Poll

I'm very surprised to see 'The Test' as a nomination! o.o

Can we get a justification for how "And the Wolf Shall Dwell" qualifies? There's no female character mentioned in the tagline blurb, and so far I haven't found any female characters in the excerpts at all besides one, who talks to no other women and is in no way a main character. The book doesn't even PASS the Bechdel test as far as I can tell. How is it providing us with any awesome female characters?

This is a book about men, written by a man, with a minor female character who "was assigned to Ops based on her sex appeal".

I'm sure that it's a great book and everything, but is this syndicate actually trying to accomplish something or not?

Thank you for your feedback Cara! You know, I was actually concerned with the nomination myself when I saw it. Luckily, Joni Dee reached out to me and with his clarification, the nomination made sense: "chapter 4 introduces Liz Shaw, a kickass MI6 agent who will work half the book against the male protagonist only to become the lead herself in the second part of the novel and replace Adam Grey who gets injured."

I agree, in what is posted, there are some questionable lines about her sexuality and plump lips, but I also hope that her refusal to settle down, her Black Widow tendencies and her presence (sad that this alone makes her somewhat of an anomaly) in a spy/thriller can throw the sexual tropes on their head and highlight her intelligence and training. I guess more chapters will tell...

I hope others will join in on this discussion because I think it is immensely important. I said from the beginning that this is a democracy, that any member can nominate, and the winner will be decided through a vote, but I do think that it is important to make sure that our priorities are aligned.

Also, I think that from the feedback I received on the comment thread and through DM on the Inkshares page, that a strong female LEAD is necessary to win our syndicate pick, not just a side character. Please, send thoughts or comment here or on Inkshares.

I'm not sure how much my input counts as I'm not a member of this syndicate, but I've been watching it because it's a syndicate I'd like to join once my budget allows for it.
Anyway, I've been dismayed watching the votes come in for most of the months thus far because it seems that the majority of the top nominations fail to reflect the spirit of the Bechdel test. Fortunately, the winners thus far have risen above that. But the fact that it appears to be a close call every time is concerning.
I think as a bare minimum requirement, the nominations should pass the Bechdel test in their given excerpts. They should also be free of sexist narrative, unless it's in the context of parody.

My two cents :)

Admittedly I was at awe with the support, and though I don't expect winning, It really puts me off comments such as Cara's.

Cara, have you thought of reaching out before you posted this? If you intend to read it ever - don't continue this message as there are spoilers now - have you even considered that a strong female, as I perceive her, can be written by a man? And a spy thriller even?
Would it be so bad to assume, that I, a man, have attributed a far better role for her than I was willing to show in my first 3 chapters.
For your guide, Liz Shaw is a women agent, acting as the mi6 tail of the duo at part I, getting her instructions from a dodgy mi6 director, while questioning her entire mission.
At the start of part II, An event that shakes up London will render Grey out of the novel till the last two chapters, and Liz shaw will change side and guide John instead of him. together they will push towards the climax of the novel and "save the day"... And no there are no sex scenes and he actually wants her, but in the epilogue we discover she turned him downs. Strong. Female. Not a "Bond girl" at all.

It is very easy to put something down without first asking or reaching out, but I guess that's where the saying never judge a book by its cover, literally, counts.
Take an example from Evan Graham who questioned the nomination and first reached out to ask, though I know he didn't vote for me, was honest enough to read chapter 4 and see for himself.
Saddened that I needed to revel my plot line to justify myself. But FYI - I asked nothing of this and you are welcomed to rally support towards someone else, J Danielle's book is very worthy!

Thanks.

Cara wrote: This is a book about men, written by a man, with a minor female character who "was assigned to Ops based on her sex appeal".


My wife is a qualified solicitor/lawyer in two countries, MBA, Ba in economics too, practically raising our 2.5 year old girl and 8month baby while I'm working, without our parents help (who don't leave in the UK). She is as strong female as you can possibly get - and she doesn't shout or argue, she is very pleasant and yes, she has sex appeal. I don't think it makes her any less of a strong woman because of it.

edit :
also please read the chapter in full, her skills and the fact that she's the best in what she does, are unchallenged in the rest of the text you did not quote. Turning in, it's 11pm in london, I'll chime back once the baby woke me up. I have also DM'ed Janna that in efforts to keep the peace I won't be offended if she revokes my nomination and restart the vote, thought admittedly I doubt ALL the women here share the same concerns you have so kindly risen. Good night.

I hesitated to join this discussion, but I cannot keep my mouth shut anymore. I understand that by even speaking during this discussion, it's going to look like I am fighting for my own book, but this has been bugging me for a few months now, and I have stayed silent. Now, yes, I have a personal stake in this, but so does every female author who joins this as a means of stepping out onto the stage with her book, that she has written to meet the needs of this syndicate, only to be over shadowed by other already successful authors, who are either men or new members, most of the time both!

From the moment I joined Bechdel in January I endeavored to write my story in a way that would make it WORTHY of being honored by this syndicate. To win Bechdel meant something to me- that I was breaking boundaries and fighting for the charges I wanted to see in fiction by being the change I wanted to see! To win would have been a mark that I was succeeding.

Now, I feel all we are doing every month is trying to justify the ways in which these nominated books- books riddled with the problems we want to abolish for female characters whose meeting of the standards is mediocre at best!- are actually okay to nominate.

I am also very concerned about how many male authors jump on board and suddenly their book is on the list. Now, I am certainly not insinuating that there are suspicious actions being taken, or that everyone here is out to nominate their own work- I certainly did not nominate Proxy, but I was proud to see it made the cut... but that's just it. There doesn't seem to be a cut, does there? Titles are haphazardly slapped into the discussion as if we are in a mad scramble and every single one of them is nominated. So, first, new people are nominating their own work, and then when the qualifiers are questioned there is an gut instinct to simply argue "No, no... it's okay, it's not sexist because reasons...", and suddenly everyone forgets the purpose of the syndicate.

If some serious changes are not invoked soon, such as keeping old nominations on the list until they win before new nominations are considered (or at least have a time period for circulation), more women authors are put before male authors, and that books whose face value can actually express their worthiness of breaking the Bechdel... I would seriously consider leaving and starting another syndicate with the REAL intention of honoring women writers, characters, and their stories.

Thank you for your consideration, Bechdel, and good luck to all the lady authors on the list.

My wife is a qualified solicitor/lawyer in two countries, MBA, Ba in economics too, practically raising our 2.5 year old girl and 8month baby while I'm working, without our parents help (who don't leave in the UK). She is a as strong female as you get - and she doesn't shout or argue, she is very pleasant and yes, she has sex appeal. I don't think it makes her any less of a strong woman because of it.

Joni Dee, how dare you. Being "pleasant" or "nice" are things men have been requiring of women since the beginning of time. Any time a women gets the slightest bit upset over something they slap her with the term "hysterical" simple because they believe that to be angry or sad or show any other emotion besides happiness is to go against her "nature".

This book syndicate has nothing to do with your wife or how you view her! Your entire argument is the equivalent of "It's okay for me to write black characters b/c I have a black friend."

Being strong is standing up when people like you steer out of their lane and tell us how they are right and we are wrong. Well, guess what buddy. I am a woman, and I am telling you right now that I am strong, and I am sexy, and I am loud, and I AM SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT! I also know a hell of a lot more about I want to see when I read a female character than you, based on 30 years of anecdotal evidence of actually BEING a woman

We are not mad b/c a man wrote a female character. We are mad that he came into our clubhouse and told us how our rules are wrong. We are mad b/c a man wrote a female character that is a two-dimensional sexual fantasy of what men want women to be, and came into the BECHDEL syndicate to tell us we don't know about female characters.

Sure, I think a man can write excellent female characters... I just don't personally think you have given me any evidence for why you are one of them.

I was curious about this, too. But I didn't say anything because I'm so new to the syndicate.

I understand that the female in And the Wolf Shall Dwell BECOMES the lead eventually (even if we haven't seen it, yet), but is it only because the male lead gets hurt and she's just "the next best choice?" That doesn't sit right with me. It still supports the idea that men should be our go-to heroes and women should jump in when the guy needs help.

I know I already nominated The Last Faoii but "Faoii" literally translates into "female warrior." And Devil's Call is about a woman being both a mother to her unborn child and a fighter avenging her husband (I know that her main strength is from a man or lack of one, but still that's amazing). Maybe I didn't understand the syndicate when I joined, but I kind of thought we were going to support books that will give our daughters someone to look up to and emulate from page one (and who just keep getting better as the story continues).

Thoughts?

Bekki wrote: "My wife is a qualified solicitor/lawyer in two countries, MBA, Ba in economics too, practically raising our 2.5 year old girl and 8month baby while I'm working, without our parents help (who don't ..."

I really have no way to answer this Bekki. I don't think I need to provide evidence that I've written anything that stands up to your criteria. If this is a democracy you are welcomed not to vote. If this is an junta (though I found no evidence it is one) then that's fine too.

I am sorry that you think my book is unworthy. And I have only given my wife as an example of a strong female that may not answer yours or Cara's criteria as such. I don't know you and I am not as quick to judge as you. I'm sure your book is excellent even if I won't like all parts of it.

Again, I have told Janna that has invited me to your club that she is welcomed to role out my nomination in order to appease you guys and I won't get offended. I just want to add that I did not nominate myself. And I only joined because I saw some support that I was not aware I had. They might be all wrong though...

Really going to bed now, will tune in to see part II of my crucifixion, later on.

Penny wrote: "I was curious about this, too. But I didn't say anything because I'm so new to the syndicate.

I understand that the female in And the Wolf Shall Dwell BECOMES the lead eventually (even if we haven..."

My plot line is much more complex than that Penny, his injury gets her to uncover the scheme, not to replace him... Hopefully u can pre order and read it in due time.

You don't think you need to provide evidence for why your book should meet our standards, when you all want us to shell out for your book... when we are literally voting on the qualifications of said book in a FEMINIST syndicate designed to uphold the values that we as male and female feminists hold dear?

I'm afraid that if we keep arguing we won't end up with a syndicate at all (either from people leaving or it being disbanded altogether). As it stands, I understand what both sides of the issue are saying, but maybe we have to trust that the other people who joined this syndicate joined it because they know what they want in a book, and they know the characters they want to support, so we have to trust the voting system for what it is. If a book wins and we don't believe it represents the heart of the syndicate then we might have to accept the fact that the majority does not agree with us on what the syndicate represents and go from there. But I'm not sure that tearing the group and its nominations apart here necessarily helps anyone.

Thanks, Janna. I'm glad we can have this discussion.

Joni, your offended dismay is a pretty standard reaction for any male ever questioned on anything. It is not surprising, but it's also not helpful. If you want to actually argue that your book is one of the best representations of women on Inkshares, you need to do more than say "How DARE you suggest I explain anything?!?!" You are an author and you should expect questions and critique in general. It's how putting your book out into the world works.

And no, you do not deserve automatic unquestioned faith from all of us in term of your treatment of female characters. The entire history of the universe makes it unlikely that any given man's book will advance feminism; we have learned to be skeptical from experience.

Yes, I have considered such things. In fact, I and many feminists have been considering these things for a very long time. You aren't the first man to write this exact plot. Male protagonist, competent female side character, they work together in the end. This is not revolutionary. It's not advancing anything. I'm sure your book is great. It seems pretty standard, from what I read (which is everything you've posted). I never said it's anti-feminist or anything. It's just... standard.

I'm not looking to help bestow 34 orders and a badge of approval on something that more or less fits with the standard faux girl power model of storytelling, where there's a whole crew of diverse men and one single woman side character who is sexy in all the right ways that make the male readers feel comfortable (whether or not she accepts the male character's advances - that doesn't matter). And no, of course being sexy isn't bad in and of itself. You have to allow more complex critique than that.

In so many stories for the last 10-15 years, there's always one competent female side character who's allowed to be a certain level of badass amidst 5 or 10 or 20 male characters. This is not progressive. This is not advancing female characters. This is maintaining the comfortable status quo that teaches us a 10:1 ratio of male:female characters is totally normal, and it's not what I'm looking to support in this syndicate.

I think in general we should only allow nominations of books we think are actually going to be some of the best representations of women. Our winner's badge should mean you can pick a book that bears it and know that you're not getting the same status-quo stuff that you'd find by blindly picking a book off the shelf.

I think we should absolutely only allow nominations of books with female protagonists. Other things, like the ratio of male:female characters, whether or not the book passes the Bechdel test or not, and whether or not the author is a woman should also be considered, but I don't think it's best to set down any absolutes on those because of all the creative ways books can be amazing without simple tests.

I guess I don't support a democracy for the syndicate, to be honest. It's too easy for a group of men, perhaps a future group of men's rights activists, to join and strong-arm their way into pasting feminist badges on laughably misogynist work. And it's too easy right now for lowest-expectations-wins, "at least it includes one female side character" voting to put forth books that are not the best that Inkshares has to offer in terms of strong female characters. They might not be the worst, sure - Joni's book is probably great! - but what are we even doing here if we're not trying to select the best strong female characters that we can???

Our badge is a reward for good, promising work that gives us strong female characters. Or, it's supposed to be. I needs to be for it to mean anything.

I have something to add here also, as a previous month nominee & winner.

If anyone needs to defend, critically, a strong female protagonist, they've already failed to create a strong female protagonist. Its not something that you need to explain, its not something up for debate. Either that character is, or is not, and if there's a question about that, then an author has failed to either or explain their creation or they have failed at making that creation what it was meant to be.

I actually don't think And the Wolf Shall Dwell should be on the list because its a major Inkshares project. Its already met Quill and will likely make 750 orders to go full publishing. It doesn't need the help that lesser known, but equally good, projects are starving for. My own StE, Pirates of Montana, and Devil's Call were & are all black sheep.

Why would we spend a lot of time disseminating whether or not And the Wolf Shall Dwell meets Syndicate requirements, when a smaller project like Devil's Call DOES and NEEDS the support?

Addendum: I actually like And the Wolf Shall Dwell, and pre-ordered. I also really like Devil's Call, and pre-ordered Dorn's book the moment it went live. So, this isn't personal, they're both good books.

Maybe we should not have a syndicate that says they stand for an ideal that truly means a great deal to me, and does another... or worse, nothing like they set out to do.

If a book wins and we don't believe it represents the heart of the syndicate then we might have to accept the fact that the majority does not agree with us on what the syndicate represents and go from there.

And, if you mean by "us", Tahani, that you agree with those of us who are upset, then thank you for you solidarity. But, remaining silent for the sake of not rocking the boat for fear of starting panic over a leak means we all drown when the ship goes down.

We want this to be a democracy, right? Then that means everyone has a right to their vote, and their opinion, even the ones dissenting from the majority. I'm fine with losing- hell, that's the ultimate form of building character and integrity when you're forced to pick yourself up out of the dirt, and try again. But, you're saying that just because I feel like dissenting, my dissent is in valid if it threatens the status quo, and that is not cool to me.

Isn't destroying the status quo the point of this syndicate? ... if not, then I apologize for misjudging the point and I will back away without further protest.

I've read all your posts and I think I misspoke earlier because, yeah. I want to support books with strong female LEADS and the authors who write them. So... I was wrong. Rock the boat, ladies (and men)! Stand up for what you believe this syndicate should stand for! I've spent too much of my life being silent because it was easier that way. And I think that's what the syndicate is trying to break away from, no?

Also, all of this inspired me to write a new blog post. So thanks for that. lol.

Well, this is going to be my last comment on the subject as I believe this has been dragged long enough.

Cara - what I said to Rebekka applies here as well. You do not have any monopoly on what's considered a strong female, even though you are a female. however, If this, as a syndicate decided to adopt guidelines such as she has to appear on chapter one, the author must be a woman, etc etc - that's within your prerogative. And I can decide whether I would like to stay a part of it or not. I think that by setting limitations you limit the vast influence that your cause will have, but you won't agree with me as well on this one, I suppose.

Discussion is a good thing, as well as criticsm, but I think that there's a way and a mean to do anything. using demagoguery and misquotes - does not do this cause any good, as well. That's just what I think though, maybe lesser opinion as I'm a male author with a very standard way of thinking.

I wish you all best of luck. Again, there would be no hard feelings if you decide to overthrow some of your fellow syndicate's votes (mostly female) and decide the Wolf a non runner. I'm fine with it, as I said earlier.

Thanks.

I too am a hanger on to the syndicate, because like Christine I haven't had the money to join yet. But as the first author chosen by the syndicate, it means a great deal to me.

I think at this point in the conversation it would be a good idea to have Janna clarify what her guidelines are for choosing a book for the syndicate. I think many of us assumed the Bechdel Test was being used as a base standard for nomination. From her comments and how nominations are working thusfar though it doesn't seem to be the case.

Janna can you please explain the process for choosing books for this syndicate, and for accepting nominations for each month? Is it only those that lobby that get their choice selected, and if so, by what measure do you decide which book wins? Is that solely by votes? How do you, as the syndicate owner, define a strong female character?

I think a revisit to the test is in order.

The Bechdel test (/ˈbɛkdəl/ bek-dəl) asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechd...

Now variations have been added but I believe the original intent wasn't to promote female authorship (a different but no less valid cause) but to promote a healthier treatment of women in all works of fiction regardless of medium. While I agree that women typically write more realistic female characters than men, there is an entire genre of books now dominated by female authors that I'd be very curious how many could actually pass this test. I digress.

My two cents: I like the idea of previously nominated books staying on the list with new ones being added. Janna can keep this list and curate it herself. This is her syndicate after all. She can manage a rotation of book that keeps previous nominees and new ones evenly balanced.

I dislike the trend among all the syndicates to shy away from already funded books. Several authors I've talked to have been pinging inkshares about having the badges their book earns stamped on the cover with an explanation page of the stamp inside. Limiting nominees to just getting attention for new books leaves out entire swathes of books that pass the Bechdel test but aren't considered because "they made it. They don't need our help." I didn't see (so maybe I need to go look again) anything about helping books make it. I thought this was about highlighting and championing books that pass the test and carry the spirit of that test. To give the world better stories that do not objectify women but show these readers real women doing real jobs and having real problems and none of that requires a man being present.

I know I have a book that this syndicate considered that passes both this test and the one highlighted below. But more importantly I want to be an author who passes these tests automatically in my head as I'm creating the story. To be able to create such deep meaningful characters without needing to remind myself.

And I want my story to show that itself without me having to advertise it.

Side note: Also interesting to another syndicate here is the Russo test in the derived tests section of that page.

I've wanted to join the syndicate so badly but haven't been able to so far because of money. It was nice to see Jump the Gun even mentioned here, though obviously it's, uh, less than successful. Next month, maybe.

I actually only came to say that my experience at Inkshares has been of a very male-dominated site - so many men having opinions, sometimes talking over me, often assuming I'm a dude unless specified, right down to payment options, and I'm not saying any of that is in any way malicious, but it is pervasive. Look at this thread, or even the member list of the syndicate itself.

I obviously have no right to speak on what the syndicate should do, but I think prioritizing female characters and female writers should be a core tenet. And I think that there should be clear guidelines - does the syndicate prefer supporting work that still needs to get to Quill or making sure the members definitely get those books they are paying for? Should a female lead be required? Should the syndicate give more voice to female authors? Should the available excerpts absolutely already at least pass the Bechdel test? (which as we all know is the very least a work should do, and yet, so rarely does.)

Let's be real here - I can't afford to join the syndicate, I don't have a credit card, my voice means nothing. My book is so obviously in last place that we don't even need to talk about that. But I think you do clearly need to talk about what it is you want to do with the syndicate and why you're doing it.

Janna, who will chime in first glance she gets I'm sure, clearly stated the purpose of the group. You can read it here.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

And on the inkshares syndicate page.

"This is the time for strong female leads! From Rey to Lisbeth, Imperator Furiosa to Precious - what makes a Katniss jump from a strong-willed 16-year-old to a cultural phenomena? This group will celebrate the few Ellen Ripleys hiding in the myriad Bella Swans. Let's find the most multi-faceted, unique and diverse female characters on Inkshares and help them become reality!"

And her description of the syndicate available to you if you go view the group on here expounds on that a bit more.

Rey and Furiosa are both co-leads. They're both well-developed characters with complex personalities, goals that do not involve getting a guy to like them, character arcs that don't feature romance plots, and well-demonstrated abilities to take action on their own rather than needing a guy to come save them. But, they do both share the spotlight with male characters.
I don't want to contribute to unrest, and I was planning on staying out of the argument, since I can see both sides and don't really want to contribute to divisiveness. The only thing I wanted to point out is that some stories don't really have a single protagonist, just by virtue of the kind of story they are. They may have two or three, each of them equally important. If we were to limit ourselves to only supporting stories that have one specific female character as the unquestionable focal point of the entire story, we would be excluding characters like Rey or Furiosa.
I do see a need for more female-led stories. That's why I wrote one. But I also see how having co-leads or even supporting female characters that are well-written, independent, and powerful also advances the cause.
I also recognize that, as a man, I can only speak to this issue from the outside, and my views and opinions can only count for so much. I can't do much about that, other than try to empathize and step outside of my own perspective as often as I can. Creating and supporting strong female characters is very important to me. I doubt it's as important to me as it is to any given woman, but it is a burden on my heart.

Brian, if you read that statement, especially the very last part of it, i would say that "help them become a reality" means supporting books that have not yet made quill. That is the mission statement, so clearly some of the books on this list fit the bill more than others.

Or would you disagree because it's not as categorically stated as it could be? Which is why i think making actual guidelines for nomination could be a good thing - especially considering that people who would like to join will do so based on that statement.

Hah, look at me getting all fired up. I'm sorry if i come across as combative but i care about supporting women so much and sometimes I can't help myself. :)

Well, all I can say is first, thank you everyone for a civil, enlightening and clarifying discussion. I think it says a lot about the people who believe in and care about creating strong female characters that this pretty hefty topic has been handled so well. (Also, I would have answered sooner, but I wanted to make sure everyone had weighed in before I gave my thoughts)

Secondly, I agree with most people here that there have to be qualifiers set in place for a story to become a nomination. I thought from the beginning that "breaking the Bechdel," not "barely coming close to passing" meant that the stories who win our badge have to not only pass, but with flying colors. And that the characters need to be strong, real and multi-faceted. And that they do not exist only in relation to a man or purely due to a lack of one. That they are women who we can look up to and our daughters can emulate. I think, at everyone's heart, we all agree on what kind of characters deserve our badge.

But, I have been very concerned with some nominations in the past, as well as the number of people who join for a vote and then drop out. I get emails every time someone joins AND when they exit, so I hate to say that this has happened at least 5 times. So, as I discussed with Cara privately, I have decided that going forward (after this vote because I do not think it fair to change rules once a vote has already started), there will be minimum requirements that a story MUST pass in order to be nominated.

As I would still like this to function as a democracy, I would really appreciate your feedback on creating these rules, but I am immovable on these two: 1) whatever sample chapters are available on Inkshares MUST pass the Bechdel test. And it needs to be more than a quick scene. We need to know that it is a clear forecast of things to come, not just a conversation thrown in just because. 2) there must be at LEAST one main female character. As to further requirements, please chime in and help me make them.

Next, I think it is important that I address the issue of which books should have preference (i.e. female authors, books that are new or need a boost to a major milestone like Quill or full publishing, or underdogs). I personally would like to leave this open. I think that a book that can stand on its own will do so, and even though there have been some troubling close calls, the winners so far have indeed been very worthy in my opinion. I think with the new required standards, this will also be much easier to ensure. As to male authors, I easily admit that I think women write women better, but, I do not want to continue the status quo's trend of exclusion, (of which women, writers of color and any other minority who wasn't a wealthy white male, have known for centuries). If a man can write a fully developed female character, good for him. But, I think that this is rare, especially on what I have seen on Inkshares (and hope will thus be a non-issue). I have been very impressed with how many men have become long-term members and who have contributed positively to this group and I would not like to penalize them because of anatomy, just as we have been for so very long.

All of this is of course, open to discussion. I have seen how some other Syndicates function and I personally do not want Breaking the Bechdel to turn into my simple executive decision each month. I am proud of the members we have drawn and apologize if I should have stepped in sooner to ensure that only the best examples of female characters earn our badge. I appreciate Joni Dee's decision to step down because of all of the dissent, but I also refuse to suddenly enforce rules that I did not set out in time. Fortunately for all, I have received several votes through DM and my email, and we have actually reached a tie by this, the 12th. SO I will be putting the new poll up now and I hope that our group will make the right decision for this month.

Going forward, I hope you will all feel comfortable reaching out to me at ANY time when you have a concern. I tried to make that known by offering my personal email on almost every comment I made and for asking for feedback, but I must have failed somehow because I see many people were just as concerned as I was and remaining silent. I appreciate Cara always coming to speak with me (very frankly and with passion that I respect immensely) in the past and each and every one of you for your thoughtful feedback during this discussion.

Let's move forward and only nominate the best of the best! If someone has made Quill, maybe we can save our nominations for their book for the week that it is published or something like that. I do think that we can strategize and make sure that we are nominating the books that need the push exactly when it is best for them and that we can agree on what we should be prioritizing and when. (I personally have always been a fan of the underdogs. For example, when Proxy and Devil's Call turned from draft to taking preorders, I immediately nominated them)

Lastly, I will no longer be accepting ANY self-nominations or promotions. Each month, I have been choosing two to three projects I believe showcase strong female characters with flying colors and then adding any members who self-nominated or offered someone else's. From now on, please have someone else nominate you so at least we will have had another set of eyes on the work before it is even put up for scrutiny to then possibly pass on to being nominated.

Thank you all again, and please, please, let me know what you like about all of what I said and what makes you want to kick me. I want to get this right because this cause is probably the nearest to my heart in the writing world.

Best,
Janna

Janna-- all of that was very well said. I agree with everything and especially one point: While I want to support female authors, I don't think that they should be considered before a man exclusively because of gender. We're fighting for equality, not for sexism on a different scale. If a man creates a wonderful book that breaks the Bechdel, then he deserves a nomination as much as any of us. Thank you for specifically mentioning that.

I look forward to seeing what the syndicate decides on for nomination rules. I agree that the main lead (or one of the leads) introduced within the excerpts provided should be female and three-dimensional (or as three-dimensional as you can get in an excerpt, obviously) without her existence being based on a man (or the lack of one). If we keep these ideals close to heart, I think we will help support some truly amazing pieces of work.

Also, for what it's worth, I like the idea of helping people get to at least their Quill goals if they're up against someone who has already reached some form of publication. Because if we can get some amazing female leads out there in the industry, then it should make it easier for the author of those leads to publish more works in the future, and that will help us support these ideals in the long run. That, however, might just be me and I understand if the syndicate chooses to go in a different direction.

Thanks for letting me voice my opinions. I know I'm new, but I'm really amazed at how welcoming and civil this group is. These are some really heavy issues, and we seem to be facing them well.

That's great to hear and makes me very excited about joining the syndicate once my financial situation has improved (probably sometime next year, if nothing else awful happens).

I do believe that men can write great female characters and also that women can fall in the same sexist tropes without realizing - we've all been raised in a culture of sexism, no matter who we are and where we're from.

Well said Janna.

My issue with asking someone else to nominate you is that I've been getting a large number of DM's and other tactics to get me to notice a book to nominate it in a specific syndicate. Maybe the nomination process can include that we have to DM you directly with a nomination, our explanation and whatever else would be pertinent info. Then the nominations are anonymous to the rest and you can better curate what is being nominated. I still believe strongly in that aspect: you founded this and asked us to join this cause. Implied in that is that you will curate what your syndicate puts to a vote. I don't think anyone will argue with that. It's a far cry better than how the Nomad syndicate is running (when Whitta is active in it) and choosing books.

I love the concept of pushing books to goals. But I think one mistake all of the Inkshares community is making is that they assume that Quill books have met their goal and fully funded books have 'made it' which is far from the truth. Those authors have made it only through the inkshares gauntlet. They haven't cracked out of this ecosystem into the wild. Those books need to be championed and noticed especially near release date. Keeping track of those books that pass the test, or exceed it if you want to put a qualifier on top of that, and nominating them the month before their release would place a digital copy in all of this syndicate's members' hands to prepare a review and boost that book featuring the female characters you want to champion on Amazon. Ask the authors who have "made it" and they'll all tell you it's an absolute slugfest to get ten reviews. Getting the necessary 60 or 100 to force Amazon's algorithm to feature that book is even harder.

As to the comment to me above regarding "bringing them to reality", just getting funded on inkshares does not mean said character is a reality yet. It's still months away from being released, sometimes more than a year.

I know I have said that the last comment was my final one on the matter but since the pitchforks and torches have been laid down I decided I will speak again.

I know where this vote is going to and I'm fine with that - J Danielle's book is great - I ordered it myself I think on the week when it started to fund. I did not come here to commandeer this syndicate like some comments may have insinuated, I didn't even nominate myself.

I am a male. I've written a book with three protagonists, one of who is a strong female who actually takes the most leading role from the middle of the book.
The reason I thought I was worthy the support I got here was that I think a role like Liz Shaw's is rare in spy thrillers which are often ruled by men.
Even the mighty John Le Carré, given the TV adaptation of the Night Manager that transformed the supporting lead from Leonard to Angela Burr (played by the amazing Olivia Colman) had said he wished he had made Burr a woman himself. He did not. I have.

This forum made me think a lot. Though I seem strong, some words here were hurtful. And when the arrows were pulled out, it did made me think about strong women and their role in current literature and in mine.
Is Liz strong enough? Should she appear in chapter 1? Is the remark of her sex appeal sexist? How do I make her better? I even set my mind to adding a chapter of her everyday life, like I've done with Grey (not John).

I already had the idea, that if I won, as a branch of olive - I'll ask you all to be beta readers of the novel and help me gain your perspective and suggestion to the book in a whole, and specifically to the women characters Liz Shaw an Katie Jones (supporting investigating reporter who uncovers the plot from the media side).

I hear the voices of giving precedent to a book not yet made quill. I think that supporting a book which has a shot at full inkshares is just as important and that's the way we do things in the syndicate I lead. Well said Brian - I see amazing books that you never even heard of since they were published 'Indy' much like quill. In our syndicate we only refrain from supporting books already in production though. But we are far smaller than you an our cause is a more genre oriented.

If you deem the novel unworthy to your cause and from next month this is going to be a syndicate of women by women for women writers only, then so be it - but I think you will be missing a chance of broadening your influence. Like Tahani said replacing one sexism with another is, well... Pointless.

If you do grant me the opportunity I will work with you and will take your suggestions and inputs very seriously, as I am prepared to do in any case should you care to discuss things with me au lieu than generalizing and finger pointing.

Many Thanks for the support from whoever gave it. And thanks to anyone willing to listen.

Jonathan

Joni: It seems you didn't catch everything Janna said in her post, so I highly suggest you reread that. She has never said this was a women-only syndicate and has reaffirmed that notion. If you are looking for feedback on your characters, I think there was some very solid critique in this thread from some incredibly astute female writers. Rather than policing their tone ("What you said to me was hurtful" etc), look at the criticism as an opportunity to strengthen your book as you say you are looking for readers to help you with this issue.

A great measure for a truly strong female character is to ask yourself "what would happen to this person if I changed it to a man?" How many of her actions are there simply in reaction to a male character? How many of her actions would change once you swapped her gender? Even better, if you removed all the men from the book, does the entire plot fall apart, or is she integral enough to the story that it can stand on her shoulders when she is making the decisions.

Strong characters have agency in their own lives. They make their own choices based on their moral codes and background, and have an affect on the world around them. Their strength is not in how violent they are or sexual, but in how integral they are to the plot of the story, and how authentic they are to the real life people outside the book they represent.

When you are building a strong female character, she should be in the story because she is important to it, rather than a device used to highlight the strengths of someone else or to advance the plot of another character.

I will respond in depth soon but cant at the moment...just have to say yes yes yes to Amanda's description of what constitutes a strong and real female character! I think even female writers, myself included, should always ask these questions of the characters we create! Well said