Penelope’s answer to “You explained Jared/Tate needed grow which was why Aflame was set up in FA. Is growing, in this way…” > Likes and Comments
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Thank you!! I do sympathize with Jared, I just wondered how you felt the other characters would grow. I can' wait for Aflame, I'm excited to see Jared's side of it. I love your characters- I always forget they're fictional :) Jared's journey has been my favorite to see unfold.
I guess how do you truly love another when you can't stand yourself?
I definitely don't sympathize with Jared, he did not suffer at all for what he did to Tate, nor did he even grovel for all the horrible crap he put her through. The only way I could possibly appreciate his character is if he puts in ALOT of work to redeem himself to her in this new book. His reason for his harsh treatment of her in particular is pretty lame & has always rankled with me - making her the butt of everyone's jokes, playing vicious pranks on her, starting horrible rumours about her, ostracizing her & making her life hell, honestly, he needed to & still needs to do so much more to even try to makeup for those 3 plus years of bullying. I will read this book in the hopes that he finally gets some comeuppance and has to beg her to come back to him, because she's EARNED that from him. The way she almost immediately forgave him was so unrealistic & just very weak willed. So I will wait see. I do think the writing is very good but I need to see some grovelling and for Tate to have some backbone and not just cave to Jared. Fingers crossed.
See, I think Jared did suffer. He took his hatred of himself and transferred it to Tate, who he considered to be pure and all that is good. The psychological term is transference: we don't know the correct way to hurt ourselves, so we hurt someone we love. And that causes the greatest pain of all - to torture the one we love. "Because I am such a piece of shit, I must make you hate me so much that you could never forgive me. But Tate did forgive him. The summer with his father caused the first psychological break. The relationship caused the second - he never felt he was good enough for Tate. See, I work in the mental health field, and I see this frequently. It's a way of committing suicide without realizing what you're doing. My heart bleeds for people like Jared, because people aren't looking for Superman/Woman to love them. They just want people to love them back.
I did not see much of his "internal suffering" for inflicting all that torture on Tate. And self hate or not does not excuse what he did to another human being. I feel he did not do enough for causing all HER suffering & public humiliation for over 3 years. She could have done herself serious self harm to overcome what he was doing to HER but she took it all and it made her stronger. I admire her for that, but she let him off the hook way to easily. And he did have unconditional love from Tate because she did love him, before during and after all he did to her so he didn't have to look for love, he already had that from her. He CHOSE to act the way he did. He was weak and it was easier for him to bully Her. Too easy to excuse his long term behaviour and just let him off the hook. Anyway, we'll see what he has to say for himself in the next book. I want tof eel that he really earned Tate's love, she deserves that. I do not feel that yet. My thoughts anyway.
You could see the self loathing in Jared all through the books.. He had the horrific summer with his father and that caused PTSD. You don;t get to choose how to react to PTSD.People don't get the choice of how to psychologically adapt - the damaged mind does. For example, there are people who are suicidal who can never be helped. The self-destruct element in the brain switches on, and no matter how many people try to save the person, they are destined to die. This is I know from personal experience. I just suck at it. But one day I will suceed. It's been ordained in my head.
Jared didn't seem suicidal to me and he seemed to have a really good time with his mates and girls throughout the story. Sure in some brief moments he may have felt guilt, I would hope that he did, but in my opinion not enough, because he didn't stop. I STILL feel he owes Tate. She was his victim after all. These are my thoughts on the book. Agree to disagree.
I meant people in general as suicidal - I never included Jared.
Listen, I do therapy on people all day long. It's how I get a paycheck.:) So I'm positive I'm looking at this with a more clinical approach than you. This is where my job can interfere with my reading a book. I'm always like "Freud or Jung? Freud or Jung?"!
Yeah I get it but I'm reading it from a female and lay person point of view. In real life I might even agree with you, but hey this is one of my "book" boyfriends and I want him to do some justifiable grovelling to the woman he's supposed to love to at least attempt to make up for all his bullying, persecuting and womanising. She does deserve that. And I want her to have more of a backbone with him. In my opinion he has yet to earn her love properly. Saying sorry not good enough in this situation.
PS: Hasn't Freud been largely discounted these days lol
Lol, meant to say discredited not discounted but you know what I meant
Actually Freud has only been demoted from a god to a demi-god.
I wish more guys read these books and TALKED about them. I'm always the lone man out (literally).
It's their loss. As much as I rant about Jared's punishments etc. I really have enjoyed his & Tate's story, I think the writing is very engaging & keeps you interested throughout the whole story, unlike many books I end up skimming because they bore me, but I just like what I like in my "hero's".
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Zoe-anne
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Mar 16, 2015 05:04PM
Thank you!! I do sympathize with Jared, I just wondered how you felt the other characters would grow. I can' wait for Aflame, I'm excited to see Jared's side of it. I love your characters- I always forget they're fictional :) Jared's journey has been my favorite to see unfold.
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I guess how do you truly love another when you can't stand yourself?
I definitely don't sympathize with Jared, he did not suffer at all for what he did to Tate, nor did he even grovel for all the horrible crap he put her through. The only way I could possibly appreciate his character is if he puts in ALOT of work to redeem himself to her in this new book. His reason for his harsh treatment of her in particular is pretty lame & has always rankled with me - making her the butt of everyone's jokes, playing vicious pranks on her, starting horrible rumours about her, ostracizing her & making her life hell, honestly, he needed to & still needs to do so much more to even try to makeup for those 3 plus years of bullying. I will read this book in the hopes that he finally gets some comeuppance and has to beg her to come back to him, because she's EARNED that from him. The way she almost immediately forgave him was so unrealistic & just very weak willed. So I will wait see. I do think the writing is very good but I need to see some grovelling and for Tate to have some backbone and not just cave to Jared. Fingers crossed.
See, I think Jared did suffer. He took his hatred of himself and transferred it to Tate, who he considered to be pure and all that is good. The psychological term is transference: we don't know the correct way to hurt ourselves, so we hurt someone we love. And that causes the greatest pain of all - to torture the one we love. "Because I am such a piece of shit, I must make you hate me so much that you could never forgive me. But Tate did forgive him. The summer with his father caused the first psychological break. The relationship caused the second - he never felt he was good enough for Tate. See, I work in the mental health field, and I see this frequently. It's a way of committing suicide without realizing what you're doing. My heart bleeds for people like Jared, because people aren't looking for Superman/Woman to love them. They just want people to love them back.
I did not see much of his "internal suffering" for inflicting all that torture on Tate. And self hate or not does not excuse what he did to another human being. I feel he did not do enough for causing all HER suffering & public humiliation for over 3 years. She could have done herself serious self harm to overcome what he was doing to HER but she took it all and it made her stronger. I admire her for that, but she let him off the hook way to easily. And he did have unconditional love from Tate because she did love him, before during and after all he did to her so he didn't have to look for love, he already had that from her. He CHOSE to act the way he did. He was weak and it was easier for him to bully Her. Too easy to excuse his long term behaviour and just let him off the hook. Anyway, we'll see what he has to say for himself in the next book. I want tof eel that he really earned Tate's love, she deserves that. I do not feel that yet. My thoughts anyway.
You could see the self loathing in Jared all through the books.. He had the horrific summer with his father and that caused PTSD. You don;t get to choose how to react to PTSD.People don't get the choice of how to psychologically adapt - the damaged mind does. For example, there are people who are suicidal who can never be helped. The self-destruct element in the brain switches on, and no matter how many people try to save the person, they are destined to die. This is I know from personal experience. I just suck at it. But one day I will suceed. It's been ordained in my head.
Jared didn't seem suicidal to me and he seemed to have a really good time with his mates and girls throughout the story. Sure in some brief moments he may have felt guilt, I would hope that he did, but in my opinion not enough, because he didn't stop. I STILL feel he owes Tate. She was his victim after all. These are my thoughts on the book. Agree to disagree.
I meant people in general as suicidal - I never included Jared.Listen, I do therapy on people all day long. It's how I get a paycheck.:) So I'm positive I'm looking at this with a more clinical approach than you. This is where my job can interfere with my reading a book. I'm always like "Freud or Jung? Freud or Jung?"!
Yeah I get it but I'm reading it from a female and lay person point of view. In real life I might even agree with you, but hey this is one of my "book" boyfriends and I want him to do some justifiable grovelling to the woman he's supposed to love to at least attempt to make up for all his bullying, persecuting and womanising. She does deserve that. And I want her to have more of a backbone with him. In my opinion he has yet to earn her love properly. Saying sorry not good enough in this situation.PS: Hasn't Freud been largely discounted these days lol
Lol, meant to say discredited not discounted but you know what I meant
Actually Freud has only been demoted from a god to a demi-god.
I wish more guys read these books and TALKED about them. I'm always the lone man out (literally).
It's their loss. As much as I rant about Jared's punishments etc. I really have enjoyed his & Tate's story, I think the writing is very engaging & keeps you interested throughout the whole story, unlike many books I end up skimming because they bore me, but I just like what I like in my "hero's".
