Garret’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2015)

Garret’s comments from the Return of the Rogue Readers group.

Hogglesoom

My personal favorites of King, Ryan, as far as actual horror goes would be The Shining, It, Pet Sematary, and probably Needful Things, though The Dark Tower series by him is my favorite book series ever and definitely includes horror, though has blends of several genres.

Better late than never? I finally finished the novel this morning and it seems most everyone has touched on issues I also have feelings on, so I'll keep this as brief as I can, especially since I'm over a month late to the party.

As an avid Stephen King fan, and having read the large majority of his novels, this was nowhere near my top favorite. The horror is this story, to me, was the acts of men and women based on the reality of the presented human condition of wanting and seeking control of that which is either not understood (Aurora and Eve Black) or not possessed (Our Place being a land to start over without the patriarchy in place and the police force led by Frank "What a Bastard" Geary wanting Eve Black). The elder King has always had his horror revolve around the human condition in recent years (Under the Dome, Lisey's Story, and Duma Key come to mind) with elements of or outright supernatural events influencing the movement of the plot. Someone mentioned that this novel was almost more akin to fantasy than horror, and modern horror, at least more in the mainstream sense, tends to lean this way more often than not. The horror was not Eve Black and the Aurora sickness, though there was invoked horror imagery as a result, but more from how groups of humankind reacted and performed when faced with those supernatural elements.

As stated, this is not one of my favorite King works, and not even a favorite horror novel for me. I did enjoy it, but the best way I can relate to my feelings is reading this was like watching a middle episode in an enjoyed television series where all the right characters and tropes are in place, but nothing crucial happens to make a difference in the larger picture.

My one question to the group, if anyone checks this after almost 2 months of the thread being open, is did anyone else feel like the final segment of the novel, where Lila goes to the place of the Tree, praying to and for Eve to come back, and the moth landing on her hand was meant to have the same effect as the final scene in (and excuse my nerdiness and please avoid continuing reading for a spoiler of DC movies) Batman v Superman where the dirt on Clark's casket lifts up just before the credits roll?

August 5th is tight for my schedule with the younglings, but I will come out of my self-imposed exile to try to join in this month.

Amy, it is never revealed but I would guess it was either a shoggoth in its full form or potentially an Old One that was still alive directing the shoggoth. It's obviously up for debate as there is no real closure with it, but those would be my two best guesses, leaning heavier on the former.

For all: read a Lovecraft legend today that I didn't verify, but apparently Lovecraft lived on a steady diet of a single can of beans a day because he was so poor which resulted in his death from intestinal cancer. Rather morbid, of course, but interesting if true.

Ryan: I should make an amend to that list of authors as there were some from that same general period that would fall into that list with Lovecraft: Authur Machen, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard (most people know him from Conan the Barbarian), and even William Hope Hodgson (we read one of his in this club a while back). Each of these authors write around the same era of the Weird Tales fame, though I have yet to read any Clark Ashton Smith, and have only read a smattering of the other authors. That being said, the horror that I have read by these authors falls within that same line of style.

Jordan, I also wanted to add this to you: we now live in a society where blood and guts are somewhat of a norm for horror where the splashing of gore substitutes how a character may feel in instances of film and television. In Lovecraft's time, that time of horror was not written of in great detail and I think Lovecraft wrote about insanity as he did because the mind was the place that horror could be enacted on so graphically without being as taboo and still get acceptance letters for publication. His horror was just as intense and visceral as the latest bloodbath horror film, but he chose the mind to take on the horrors rather than the body. In the 1930s, he would have been locked up writing about hacked limbs and exploding chests, but was only considered unsuccessful for his journeys through tortured minds.

To Jordan: I think my answer goes somewhere along the lines of Ryan's statement about the character's point of view. Lovecraft wrote in an era where despite prolific writings in a short life, he was not necessarily honored until after his time because no one from that period knew what to make of his style and content. His life was spent living off of family and (I believe much older) wife, those people financing a career that was barely held together by submissions in pulp magazines like Weird Tales. The populace at that time didn't have that "advanced"of a twisted imagination of terror. Your question is why was his writing this way in the first place and my answer is an opinion that he happened to be the pioneer in this genre who was able to get away with it because he had nothing to lose. Someone had to create this style, or vision of horror, Lovecraft did it, but no one appreciated it until later because it was indeed a field of nightmares no one had stumbled upon before.

To Ryan: "The Call of Cthulhu" is the ultimate Cthulhu tale, but it is just one of the many he wrote that tied into that mythos. It's as good a place as any to start, and it will definitely heighten any of the others that you read afterward. As far as other authors within this scope, that's a tough one. My list of favorite horror authors include Lovecraft and Poe from days of yesteryear, and my modern favorites are Clive Barker, Stephen King, Robert McCammon, Richard Matheson, and even some of Dean Koontz's darker stuff. I would say all of them are masters at their particular brand of horror, and none of them necessarily put the horror before the story and I think that may be what you would like best about them.

As a long time Lovecraft fan, this was surprisingly my first time with this tale. I enjoyed it thoroughly, especially the use of atmosphere of "things behind the veil" that Lovecraft is so known for. To answer a question by Amy, the majority of Lovecraft does take place in the same universe, with mentions of the Necronomicon and Muskatonic University being present in many of his other stories, as well as a portion of them being related to the Cthulhu mythos. Like so many of those others, what worked for me in this novella was that connectedness to other writings as well as the subtlety of horror where characters know shit is getting real, and are often able to be just ahead of it, creating that sense of terror.

This story was a larger scope for the majority of Lovecraft's writing, with only two additional stories being considered novella length. That being said, there wasn't much filler presented in the story, as it is presented as a warning to future expeditions so any redundancies I was able to forgive with this in mind. I did rather enjoy the twist of horror that it was the shoggoths rather than the Old Ones that were the focus of the horror, though of course the Old Ones held their place of importance.

To Ryan, as a reader of this author, I definitely have some recommendations for you for further reading. "The Call of Cthulhu," "Shadow over Innsmouth," "Dunwich Horror," "Pickman's Model," and "The Colour Out of Space" are all ones that come to mind as some of my favorites.

Guest appearance by an old member! I am a huge Lovecraft fan, and like the great Cthulhu I have arisen from my death slumber to rejoin the world...though to discuss a great weird tale story versus destroying mankind. Happy Halloween, all, and may our Antarctic journey into the bizarre quench the need for a great Halloween story. Great pick, Ryan!

Well, because this app sucks, I'm not rewriting the elegance I just poured out and lost so I'll simple say this: it's voting time between the two choices of Ready Player One by Earnest Cline and American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Both have upcoming media soon so I figured now was as good of a time as any to present them here.

"Welcome back, Garret!" the group exclaimed as the brooding, near-forgotten form stumbled into the light.
Yes, I'm here and ready to discuss the first novel in what is my all-time favorite series in prose fiction.

To begin, I agree with you, Jordan. Roland is indeed portrayed as a man with no imagination (as his instructor states) which leads to him being almost slow witted in nature...until the fire fight begins. He is a killer, almost mechanical in nature, and oh so cold blooded. This simpleness makes his immediate hunt of the Man in Black and quest for the Dark Tower an absolute single mindedness in his thoughts that masks every other thought that could enter his mind. Roland is the quest, pure and simple.

As the first novel in an eight novel, one short story, and several comic issues long quest to the Tower, it sets the stage nicely for what is to come in the future. I will keep this spoiler free, but I do know that as this was my third time reading this novel that each time I remember why I hastened to read the next, and the next, and the next greedily until I've finished them. I look forward to hearing the thoughts, feelings and possible emotional outbursts that the first time readers in the group have.

There will be water if God wills it.

Jordan, I couldn't agree more with your review. As you seem to have touched on every point for each section that I agree with, I will offer up a few of my own favorite and least favorite parts of the story.

Overall, I enjoyed the atmosphere of the novel, as far as it being mostly a story about failed redemption concerning the flaws (apparently) inherent in mankind. Even those characters that I found myself enjoying ended in grisly deaths with no hope for completing their own personal missions. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy the "hobo" throughout each tale as he lended a hand in adding a bit of the supposed supernatural that I personally enjoy so much. The author never once tells us that his story is true, and if it is, he never found the messiah he was looking for.

The novel had a message that is shown as being bleak and dismal, showing humanity as never having a chance at anything other than its own destruction. While I agree with this point of view, this is where my review shows how I felt overall. I was not a fan of this story at all. Though parts of it I enjoyed, and again, agreed with heartily, I felt its execution was muddled and slapped together with more care on the religious aspects of the characters than making a flowing story that makes the reader want to continue. I, too, could not wait for the novel to end, which made me sad knowing it had won an award during its debut. The author wrote another novel within this universe (though it had to be finished by another author after his death before it could be finished), and I will say with certainty that I find another trip down this road so unappealing that I know I'll never pick it up. The novel had its moments of brightness, but the story overall was stuck to close together to its own development for me to give a high review.

Only two hours and five minutes left!

[Insert generic agreement comment here]

Thank goodness someone posted. I thought everyone else died and I was waiting for the Jungle Book Killer to find me next.

It was called "The Second Jungle Book"! I read my source incorrectly. Thanks, Amy. At the end of Mowgli's last story it said he eventually got married, but that that was another story altogether and it makes me wonder if it is in the sequel or was never actually written. I think I would have enjoyed the collection more if the stories had continued to center on him and his adventures, but perhaps I'm too harsh of a critic for these stories.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but especially after reading this, I would like to go see it. For those interested in this type of adventure, I would recommend Tarzan of the Apes for a good read in a similar vein with more adult themes. I'm a huge Burroughs fan, so I'm very partial, but the similarities between the stories go far enough for it to act like Mowgli's older brother.

I was personally unimpressed by these stories. I was interested in the ones involving Mowgli to a degree, but felt that the pacing was inconsistent with the payoff not reaching it's potential. The story of Rikki-Tikki-Tavi was probably my favorite only because it reminded me of happier, youthful days when I read it in school, with even the illustration in my copy being the same one I remembered from those giant compilation English books from our pasts. The rest of the stories I could have taken or left, with me agreeing with Danielle that my attention waned throughout the stories.

All of this being said, I still like that this collection exists because I can see why it would be considered a classic despite that it doesn't fit my own appreciation. There is a sequel by Kipling (aptly titled The Jungle Book 2), but unlike how I felt after reading Neverwhere, I have no interest at this time to seek out those other stories. One thing I tried to keep in mind with this collection is that they were written for children and that perhaps these children of another time would have had very different expectations than I do in my own life when approaching such material.

Was this read a waste of my time? Not at all. I am glad to have read them for the sake of reading them, but it is a world in which I probably will not find myself returning to.

Amy, in my edition there was a prologue that started just that way.

Jordan, it had to have been intentionally symbolic. The novel starts in the same way with him at a pub leaving a group and life behind him to start anew, and it was a direct reflection at the end of the same. In my own version of unseen futures for his life, I do see him taking that mantle and becoming someone that not just exists in London Below as his first adventure, but lives there as the real deal. This is, in my opinion, almost a different coming of age story set in a place of wonders where if you don't change and get weird and hard, you won't make it. From the beginning to the end, we see Richard make various changes, and if I was writing the sequel, you better believe he'd toughen up. He may never be a rough-as-stone soldier as we know, but he would change to become the Warrior as true to form as he can be. I don't think he'd travel the world hunting for sport like Hunter, but perhaps that's why he was dubbed differently, right?