Martin’s Comments (group member since Jun 09, 2013)

Martin’s comments from the Ask Carol McGrath group.

Great discussion as always. It's astonishing how blood runs hot about the Norman Conquest even after all these years. It was probably the most fundamental shift in society these islands have ever experienced and the fall-out is still with us. For me the big change is that English society became split in two with a dominant aristocracy who viewed the population as being fundamentally different from them, with different language and culture. On average ten English lands were consolidated into one Norman holding. Many of wealthiest in England started in this way. Blue blood? Bad blood, I say. Just like when the Saxons invaded Britain, in fact.

I think that three of the richest people who ever lived were William and his friends, including Alan Rufus. The Normans were certainly world changers, Vikings with edge and sophistication. Glad that I only have to read and write about them. They'd scare me witless.

Zoe, do you happen to know when Robert of Mortain attempted a raid on Fougeres? I hope it's not as late as 1091 as I shall have to rewrite some of my current novel.

Martin

Thanks Kathleen.

And Harold's brother spent much of his life as a captive. I wonder what imprisonment was like for these high status people. Probably not a cell but would they have had any freedom of movement?

The astonishing thing is how so few Normans managed to rule the huge population of English who survived but who definitely became dispossessed in their own land. I think that ten English land holdings went to make up one Norman's. One of the great survivors was William's rival, Edgar Aetheling. He outlasted William and his son and appears to have died in his seventies.

An interesting fact which I'm researching is that many of the English were freed from captivity by William Rufus and went to Constantinople. It may be that the Emperor sent some of them to win back lands close to the Crimea and they set up a form of English colony there. Don't quote me on this, though, I'm still researching!

The Normans were masters of sea as well as land. William the Conqueror amassed a vast fleet to invade England. He also appears to have set sail at night which was risky. As you say, Carol, they travelled as far as the Mediterranean and eventually the Middle East, setting up Crusader kingdoms.

Travelling by sea was quicker than by land. In England, the only good roads were the decaying Roman ones. William would have used these and the old trackways. But he was not averse to trekking across the worst country. He crossed the Pennines in terrible weather and the speed at which he moved was one of the keys to his success.

I think they must have been very like Vikings but with a veneer of sophistication. They certainly made a lasting impact upon the world.

It's fascinating to see how much the Normans put their boot steps upon society. They make the Vikings look like pussy cats.

Carol wrote: "Oh and I am convinced re the elopement date and that the Anselm letters refer to the second Alain, Niall in my version."

It's clever to use the Breton version.

Carol wrote: "Oh now I have to read it, absolutely have to. You know there is new research suggesting he eloped with Gunnhild in the 1070s not later. She took up with his brother after his death in 1089. In my s..."

Carol wrote: "Oh now I have to read it, absolutely have to. You know there is new research suggesting he eloped with Gunnhild in the 1070s not later. She took up with his brother after his death in 1089. In my s..."

I think that an elopement date in the 1070's is more realistic. It was a time made for such acts and Alan would have been keen to have a high-status English wife. It's a pity that his successor was also called Alan. I have a lot of trouble choosing my characters' fictional names and it is made worse by the paucity of choices which the people of that time selected from. I think I shall call Alan Niger Alain to differentiate. Maud is another example of a very popular name.

Yes please do read my books. Reading yours gave me fresh perspectives and insights which is always helpful.

Count Alan is one of the arch-villains in my second book, 'Wasteland.' He benefited greatly from William's harrying of the north, ending up as one of the ten richest men who have ever lived. (I think William and Odo were 4th and 6th.)

It's a tribute to your book Carol that I rooted for some characters (I always think, would I like to spend a few hours in a bar with them) and loathed others. I wasn't keen on Queen Edith as you depicted her. Far too willing to comply with the changed order.

Ooh, on another note, does anyone know what the English and Normans would have called the resistors in the woods. The word silvatici sounds Latin to me.

I'm just glad that the women didn't wear the dreadful white masks which were popular in the 18th Century. Unless this is a myth of course. Did Anglo-Saxon men wear cosmetics or tattoos of any shape or form?

I guess that having your son as a prisoner of the man responsible for your husband's death did concentrate the mind rather. William fought his wars with every weapon in his arsenal.

It is fascinating how many interpretations we can give to the historic documents, including the tapestry. I am intrigued that although it was intended as a work of propaganda it was as you say, Carol, probably made by Englishwomen. Were they tempted to put in an alternative view at all? There do appear to be some fragments missing at the end. Were these excised at the command of Odo? Perhaps we should all write a book called Da Odo Code.