Lois’s answer to “Has anyone ever approached you about adapting any of your work to film/television?” > Likes and Comments
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15 years ago, I tried to interest a producer in Chalion - a producer looking for a movie for a major star you might've liked back then. This was in a meeting they'd asked for, and also was before I took what turned into a years long hiatus, to raise kids as a single dad. For systemic reasons it's a miracle if Hollywood makes more than one good movie/year. Producers work for mega-corps and are usually motivated by money and fear. Stars, as much as we can love them, are seldom artists or even people of taste. The talent agent caricature we see over and over is too often on point. And even lit agents with lit rights to obscure (to Hollywood) fantasy and SF say no to interesting opportunities - I've witnessed this - because they'd rather do nothing and hope for a huge check and an ego boost from a studio backing a Villeneuve, Spielberg or Nolan than to take a chance on letting an independent artist with vision and dreams write a spec script and see if it flies.
Yeah, feature film adaptation seems unlikely for a multitude of reasons.
What I'd actually MUCH rather see is a TV miniseries or series, which seems to have a lot more and varied opportunity going on in these days of streaming. And (good) animation is not ruled out.
Ta, L.
To which I might add, the only works of mine which seem feature-filmable with any fidelity (hah, there's a fantasy) are the stand-alones Falling Free, The Spirit Ring, and, even less likely, Ethan of Athos, heh. I think Falling Free could work quite well animated, and The Spirit Ring calls out for the spiritual successor of Ray Harryhausen. But they aren't the big popular sellers, the latter of which are all series-embedded, better for TV.
Ta, L.
True. My take on Chalion was for two movies but a minseries opens up worlds of possibilities. Animated series a la Siliang even more since the costs are so low: no locations, no actors, no extras, no lighting, no grips, no AD, no craft services, no costume hair and make-up, no travel. I love working with actors but...I'm calling an animator director friend now. Ciao.
Problem with American media is the assumption that animation is for kids (requiring at least some young protags) and my books are not.
I suppose Thur and Fiametta are pretty young, and Iselle and Bergon. The even younger Teidez is less a protagonist than a pimple. But only the first two are central.
My take is that the ur-theme of the young is empowerment, and the ur-theme of the older is redemption. Media swings heavily to the first, and seems to have only a shallow idea of the second.
Ta, L.
Having seen and been disappointed with 3 of the most recent fantasy adaptations I shudder to think of what modern film makers would do with the Vorkosiverse or Chalion. Modern film seems to be firmly lodged in "gritty realism" that would completely eliminate the heart, wit and sublety of Lois' storytelling. For example, imagine the scene in Komarr where Miles finally enters the locked ship bay to release the prisoners without Miles' manic internal dialog. His hilarious internal burbling could never be properly captured on film with facial expressions alone. Although... I would kinda like to see his face when he confronts the kidnapprs and says "Not terroists?! Well you've managed to terrify me."
They have had some really good limited series shows, both live-action and animated, with each episode about an hour long, come out on streaming services like Netflix. I think that would be an ideal format for showcasing Lois's work. Many animations are adapted from graphic novels, so perhaps first would be a project to create a graphic novel version. Or the graphic novel could be spawned from an animated version. The good part of graphic novel's is the ability to preserve inner monologues, but many book-to animation adaptations do a good job of including them as well. The recent adaptation "My Happy Marriage" on Netflix springs to mind. It has a tremendous amount of inner dialogue.
Re: your last reply. You say the ur-themes of young and old are empowerment and redemption. I see those themes in your books. I think of youth's ur-theme being coming of age, ie the courage to be true to oneself, to discover how one will live one's life, and age's ur-theme being reinvention, ie being reborn to new purpose, new hope and love in autumn years. Which is of course a recapitulation of youth's theme: coming of older age, if you will, and discovering a new or renewed way to live one's life. Of course your urs and my urs can dance together. I'm not a voracious miniseries consumer but I see themes of young love + coming of age themes in Heartstopper and Queen Charlotte. The wonderful full-circle story of season 1 of Russian Doll is a sort of older youth or younger elder coming of age story. Also all those stories are relational: there is a central relationship. Movies like Lord of the Rings are relational too. At its heart: Frodo and Sam. But the rest of the Fellowship and the other characters all are in relationship to one another, the learn from one another. It is a road movie, which are all quest stories- the quest being, in Tolkein's clever twist, to get rid of something rather than to bring home a treasure. LOTR is also a coming of age movie, about Frodo and Aragorn each growing beyond themselves, each becoming men. And being forever changed. I am thinking as I write this. Call Me By Your Name was relational too. Ordinary People. Rear Window. Miles Vorkosigan is a moving target. Cordelia, Ivan, Mark, Gregor, Ivan and eventually Ekatarina, are they his main ongoing relationships? But none of them, until we get to E., is the central person who changes him, who he changes himself for.... Moving on in this one way spitball of a message (disgusting image, apologies): To sell a miniseries to a Netflix or an Amazon, it's almost required either to have talent ie a star attached, or a famous property like LOTR or Dune, or a story that's very razzle-dazzle with a theme those producers will recognize: love, humor, edge-of-your-seat constant thrills (you have those), rebirth, a friendship or a purpose or a love discovered, a climax that chokes you up. If a treatment of a proposed series can make the suits laugh and get excited and shed a tear or two, you've got them. I'm casting my mind across the years, remembering your wonderful books, wondering which one or ones might be a jumping in point. I guess I get to reread The Warrior's Apprentice.
And Lois has pointed out in previous answers to this question that much of the best stuff in the books are from INTERIOR monologs and observations that would be extremely difficult to bring to a film or tv show without boring over-narration.
:) -- creators of musical theater look for source material with much interior narration. Because what the characters can't say, they sing. But let's not go there.
I'm not convinced it could be done so well that I wouldn't hate it. I'm too emotionally attached to your series. I'm still angry about what they did to "We Bought a Zoo" and that was a true story.
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Oct 13, 2023 12:43PM
15 years ago, I tried to interest a producer in Chalion - a producer looking for a movie for a major star you might've liked back then. This was in a meeting they'd asked for, and also was before I took what turned into a years long hiatus, to raise kids as a single dad. For systemic reasons it's a miracle if Hollywood makes more than one good movie/year. Producers work for mega-corps and are usually motivated by money and fear. Stars, as much as we can love them, are seldom artists or even people of taste. The talent agent caricature we see over and over is too often on point. And even lit agents with lit rights to obscure (to Hollywood) fantasy and SF say no to interesting opportunities - I've witnessed this - because they'd rather do nothing and hope for a huge check and an ego boost from a studio backing a Villeneuve, Spielberg or Nolan than to take a chance on letting an independent artist with vision and dreams write a spec script and see if it flies.
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Yeah, feature film adaptation seems unlikely for a multitude of reasons.What I'd actually MUCH rather see is a TV miniseries or series, which seems to have a lot more and varied opportunity going on in these days of streaming. And (good) animation is not ruled out.
Ta, L.
To which I might add, the only works of mine which seem feature-filmable with any fidelity (hah, there's a fantasy) are the stand-alones Falling Free, The Spirit Ring, and, even less likely, Ethan of Athos, heh. I think Falling Free could work quite well animated, and The Spirit Ring calls out for the spiritual successor of Ray Harryhausen. But they aren't the big popular sellers, the latter of which are all series-embedded, better for TV.Ta, L.
True. My take on Chalion was for two movies but a minseries opens up worlds of possibilities. Animated series a la Siliang even more since the costs are so low: no locations, no actors, no extras, no lighting, no grips, no AD, no craft services, no costume hair and make-up, no travel. I love working with actors but...I'm calling an animator director friend now. Ciao.
Problem with American media is the assumption that animation is for kids (requiring at least some young protags) and my books are not.I suppose Thur and Fiametta are pretty young, and Iselle and Bergon. The even younger Teidez is less a protagonist than a pimple. But only the first two are central.
My take is that the ur-theme of the young is empowerment, and the ur-theme of the older is redemption. Media swings heavily to the first, and seems to have only a shallow idea of the second.
Ta, L.
Having seen and been disappointed with 3 of the most recent fantasy adaptations I shudder to think of what modern film makers would do with the Vorkosiverse or Chalion. Modern film seems to be firmly lodged in "gritty realism" that would completely eliminate the heart, wit and sublety of Lois' storytelling. For example, imagine the scene in Komarr where Miles finally enters the locked ship bay to release the prisoners without Miles' manic internal dialog. His hilarious internal burbling could never be properly captured on film with facial expressions alone. Although... I would kinda like to see his face when he confronts the kidnapprs and says "Not terroists?! Well you've managed to terrify me."
They have had some really good limited series shows, both live-action and animated, with each episode about an hour long, come out on streaming services like Netflix. I think that would be an ideal format for showcasing Lois's work. Many animations are adapted from graphic novels, so perhaps first would be a project to create a graphic novel version. Or the graphic novel could be spawned from an animated version. The good part of graphic novel's is the ability to preserve inner monologues, but many book-to animation adaptations do a good job of including them as well. The recent adaptation "My Happy Marriage" on Netflix springs to mind. It has a tremendous amount of inner dialogue.
Re: your last reply. You say the ur-themes of young and old are empowerment and redemption. I see those themes in your books. I think of youth's ur-theme being coming of age, ie the courage to be true to oneself, to discover how one will live one's life, and age's ur-theme being reinvention, ie being reborn to new purpose, new hope and love in autumn years. Which is of course a recapitulation of youth's theme: coming of older age, if you will, and discovering a new or renewed way to live one's life. Of course your urs and my urs can dance together. I'm not a voracious miniseries consumer but I see themes of young love + coming of age themes in Heartstopper and Queen Charlotte. The wonderful full-circle story of season 1 of Russian Doll is a sort of older youth or younger elder coming of age story. Also all those stories are relational: there is a central relationship. Movies like Lord of the Rings are relational too. At its heart: Frodo and Sam. But the rest of the Fellowship and the other characters all are in relationship to one another, the learn from one another. It is a road movie, which are all quest stories- the quest being, in Tolkein's clever twist, to get rid of something rather than to bring home a treasure. LOTR is also a coming of age movie, about Frodo and Aragorn each growing beyond themselves, each becoming men. And being forever changed. I am thinking as I write this. Call Me By Your Name was relational too. Ordinary People. Rear Window. Miles Vorkosigan is a moving target. Cordelia, Ivan, Mark, Gregor, Ivan and eventually Ekatarina, are they his main ongoing relationships? But none of them, until we get to E., is the central person who changes him, who he changes himself for.... Moving on in this one way spitball of a message (disgusting image, apologies): To sell a miniseries to a Netflix or an Amazon, it's almost required either to have talent ie a star attached, or a famous property like LOTR or Dune, or a story that's very razzle-dazzle with a theme those producers will recognize: love, humor, edge-of-your-seat constant thrills (you have those), rebirth, a friendship or a purpose or a love discovered, a climax that chokes you up. If a treatment of a proposed series can make the suits laugh and get excited and shed a tear or two, you've got them. I'm casting my mind across the years, remembering your wonderful books, wondering which one or ones might be a jumping in point. I guess I get to reread The Warrior's Apprentice.
And Lois has pointed out in previous answers to this question that much of the best stuff in the books are from INTERIOR monologs and observations that would be extremely difficult to bring to a film or tv show without boring over-narration.
:) -- creators of musical theater look for source material with much interior narration. Because what the characters can't say, they sing. But let's not go there.
I'm not convinced it could be done so well that I wouldn't hate it. I'm too emotionally attached to your series. I'm still angry about what they did to "We Bought a Zoo" and that was a true story.
