von Hindenburg! Before there was Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher. Franz von Papen (ex chancellor before Schleicher) who became Hitler's vice played games with Schleicher since that one planned on spitting the Nazi Party and overthrow Hindenburg. Hindenburg decided to nullify the threat by using Hitler. It is important to get history correct to prevent such events from happening again. Just because a story doesn't fit the dogma one created for themself doesn't mean that one is correct. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...
You ALWAYS have an option. Shame on ur mother and her and her parents choices, NO excuses. Not then, not today.
