“Light is massless, immaterial and doesn’t experience space and time. Scientists agree that light exists.” Paul: “But surely light is in space and time. We can turn on a light, and there it is, in space and time. No?” Jack: “It’s an optical illusion. The mathematics of photons don’t lie. Light isn’t in spacetime. Spacetime is in light. Light isn’t moving through spacetime. Spacetime is moving through light. Matter moves through mind, just as a dream moves through the mind of the dreamer, and the mind of the dreamer does not move through the dream”