Skarlet’s Comments (group member since May 08, 2013)

Skarlet’s comments from the Tolkien's T.C.B.S group.

It's an intriguing story... the story of a boy who was orphaned at such a young age, found himself finally making a firm set of friends through school, his only stability, and then losing almost all those friends during the war to find himself alone yet again.

Yet, like all incredible artists and genius', it is the fabric of their experience that inspires their works of genius.
Author David N Elkins writes:
The same sensitivity that opens artists to Being also makes them vulnerable to the dark powers of non-Being. It is no accident that many creative people--including Dante, Pascal, Goethe, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Beethoven, Rilke, Blake, and Van Gogh--struggled with depression, anxiety, and despair. They paid a heavy price to wrest their gifts from the clutches of non-Being. But this is what true artists do: they make their own frayed lives the cable for the surges of power generated in the creative force fields of Being and non-Being.
Tolkiens works of genius came from exactly this!... and he spent a lifetime daring to confront the darkest and deepest thoughts and despairs of humanity that ultimately lead to the greatest light of courage and wonder

Ah its intriguing what you write about the female roles being portrayed in a larger and more powerful role in the films than in the books
In fact, if you were to go back and read the origins of the books pre the trilogy you will find that the female roles are huge!
Have a look at the discussion link: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
For me, I am waiting for PJ to make the movie about Beren and Luthien and how their love forged Middle Earth
Luthien was in fact modelled upon Tolkiens own wife, Edith, whom he loved in the same ardent manner as he described Berens love for Luthien
It was Luthien...the elf maiden... not Beren who defeated Sauron the enemy of Middle Earth!
And of course both Arwen and Aragorn were descended from Luthien

And yes... totally love the article about Boromir... lets discuss please!

The profundity of love between 2 elf maidens and 2 mortal men came to shape the foundations of Middle Earth....
A question that strikes the heart of us all is one that Tolkien plays upon beautifully within his works...
Can a love so powerful transcend time and inspire a person to fulfil his/hers destiny?
As we watch Lúthien forgo immortality in exchange for a mortal life with Beren, we witness a decision which ultimately leads to the destruction of the evil Lord Sauron twice in different ages. It is this profound love of Beren and Lúthien that inspires the tremendous love story of Aragorn with Arwen. Aragorn's personal torment as he laments Arwen's decision to forgo immortality in exchange for a mortal life with him plagues him until finally, when all seems lost it continues to inspire him to take up the position of King once more.

The Tale of Beren and Lúthien was regarded as the central part of his legendarium by Tolkien, inspired in fact by the relationship of Tolkien with his own wife, Edith. The marriage of Beren and Lúthien was the first of the three unions of a mortal Man and an Elf, of which came the Half-elven, those who had both elven and human ancestors.

Lúthien is a Telerin (Sindarin) princess, the only child of Elu Thingol, king of Doriath, and his queen, Melian the Maia. Lúthien's romance with the mortal man Beren is one of the greatest stories of the Elder Days and was considered the "chief" of the Silmarillion tales by Tolkien himself. Her character is revered even at the end of the Third Age and honoured still by the likes of Aragorn and various other peoples of Middle-earth. The legacy that Lúthien left behind can be most clearly seen throughout the later ages in those who stem from her ancestry, including the Royal Family of Númenor, being the line of Elros of which Arathorn and his son Aragorn were descended, and Elrond Half-elven who was Lúthien's great-grandson. She is described as the Morning Star of the Elves, a term meaning that she was the most beautiful of all her people at the height of their glory. In contrast, Lúthien's descendant Arwen is called Evenstar, the Evening Star of the Elves, meaning that her beauty reflects that of Lúthien Tinúviel. Lúthien is also first cousin once removed to Galadriel; as Galadriel's mother, Eärwen of Alqualondë, is the daughter of Thingol's brother.

Initially it was Beren who saw Lúthien dancing from afar under moonrise beside the Glades of Esgalduin in her father's forest. From the moment he saw her with his eyes he loved her, for she was the most beautiful of all Elves and Men, the fairest of all the Children of the World. Because of this he revealed himself in the shadows wishing to be near enough to Lúthien to touch her, but Daeron her companion, noticed Beren and believed him to be a wild animal. Thus he shouted for Lúthien to flee, but at first she stood there unmoving, as she had never experienced fear or pain in her life and was confused. Then she saw Beren's shadow and was disturbed, making her dash away quickly. But as she hid in the foliage Beren reached out and touched her arm. To this Lúthien ran away in shock, believing indeed it to be an animal stalking her in the woods. As a result he was unable to voice his love for her, since a chain was on his limbs and he was so enchanted by her loveliness. So instead he longed for her in his heart calling her Tinúviel, an Elvish (Sindarin) name which means "Daughter of Twilight" signifying Nightingale and searched for her. Then after a period of watching her from afar, it happened that one day in summer when Lúthien was dancing on a green hill surrounded by hemlocks, she started singing and the sheer beauty of her voice awakened Beren from his enchantment. Then he ran to her out of the shadows and again she turned and tried to escape in fright but he called to her crying "Tinúviel" since he did not know any other name for her, and when Lúthien gazed upon him for the first time she reciprocated his love and was thus chained with his curse and burdens. He kissed her on the lips, but she slipped away from him and he fell into a deep sleep of grief and bliss. But in his hour of despair, when he was groping to see the light of her countenance once more, she appeared before him, and in the Hidden Kingdom set her hand in his and cradled his head against her breast. From then on they met secretly and conducted a clandestine relationship, and none before or after were as happy as they were, walking through the woods together hand-in-hand.

This love was to begin a great journey together, one which would see Sauron, the enemy of Middle Earth, defeated at Lúthien's hands.

What irony that it falls to the love between Arwen, Lúthien's direct descendant, and Aragorn, a Númenor and so descendant of Lúthien too, to ensure the final defeat of Sauron and return the line of kings to Gondor.

Ah... it is a very interesting thing taking books to movie

I am an author and have spent a long time now working with, and studying screen writing... taking my own books to movies v soon.

I totally understand and empathise with the reader who feels that the books depth and breadth (and sometimes heart of the story) has not been conveyed as we have seen/perceived in the story of the book.... and this is the absolute beauty of a book! That, if written well, sets up a framework and storyworld for the reader to become utterly absorbed within, to form such incredible bonds with the characters so as to almost 'become them' and then create the story word for themselves as they are expertly 'lead' into the greatest realms that exist at the heart of the story... 'the readers own inner world of imagination and magic where all possibilities exist'

Alas, a film is a different beast altogether...
For a start, you have a tiny window of 'time' whereas in a book you have many hours/days worth of reading ...time to create and depict the many subtleties of the story world, characters and plot through the weaving of exquisite wording. So challenge no1 is how do you condense so much into so little...timewise...?
Challenge no 2 is that...whereas in a written story form, you can luxuriate in the thoughts wandering or gripping the mind of the character...weave a history or 'ghost of the story' at length to engage the readers empathies and set them up for whats to come, you have no such luxury on screen. Every single thing on screen has to be tangible, action based, immediate and symbolic. For example, you cannot have simply a character feeling a fear and constantly questioning themselves... there must be a tangible character or event 'enemy' that is trying to hunt down the hero/heroine and stop it from reaching its goal. Actually Christopher Nolan is a great director for doing this too!... he recognised the importance of symbology at the heart of human psyche and how it so powerfully effects us (The Dark Knight...batman...Batman uses his own greatest fear as the symbol of what he must become..therefore symbolising he is mastering/defeating his own fear and representing that as a symbol of hope to society/gotham city) Peter Jackson does the same, expertly using symbology throughout the movies to capture the heart of the greatest fear and then, simultaneously, the greatest hope...the ring for example!... and Frodo himself... and Strider... this is basic human psyche... we are most afraid of the enormity of who we really are, of our potential for greatness...
Challenge no 3: Within movie every character you introduce must have a ghost, a moral weakness, a quest, a character arc and go on a journey and transform..for better or worse.. basically every character introduced has a function which serves to depict the character arc of the main hero/heroine in a greater way for the audience to understand the entire point of the movie... that being the case, each character has to have a certain 'time' dedicated to it and, in movie terms, each character therefore has to be central to the development of the plot of the story or has to be dropped... so in Tolkiens work...though I too was sad when I first watched FOTR that so many characters were missing (the many rangers for example) I understand why Peter Jackson did this.....

And yes, Arwen's character was built more to the fore in the love story, less was portrayed for Éowyn, yet all of this was to serve the underlying plot...the quest of the fellowship to destroy evil forever and for love and valor to win out...the fate of the world lying in the hands of one so small being the perfect irony of the message Tolkien seemed to be trying to deliver... that we can all change the fate of the world howeve insignificant or important we 'perceive' ourself to be!

So for me, hats off to Peter Jackson for doing a superb job in taking one of the all time greatest stories (for me anyway), holding true to the essence of what it was about and to the fabulous mythologies, legends and mysteries it was relaying and creating a gripping way to bring a wonderful story to a far wider audience who would never otherwise have read LOTR

Lucinda wrote: "A special welcome also to A.K Luthienne, author of 'The Sacred Quest' trilogy!
As a moderator (Luthien) and friend of the fellowship, i wish her well on the qu..."

As we begin the quest together across Middle earth, regroup the many rangers lying low... those of the line of Anárion and the House of Eorl...draw forth the dwarfs of the ancient lands of Arda, the elves from their hidden kingdoms of Doriath and call upon the courage of the halflings of the shire may we explore new territory of magic and delight and continue Tolkiens exploration of all that lies 'hidden', 'mysterious', full of 'magic' and the true state of brotherhood...... woohoo