The Sword and Laser discussion

What is the least "fantasy" novel you've ever read that was still considered fantasy? I'm talking about fantasy that falls into different territories but couldn't be considered anything but fantasy in the long run. (Like The Dark Tower series. There are no elves or faries or anything of the sort, but it's still fantasy, right?). I wonder because I wrote a book myself, but I'm not sure how to categorize it as it doesn't follow any of the fantasy tropes. And it isn't slipstream. Can you think of any other books of the sort?

Depends on how one defines fantasy. I could make a solid argument that Star Wars is fantasy:

A young hero discovers he's special, embarks on journey of destiny guided by wise old wizard and other compatriots - the rogue (Han), comic relief (droids), defeats great evil to save the world. After overcoming several challenges and discovering previously untapped capabilities, he calls on inner power to defeat the main enemy.

No high fantasy races - orcs, elves, etc and everything LOOKS science-like, but the story follows myth tropes as does most high fantasy.

Rick wrote: "Depends on how one defines fantasy. I could make a solid argument that Star Wars is fantasy:

A young hero discovers he's special, embarks on journey of destiny guided by wise old wizard and other..."

I agree with that notion, but everybody I know calls it sci-fi. I keep telling them that sci-fi implies something scientifically conceivable in the future, but they don't believe me, but yes, you're right.

I'm not sure if it's the *least* "fantasy" book I've ever read - I'd have to think about that for a while. But, I recently read three books in The Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner, and they might fit into what you're referring to.

The Queen's Thief series is categorized as young-adult fantasy, and I never doubted while reading the books that they *were*, in fact, fantasy... but no, they don't have orcs, elves, other mythical creatures in them. There's also not really much (if any?) magic, either.

I would say The Dark Tower series, including all the other books that are related, such as The Talisman, one of my favorite stories ever and I realized was the first King book I had read that wasn't classically categorized as horror (which I suppose can be classified as dark fantasy).

Candace wrote: "I'm not sure if it's the *least* "fantasy" book I've ever read - I'd have to think about that for a while. But, I recently read three books in The Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner, and t..."

I'll have to check that out. Big fan of fantasy without orcs and elves. I'm also not to fond of the settings of kings and castles.

Leesa wrote: "I would say The Dark Tower series, including all the other books that are related, such as The Talisman, one of my favorite stories ever and I realized was the first King book I had read that wasn'..."

Yeah, King's books tend to veer into all kinds of sub-genres, which is why I guess so many people love him. He reaches a broad spectrum.

Game of Thrones is in my '1% Fantasy' shelf.

How do you figure Tamahome? Political intrigue in a medieval setting is a cornerstone of the fantasy genre. GoT is quintessential fantasy.

There's The Merchant Prince's series by Charles Stross, but maybe that doesn't count since apparently its classification as 'fantasy' was just a marketing move and the author considers it scifi. :)

To me, dragons are fantasy, not historical fiction. :)

I have read fantastical books which are usually not categorized as fantasy: One Hundred Years of Solitude The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle The Tin Drum
The fancy pants term is "Magic realism".

The Lions of al-Rassan

It's the Reconquista with the names changed. There are no supernatural elements in here that you wouldn't find in a historical novel.

Tamahome wrote: "To me, dragons are fantasy, not historical fiction. :)"

Dragons are definitely fantasy, but castles are not necessarily. It all depends. Game of Thrones is definitely fantasy. There's no magic (At least not in the early books. I haven't gotten through the whole series), but there's other stuff that makes it fantasy (Like the white walkers). It just doesn't go crazy with it.

Michael wrote: "I have read fantastical books which are usually not categorized as fantasy: One Hundred Years of Solitude The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle The Tin Drum
The fancy pants term is "Magic realism"."

Yes, Magical realism. But isn't it more specific as in, there are magical elements but the setting is somewhere specific on earth? What if the place resembles earth but is not a place that truly exists? Yeesh, there are so many sub-genres.

He [Terry Pratchett] describes himself as a man "who wears a leather jacket and says he writes fantasy and who believes he owes a debt to the science fiction/fantasy genre which he grew up out of, refuses to say he writes "magical realism" -- which is like a polite way of saying you write fantasy and is more acceptable to certain people -- and who, on the whole doesn't care that much. It's all stuff." http://januarymagazine.com/profiles/t...

Nice. Thanks for the link, brother.

Leesa wrote: "such as The Talisman, one of my favorite stories ever and I realized was the first King book I had read that wasn't classically categorized as horror "

I assume you've read the follow-up:
Black House?

Those were great books. I've read just about everything Dark Tower related he's wrote at this point.

I'd probably say a lot of King's stuff is borderline horror and another genre.

And in general, I'd say a lot of horror crosses into sci-fi realms for various monsters, etc. Horror fantasy is more common now with the rise of "Urban fantasy".

Michal wrote: "The Lions of al-Rassan

It's the Reconquista with the names changed. There are no supernatural elements in here that you wouldn't find in a historical novel."

^^^^this. A second moon did not turn it into a fantasy...

Probably Gormenghast. I've heard it called a 'fantasy of manners', which seems fitting. Fantasy stories that aren't particularly fantastic often end up being more interesting to me than the more spectacular fare--stories that explore the more mundane aspects of life in a fantasy world.

The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. He writes historical fiction and this was his King Arthur rewrite. He makes it seem very realistic and leaves Merlin's magic seem to be either very subtle or smoke and mirrors by a very intelligent illusionist. It's my favorite Arthurian telling. Reread them every few years.

I love Cornwell's Arthur stories.

One could say that The Pillars of the Earth and its sequel, World Without End could be considered fantasy. even though its historical fiction.

From what little I've observed thus far, a number of titles get shelved at Amazon as fantasy that most folks would probably not think of as such. One example, some of Charlene Harris's Sookie Stackhouse novels can be found listed high in the Science Fiction and Fantasy/Fantasy sections. And she's not the only one, Laurell K. Hamilton's work can be found there too.

I'm sure novels of this type would most often be subcategoriezed by readers as 'dark fantasy', which I've yet been able to find as a genuine Amazon bracket (as in "books>science fiction and fantasy>dark fantasy").

I had to deal with the categorization issue myself on my most recent novel, Rich. I tagged mine as fantasy, dark fantasy, and horror, but when I had to pick one specific subgenre designation on Amazon, I went with 'fantasy' (since 'dark fantasy' was not listed as an option). While I didn't feel truly comfortable with the designation, it came closer for me than any of the alternative options.

It's been a long time since I read them, but I don't recall a lot of overtly fantastic elements in E.R. Eddison's Zimiamvia: A Trilogy.