Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Ludo wrote: "Ruth wrote: "I think it is safe to say that reading Proust is an experience like no other. So, after reading such an transporting book, the question that remains is what to read next? Where do you ..."

I've recently read William Carter's biography of Proust and Proust short stories, but it's not the same as reading ISOLT.

Monsieur Proust is on my TBR list as well though.

In a letter to his potential publisher Proust explained his novel:

I don't know whether I told you that this book is a novel. At least it's from the novel form that it departs least. There is a person who narrates and who says I; there are a great many characters; they are 'prepared' in this first volume, in such a way that in the second they will do exactly the opposite of what one would have expected from the first. From the publisher's point of view, unfortunately, the first volume is much less narrative than the second. And from the point of view of composition, it is so complex that it only becomes clear much later when all the 'themes' have begun to coalesce.

At this stage Proust was thinking of the novel as a trilogy: Swann's Way, The Guermantes Way and Time Regained.

I preferred the way that the MKE version dealt with dialogue over the way that the Penguin edition dealt with it - however the Penguin version was closer to the original. So, it's interesting in Carter's bio to come across this passage where Proust is in the process of proof-reading (and constantly adding to) Swann's Way:

Proust became alarmed by the length of the first volume and proposed that the dialogue be incorporated into the text without breaks. Grasset reluctantly agreed to this, but Louis de Robert was horrified and thought the best solution was to print "Combray" separately in one volume of roughly normal length.

Proust got his way even though Grasset, his publisher, thought it looked 'ugly'. Proust, however liked the way that the dialogue became part of 'the flow of the text'. I still don't agree but it's interesting to see how the expediency of the situation forced him into making a stylistic change.

I've been reading this off and on for about a month now but it's only now (over halfway through the book) that Proust is embarking on writing ISOLT that it's really coming alive.

Dwayne wrote: "I certainly miss reading Proust, too! Are there any Reading Proust in 2015 groups we can eavesdrop on? : )"

Yes Dwayne, there's at least one 2015 group - see here. Some of us have already joined.

Ben wrote: "But the cherry on top is the tour for Proust in Paris, to be led by Prof Carter from 11-17 May for which I have booked:..."

Sounds like fun Ben! I hope you enjoy your trip.

And if you feel like posting any info, pics etc. here then feel free.

It suddenly struck me this weekend that I'm missing not reading Proust...I really must start the Carter bio....

I've just finished Proust's Way and since finishing ISOLT I've also read the Beckett book and Monsieur Proust's Library (with other reading in between) and I'm very underwhelmed with all these books about Proust and ISOLT. The Shattuck book is ok but I think I have a natural aversion to literary criticism. For some reason I thought some of these would be quite good though.

I'm still intending on reading the Carter bio though.

Clean socks, clean mind. :-)

Well, that young Marcel only appears in that scene I think. There's a younger actor that plays Marcel when he visits his uncle, but it's mostly Marcello Mazzarella as in the first screensave in message 7.

Dave wrote: "Am I the only dirty old man that highlights the naughty parts? Speaking of the little room beside the school room and under the roof; "...my place of refuge, doubtless because it was the only room ..."

YES! It is only you Dave! I'm sure that Marcel meant something quite innocent when he mentioned 'sensual pleasure'....such as....smelling flowers....or wearing some nice clean socks...or something...

Dave wrote: "Dave wrote: "Perhaps Swan in Love will be more fulfilling."

I didn't get a chance to check out the links you posted until today Marcelita but I did smile at the anchors. My interest is piqued, I n..."

Yes, that's a funny scene...and not from the novel either. John Malkovich plays Charlus excellently. It's worth watching. I need to get round to watching the others.

The film version of Phaedra may be worth checking out as well. You'll have to let us know how good it is Dave.

Interesting stuff, Dave. But in what way is your second reading affected by thinking of it as an old narrator? And do you read it solely as from an old narrator now? I mean, when we were first reading it there was some confusion at times as the narrator would inform us of things that would happen in the future but then the narrator would also inform us of conversations, thoughts etc. that he presumably would never have known.

I found my recent re-reading of Combray Part I interesting because there was a lot of 'time-shifting' and 'narrator-confusion' in it and it was fun trying make sense of it; and it did make more sense having finished the whole book. But I abandoned (or paused) my re-reading of Part II because I could remember more or less everything I was reading and the narrative was relatively straightforward. Do you 'only' notice the 'old narrator' in all the volumes in your second reading?

I find the 'narrator' issue in novels in general a bit of a problem but it's one I usually don't fret over too much. What I mean is we may be told that the narrator is an uneducated person and then the text is in a very literary style, or we'll be told that they're writing something from memory and we get word perfect conversations etc, etc. I usually assume it's just a device to get the narrative going.

Dave wrote: "The last scene in Swann's Way is also an Interior Monologue. I understand Proust wrote this scene as a conclusion to Swann's Way when publication considerations required a volume break here. I find..."

I know you and others have talked about a young narrator and older narrator - Shattuck also mentions this in Proust's Way - and although sometimes I was aware of it most of the time I wasn't. But this section at the end of Swann's Way is, IMO, an example of Proust 'breaking through' and commenting on proceedings. There are quite a few more examples throughout the novel and are more noticeable than the old/young narrator episodes as they're often out of sync with the rest of the text.

Dave wrote: "The Awakening Scene (I've found that that referring to parts of the book as a play is or precise) is the first interior monologues and one of my favorites. Sadly, it is given short shrift in most c..."

I think most general readers enjoy the opening few pages, the 'Awakening Scene', even if it's given 'short shrift' by the academics.

So are you saying that the opening pages are a sort of summary (in a way) of the whole novel? Or maybe a taster? I think you may have a point.

One of the things that struck me about the whole novel was how Marcel is ultimately disappointed as soon as he gets close to attaining whatever it was that he was trying to attain - usually a woman, Gilberte, Albertine, Mme de Guermantes, but also his social aspirations. This seems to be described in the opening pages when he describes waking up after dreaming of a woman's caresses:

And then, gradually, the memory of her would fade away, I had forgotten the girl of my dream.

I found this very sad on my first reading but, of course, I didn't know that this disappointment would play out repeatedly throughout the book.

Well, someone had to prop up the bar until the cavalry arrived. :-)

oops! Dave has just fallen off his barstool.

Ha ha. Thanks Marcelita. Your 'passing comments' will keep me busy for a while yet. My post-ISOLT reading will include looking at all the interesting links you've posted throughout the year.

It was a shame that there weren't more members that were there from beginning to end but everyone's input was appreciated.

I hope the 2015 group succeeds. It looks like it's an annual event now, doesn't it?

No problem Dave. I'm not sure what I'll make of JS.

Renato wrote: "I'd definitely be up for a group read! But probably only in the second semester.. would that be ok with you?

I'll read JS in English. My French is still way to basic and I'm not confident at all w..."

That's ok. I'm not in a rush to read it, it's just logged in my brain as a possible read for this year. I wonder if Dave will be up for it as well???

After Proust's Way (though maybe not straight after) will be the Carter bio, which I'm looking forward to.