Brad’s Comments (group member since Dec 27, 2008)

Brad’s comments from the The Importance of Reading Ernest group.

I will too. I may have to tape the moment and post it on you tube just so you can relive it vicariously.

That's my kind of evil, Gary.

I have heard a few things about Jake from a few "experts" (professors) in the field. The most common take is that Jake lost his penis in the war (much like the boy in Hemingway's short story who cut off his penis through shame), but kept his testicles (thus making it such a "funny" injury and heightening Jake "desire" for sexual gratification without the ability to consummate), while others suggest that there is a more direct link to the steer sequence and that Jake is a steer, a man with no testicles. While one feminist professor I had is convinced that he has no genitalia at all. I personally think the first group is closer to the truth because it seems to offer physiological backing for much of Jake's behaviour.

We'd love to have you lead the discussion, Michael. All you would need to do is start a few threads about different topics you think would make for good discussion, then prod the group into expanding on the comments that people make.

Great points all, Allison. It's so easy for people to overlook that Brett is as wounded emotionally by her WWI experiences as Jake is physically (and emotionally). The Sun Also Rises is a story of being wounded, at least to me, and I read the characters through that lens.

Any volunteers to lead our discussion this month? All you need to do is set up different topics of discussion, prod us along when the discussion peters out a bit, and make sure to let us know if a thread will contain spoilers or not.

I have actually always figured he was bisexual. He seemed to love both genders too much to be one or the other.

And for the record: I don't believe he was misogynist, nor do I think his portrayal of Brett was misogynist.

Are you suggesting that Ernest liked boys, Gary? ;)

I don't have the book at my fingertips, so there'll be no references, but Brett's role in the "downfall" of all the men, her apparent cruelty with Jake and Robert, her using of Jake after she's finished with the bullfighter.

Gary: hatred, mistrust or dislike of women. Essentially a woman hater. And many have suggested that Hemingway's portrayal of Brett falls into this category.

Leah: All excellent points, Leah. For me personally, having read Sun Also Rises once a year for years, I find it interesting that there are times when I read the book where I don't find Cohn at all annoying. In fact, I have, during certain readings, been pulling for him all the way, and found myself thinking everyone else around him treats him unfairly, almost as though Hemingway, somewhere in there, wants him to be sympathetic. Most times, though, he just pisses me off.

Is it okay if I say, "Good for the lions."?

That would be much fairer, John.

I used to live in the Rockies, and I would always get extremely pissed off when an animal, either a grizzly or a cougar, was put down after it attacked a human. Grizzly attacks were invariably because of stupid mistakes by hikers or roadside tourists trying to feed cubs, and there was a huge surge in mountain lion attacks along a brand new "jogging" trail in a growing mountain city center. We're stupid and the animal pays for being what it is -- wild and unpredictable.

I'm sure the life expectancy of a Matador would decrease severely in your open field bullfighting. Sounds good to me.

John wrote: "I eat meat. But I don't like the bullfights, or any fights where animals die for entertainment's sake. Yeah, I know they eat the remains afterward but it's still mostly done for voyeuristic pleasure...."

You make a good point, John, and my head agrees with you, but being a man of contradictions (and one willing to embrace them), I feel very different than my head dictates. I have never seen a bullfight live, but the filmed images I've seen have always captivated me. And while I've never hunted (long story), I would love to try it. So these elements of the story and Hemingway's life have never affected me negatively.

Newengland wrote: "I always liked the dialogue in this book. In many situations, one person is speaking in abstracts while another is speaking in concretes (such as the above)...."

Which is very much the way actual conversations between people often go, I find. So I am with you on the excellence of his dialogue, Newengland. It's always impressed me, even if some of the diction is so specific to its time that it sounds discordant to the ear. That final exchange between Jake and Brett is one of my favourite pieces of dialogue in all literature. Period.

And great point about the story's humour. Mike is particularly excellent comic relief later in the book too.

I forgot all about that promise. Isn't there a statute of limitations ;)

I can't claim to love them equally, for I reserve my true love for Hemingway, but I like Faulkner immensely, and I've read a huge chunk of his work.

Thanks for the link, Joy.

Can anyone remember an episode that had anything to do with Dickens. Cause I swear I remember something about that.

Indeed (and indeed).

You just read the book at your own pace, then come into our Sun Also Rises discussion thread, pick a topic and post whatever you want whenever you want. Just engage on your own terms Allie. I always mark certain threads with a spoiler warning in case there is someone who hasn't finished the book, thus avoiding annoying book wrecking comments.