Asta’s Comments (group member since Mar 15, 2013)

Asta’s comments from the EDCMOOC group.

I really enjoyed our virtual book club, although I was not able to participate every month.
I was looking forward to #edcmchats.
Thanks to you I read lots of great short stories and books. My favourites were short stories by Philip K. Dick, classics such as "Time Machine" by H.G.Wells, and I am particularly grateful for Daniel Keyes "Flowers for Algernon".

If anyone thinks this book club could and should be revived, count me in!
Thanks everyone, especially KC!

Asta

What happens when we keep our memories/photos/life records on electronic devices only? They might be easily erased or altered. When devices are replaced by new generation, what happens to records - does anybody transfer all their records/information from floppy disks or casettes or vcr tapes?
I have just read an arcticle on Harvard Business Review which reported a study about differences in taking notes on laptop versus old pen-and-paper. Recall depends on how the notes where taken. Also the contents of notes are qualitatively different.

p.s. tonight I am by a lake in a deep forest in Lithuania, the internet connection is somewhat patchy. I'll try to join twitter chat, but I am not sure I will be able to partcipate smoothly.

Kc, thanks for tweeting about the sequel "Not by Its Cover"! I felt that it is more mature than "Beyond Lies the Wub" (which is not surprising, given that it was his first published story), and more philosophical.

I liked the idea, but I think the writer is a philosopher first and a novelist second. He should have stuck with a short story, I felt the novel "lose its steam" in the second half.
I enjoyed reading it for all the insights and questions it brought out, but I found the style irritating (except for the first part of the trilogy). For example, I think it was not necessary to repeat whole chapters.

My verdict: great ideas, poor execution.

Some questions and suggestions for our twitter chat:

- "The mind is the only thing about human beings that's worth anything." Do you agree? Why?

- What would you miss most if you did not have a body? (became "amphibian")

- Are virtual worlds "amphibious"? e.g., in this twitter chat we communicate without bodies, simply exchange ideas produced by our minds
Are virtual worlds a step towards posthumanism?

- Do virtual worlds reduce/eliminate fear in a similar way that being amphibious does? For example, people usually have more courage online, they find it easy to start conversations with strangers, share their intimate thoughts, etc.

- Why did Vonnegut use the term "amphibious"?
What term would you suggest?
My ideas: ghost, souls, minds...

- Would love/family/friends have a place in an "amphibious" world?

I found this story closely related to #edcmooc topic on "redefining the human", or transhumanism/posthumanism.

Here are the passages I highlighted:
"He was and still is the sweetest person you'd ever want to know, but, back when he was stuck with that body, nobody got close enough to find out."
"As a matter of fact, it's a respectful thing to say that somebody is childish in certain ways, because it's people like that who seem to get all the big ideas."
"He was what we used to call absent-minded. Looking back now, of course, we say he was starting to be amphibious."
"Konigswasser was a mathematician, and he did all his living with his mind. The body he had to haul around with that wonderful mind was about as much use to him as a flatcar of scarp-iron."
"The mind is the only thing about human beings that's worth anything."
" "Trouble with the world", said Konigswasser, "isn't too many people - it's too many bodies." "
"He just thought bodies were a lot more trouble than they were worth."
"There got to be millions and finally more than a billion of us - invisible, insubstantial, indestructible, and, by golly, true to ourselves, no trouble to anybody, and not afraid of anything."
"Nobody but a saint could be really sympathetic or intelligent for more than a few minutes at a time in a body - or happy, either, except in short spurts."
"Or they'll talk about fear, which we used to call politics - job politics, social politics, government politics."
"That's the best part of being amphibious, next to not being afraid - people forgive you for whatever fool thing you might have done in a body."

The missing last bits mostly deal with God and religion.
For example, Grandmaster asks "what do they say about Adam's sin?". Sea-Captain's answer even includes the "Golden Rule" (Whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them).
He also talks that in this century there are more events than during the past 4000 years, more books are published than during the past 5000 years, etc. More on astrology/planets/constellations.
Sea-Captain says that citizens of the City of the Sun have already invented "the art of flying".
Then there is more talk on God, religion, and free will. Also on astrology - whether it is dangerous, whether it can be used to forecast.
There is also a bit on numerology, especially the significance of number 7.

I read this book in Lithuanian, translated from Latin.
I wanted to find one quote in English translation, but bizarrely could not locate it. I noticed that the English version (at least the one on Gutenberg.org) is missing about 10 pages in the end compared to my version.
How odd!

In what sense is this utopia? ("ideal society")

Is utopian society necessarily socialist/communist?
Can utopia be compatible with private property?

What did you find the most strange about this utopia?

What aspect of this utopia did you like best?

Tommaso Campanella wrote this book while being imprisoned for his heretic views. Do you notice any influence of his circumstances on the description of the "City of the Sun"?

How peculiar - I also highlighted the same passage as you, Chris and Kc!


My highlights from re-reading:

"If we only could suffer, she thought. That's what we lack, any real experience of suffering, because we can escape anything. Even this."

"It was, he knew, the meaning of the pain which attracted Mercer's followers.
The followers were suffering from something."

"Telepathic power and empathy are two versions of the same thing."


These empathy boxes reminded me of "Walking in My Shoes", a song by one of my favourite bands, Depeche Mode.
If you do not know it, here are the lyrics:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/depech...

I added several short stories/novelettes to our bookshelf.
Most of them are recent winners of either Hugo or Nebula awards ("Oscar" equivalents in science fiction).
I also remember that during one of our twitter chats someone mentioned the lack of female authors in our bookshelf. That is why most of the works I added this time are written by women.

What will we be reading in September for October 2014 #edcmchat? I have not been able to find a poll for that yet.

Several questions that I quickly brainstormed after reading the book:

What do you think about the ending? Is there an ending?

Which child did you like best? Why?

What is the function of Murray in the novel?

What do you think about the title, "White Noise"?

In order to bring the novel up to date, should we replace television with the Internet?

What do you think of death as a subject for fiction?

Just finished reading "White Noise".
I bought it as an e-book for my Kindle. It included extracts from first reviews (1986), as well as extracts from interviews with Don DeLillo.

Here are the passages I highlighted (too long for Twitter chat, so I post them here):

(Murray speaking during a visit to "THE MOST PHOTOGRAPHED BARN IN AMERICA"):
"Being here is a kind of spiritual surrender. We see only what the others see. The thousands who were here in the past, those who will come in the future. We've agreed to be part of a collective perception. This literally colors our vision. A religious experience in a way, like all tourism".

"For most people there are only two places in the world. Where they live and their TV set. If a thing happens on television, we have every right to find it fascinating, whatever it is".

"Where's the media?" she said.
"There is no media in Iron City."
"They went through all that for nothing?"

"Isn't death the boundary we need? Doesn't it give a precious texture to life, a sense of definition? You have to ask yourself whether anything you do in this life would have beauty and meaning without the knowledge you carry of a final line, a border or limit."

Great story!
It's a pity I was not able to participate in the chat (with a 1 month old baby, I was too sleep deprived).
I have just read your discussion - so many good insights and new questions.
Asimov is one of my favourite sci-fi authors, especially for his short stories!

What a great book! Finished it earlier today, just in time for our discussion.
Thanks a lot for bringing it to my attention!

Here are two quotes that I highlighted:

"Now I understand one of the important reasons for going to college and getting an education is to learn that the things you've believed in all your life aren't true, and that nothing is what it appears to be".

" "You've become cynical," said Nemur. "That's all this opportunity has meant to you. Your genius has destroyed your faith in the world and in your fellow men." "That's not completely true," I said softly. "But I've learned that intelligence alone doesn't mean a damned thing. Here in your university, intelligence, education, knowledge, have all become great idols. But I know now there's one thing you've all overlooked: intelligence and education that hasn't been tempered by human affection isn't worth a damn."

K, excellent insights and questions!
The first one (are they human) is very much edcmooc related!

I selected two quotes that are too long for Twitter, so I post them here.
They relate to K's second proposed question:
"Under the new conditions of perfect comfort and security, that restless energy, that with us is strength, would become weakness. Even in our own
time certain tendencies and desires, once necessary to survival, are a constant source of failure. Physical courage and the love of battle, for instance, are no great help - may even be hindrances - to a civilized man. And in a state of physical balance and security, power, intellectual as well as physical, would be out of place."
"It is a law of nature we overlook, that intellectual versatility is the compensation for change, danger, and trouble. An animal perfecty in harmony with its environment is a perfect mechanism. Nature never appeals to intelligence until habit and instinct are useless. There is no intelligence where there is no change and no need of change. Only those animals partake of intelligence that have to meet a huge variety of needs and dangers."

My question: do you think the chosen year in the future (802 701 AD) has any meaning? Or are they just random numbers?

Thanks for creating this group! I like the idea of EDCMOOC book club!
Open access books/journal articles and one read per month sound good!