Old Books, New Readers discussion

I was just reading on the other thread about how 'The Yellow Wallpaper' may have changed the treatment of mental illness. It reminded me of 'Black Beauty' by Anna Sewell, and how that book is supposed to have changed the treatment of horses in its equivalent modern day. Then I wondered, what other books changed the social landscape of their historical time period? Many have tried; which ones would you say are clearly social awakeners?

Without question, UNCLE TOM'S CABIN by Harriet Beecher Stowe. She wrote it to make the emotional case for anti-slavery. It was wildly popular, a monster best-seller, and was dramatized and performed for years. A case can be made that without this book there would never have been enough Northern support for the Civil War. When Stowe went to the White House, it is said that Abraham Lincoln shook her hand and remarked, "So this is the little lady who started such a great big war."

Also, JANE EYRE created a huge scandal about creepy boarding schools for marginalized children. Many of the works of Dickens were specifically addressed to the evils of his time -- BLEAK HOUSE to the worthlessness of the civil courts, NICHOLAS NICKELBY and DAVID COPPERFIELD to horrible schools.

Let's not forget To Kill A Mockingbird(influenced tremendously my views on race); One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest (behaviorism and psychiatric institutions); Farewell To The Master which became The Day the Earth Stood still or The War of the Worlds (our view of humankind and its place in the universe); maybe Slaughterhouse Five (about war); Shindler's List? Black Like Me; Invisible Man and so many more. "Words are of course the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling

Great topic Lora, I'm afraid I can't add mcuh as I can't think of a world changing book except maybe George Orwells Animal Farm.

Aine wrote: "Let's not forget To Kill A Mockingbird(influenced tremendously my views on race); One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest (behaviorism and psychiatric institutions); Farewell To The Master which became The..."

Agree with this!
But how about some best seller books, but not necessarily really qualified? Or sometimes a few books that overrated? Is it includes books that changed things?

Don't all great books fulfill this role to some extent? But how many of them actually 'shape' things, as opposed to 'go with the flow' - in other words, how many actually initiate change, and how many just appear at the right moment in a time of change? Maybe it's when an already admired author writes upon a certain subject; boldy goes, as it were, where no writer has gone before? Hardy's 'Jude the Obscure' so outraged the critics he stopped writing books for fourteen years, but it set the world thinking (and perhaps it should do the same again today, if there was a social conscience anymore). Huxley's 'Brave New World' confronted its generation with a nightmare which is, quite frighteningly, coming true. But how far did Orwell's 'Animal Farm' instigate polical thought, or did it merely reflect the Zeitgeist at the time? With a completely scattergun approach, how about 'Oliver Twist' or, from another generation, 'The Grapes of Wrath'?

Those have been many of my same thoughts as well. I decided I would look at historical situations, ones we've processed fairly well as a race. Many of the more recent ones are still being hashed out, wouldn't you say? So, yes, each title listed may have done something. How much of a difference each makes, well, I'm the last person to start making formulas to analyze this stuff to death- I just wanna read, or talk about reading! You folks are listing good arguments for different titles.
I like your point there, Frederick- the difference between reflecting the culture and making the culture. I wonder if the age a person is when they encounter a perticular book may affect them at different levels. But society in the majority? Yes, we come up against that reflection/creation coin again. Time tends to make this distinction clearer, as far as I have observed.
Here's another question: what sci-fi could be argued to have changed society? Books, not TV/movies, unless you really, really, really must, lol.
And any other genres are still welcome!

Aine wrote: "Let's not forget To Kill A Mockingbird(influenced tremendously my views on race); One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest (behaviorism and psychiatric institutions); Farewell To The Master which became The..."

I definitely agree with you on To Kill a Mockingbird. It is probably the most ground-breaking book of the 20th century. Almost everyone (even if ya haven't read it) knows of the court scenes showing the prejudices against Af. Am. back then.

by Jonathan Swift was pretty intense. It's not a novel or even a short story. It's about 10-15 pages long and is a satire proposing to solve the country's problems (i forget which country) by eating babies. He goes into details describing what a great idea this is. It was his way of getting people to actually think rationally about the underlying problems. You'll be completely repulsed and be wondering "wtf is this?" but that is the point. He had to shock them first. It's full of irony. I recommend everyone to read it (you can find it on google). It should only take you 20 mins if that.

Also by Henrik Ibsen was very ground breaking for women's rights. The play didn't end perfectly like some many plays before this. In fact, most theatres forced Ibsen to write a new ending or they wouldn't show it all (I'm not gonna spoil what happened for those who want to read it). In the story it shows how women were treated like decorations never to be taken seriously in the Victoria Era. Always inferior to their husband. Nora, the main character, is treated like a child by her husband. She flirts like a teenage not a woman who has been married for 10+ years. Read it yall.

Lora: 'what sci-fi could be argued to have changed society?'

Coming back to this at rather a late stage, I confess, but this is a dascinating subject: most sci-fi has to reflect contemporary thought, doesn't it, rather than shape it. We have always dreamed of going to the stars, and ever since air travel became the norm, we've been mildly obsessed with UFO's and aliens. But altered society? Did a book elevate our dreams from the Wright Brothers to the stars?

The only truly thought-provoking sci-fi writer to my mind was Arthur C. Clarke, and I suppose '2001 - A Space Odyssey' might have broadened the narrowness of our view of existence: but intiated actual change? Probably not.

Frederick wrote: "Lora: 'what sci-fi could be argued to have changed society?'

Coming back to this at rather a late stage, I confess, but this is a dascinating subject: most sci-fi has to reflect contemporary thou..."

As far as sci-fi goes I don't think it affected our society but rather our science. Think about it, almost everyday something is being discovered that troupes sci-fi both in literature and pop culture. Remember how on the Jetsons Mr. Jetson talked to his boss on a big computer? Well now we have Skype and can use it virtually anywhere in the world! In the star trek tv series they used this device that was essentially a prehistoric cell. Now we have tiny hand-held computers we can ask questions to!

That's true - aside from space travel (so far!)and possibly robotics, human achievement has gone beyond the sci-fi writers of past generations wildest dreams. I'm trying to think, for example, of the author who predicted wi-fi!

I think our society can not be separated from our science. I think we reflect on our present and understand our past in order to have a broader spectrum of options for the future. That's why sci-fi was renamed 'speculative fiction'- it was written in the past, reflected on their present, and predicted the future. Someone like Ray Bradbury wrote tons of cautionary tales rejoicing in humanity and technology while warning us that technology could go zipping right past our slower moving, more careful moral thought like a sugar frenzied toddler past a visiting aunt. In a story like "The Veldt", written in 1950, he not only foresaw a house with computer virtual technology built right into the walls, but how that technology could pit parents against children (with the children having the techno-upper-hand).
In Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" I nearly had my heart torn out of my chest when the main character catches a frog, takes it home, and finds out it isn't real. I grew up roaming wild, catching frogs, eating wild fruit! In this new era, I have to pry my children from their computers with a crowbar and throw them outside. They blink a bit and remember what it was like to be physical entities. But most of the time they are the only children roaming loose in the neighborhood. In fact, many adults react to 'loose children' the way they would to 'wild zombie dogs' Our culture, its changes, its technology, and its moral basis, are all so entwined.
I can only say that someone as significant as Ray Bradbury may have changed society, but not sure how to trace such a thing. I do know he has affected me on deep levels, and I act upon my own corner of the world. That's probably the way it happens anyway.

I just heard of Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. Apparently it was a big deal in the 1960's for environmental issues.

Anyone else heard of this one?

Silent Spring was a very popular book at the time. There was another one that I will try to remember-I think Planet was in the title.

Are we doing fiction only? Because obviously great scientific, political and philosophical books had huge impact - not to mention the great religious ones.

Hmm, OP didn't clarify so I'm going to go with no. :)

Yes Sandy, that is exactly the book. Thanks!

Silent Spring was the start of the ecology movement. Just like Upton Sinclair's THE JUNGLE drove meat inspection reform. The writer Alan Moore (WATCHMEN) has said that all war is a failure of the imagination. We have to imagine it, before we can do it, and it's the job of the writer to imagine it for us all.

Luella wrote: "Hmm, OP didn't clarify so I'm going to go with no. :)"

I would modify that abnegation a bit, based upon the prior readings done in OBNR. A work can be literature and still include political and philosophical commentary. Thomas Paine's Common Sense had an immense political and social impact, as did Voltaire's Candide. I would also rate Burgess' Clockwork Orange as still another one with philosophical and political impact. Same for Frankenstein. These works are great literature, too, so they all definitely belong in OBNR.

I do not have enough of a godly perspective to decide if an author has written a work simply as literature, or instead a more complex work that addresses philosophical or scientific issues. So I am just saying the line between fiction and science or philosophy is not always clear. At least to my muddled mind it is unclear.

I was more thinking if we are including works like Newton's The Mathematical Principles Of Natural Philosophy, Darwin's The Origin of Species, The Communist Manifesto, Einstein's Theories of Relativity and Gravitation, How to Win Friends and Influence People, or Mein Kampf.

I would argue that Common Sense is a political pamphlet.

Marta wrote: "I was more thinking if we are including works like Newton's The Mathematical Principles Of Natural Philosophy, Darwin's The Origin of Species, [book:The Communist Manife..."

I agree that Common Sense is primarily a political book. But my point is that it has already been included in the pantheon of books that have been discussed by the OBNR group. It is not pure literature, but I include it because it has already been included by others.

By the way, I would include in your list Edwin Abbott's https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4.... From what I know about it, it seems to be both literature and also metaphysical philosophy. I would certainly recommend it to anyone who wants to know what two-dimensional life could be like.

Brenda wrote: "Silent Spring was the start of the ecology movement. Just like Upton Sinclair's THE JUNGLE drove meat inspection reform. The writer Alan Moore (WATCHMEN) has said that all war is a failure of the i..."

That is an interesting thought. I guess that goes along with there are a number of books that predicted the future. So the writers imagined them for us and now its here kinda thing... Sorry not very articulate still drinking my first coffee of the day!

Jon wrote: "Marta wrote: "I was more thinking if we are including works like Newton's The Mathematical Principles Of Natural Philosophy, Darwin's The Origin of Species, The Co..."</i>

[book:Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions is totally on my list of to-reads, one of my friends had read it and it seemed interesting.