21st Century Literature discussion

Hi Everyone,

This section will be for Part A: Chapters 1 through 6. Spoilers are allowed.

Here's a few questions to get the ball rolling:

1. Do you think Sasha returns the wallet only because she is worried about being caught or does it have more to do with seeing how it affects the woman she stole it from? Do you think the woman not being a New Yorker plays into Sasha's sympathies' at all?

2. Is Bennie's problem with modern music really digitization as he claims or is he too caught up in the nostalgia of his past?

3. Why does the gold work on Bennie's son but not Bennie?

Hello to Everyone,

I am so happy to be reading A Visit from the Goon Squad with the group! I have been wanting to read the book for awhile and this was the perfect motivation to begin.

I thought I would weigh in on the first question regarding Sasha. My impression was that she returned the wallet more out of a sense of shame and fear of being caught. Although she did seem surprised and affected by discovering the woman was more vulnerable and less "New York" than she had imagined, I still think she would have continued to leave the hotel if it hadn't been for her date's reaction to the situation. It seems that Sasha is really struggling with her internal conflict and, at this point in the story, her own overwhelming emotions are more powerful than the sympathy she feels (although I do think she feels that too).

Hi Salome! Glad to have you.

I certainly agree with you that had Alex not stopped Sasha would have gone back to her apartment.

One of the things that struck me about the exchange though was that Egan also shows us Sasha's interaction with the plumber and how he reacts when his screwdriver is missing. The plumber, who is a New Yorker, shows less concern over the loss of one of his tools but still show’s some concern.

I think when the woman is so open and honest with her distress that it prompts Sasha to risk getting caught by trying to sneak the wallet back into the restroom.

The adult Scotty we meet in chapter 6 contains an odd mixture of anger, resentment and complacency regarding his past and Bennie's success. Taking this into consideration do you think he was being altruistic when he gave the young junkie Bennie's card?

Jason wrote: "...I think when the woman is so open and honest with her distress that it prompts Sasha to risk getting caught by trying to sneak the wallet back into the restroom...."

I haven't gone back for a close reread, but I do remember when reading this section being reminded of some of my initial experiences with NYC. I moved to the metropolitan/suburban area when I was thirty and commuted regularly into the city for many years. Previously, I had lived in the Midwest and upper New England. I remember being surprised by how helpful New Yorkers often were during those initial days, given their reputation for coldness and not caring.

Then, a few years later, it was almost as if strangers sensed I should know my way around on my own, even in cases where I was just as much in need of help, and became or at least seemed far less helpful. The sixth and seventh senses felt uncanny. (Today I can experience both cases -- helpfulness and coldness. I often can't figure out why, but I can still sometimes intuit keen abilities to quickly size up a situation. New Yorkers do generally live their lives in contact with a lot of people.)

Hi again!

Jason, I definitely see your point about Sasha and her sensitivity to the woman from out of town vs. the plumber.

Lily, it's interesting to read your take from an NYC perspective.

Good question about the adult Scotty. I think his character is intriguing in the sense that he is much more openly angry and reflective than Bennie, for example. And if he knew the amount of pain and regret that the rest of his cohort would come to feel right along with him, how much that might change his perspective...

I think he gave the young couple Bennie's card out of both anger and altruism. I think he resents carrying around Bennie's embossed card, but I think he recognizes his younger self in the couple. Offering them Bennie's card is his chance to make meaning out of having it at all.

I think he gives the young couple the card out of mixed motives. At least part of the reason was that it gave him a feeling of importance or power to be able to give rhem Bennie's card.

Casceil wrote: "I think he gives the young couple the card out of mixed motives. At least part of the reason was that it gave him a feeling of importance or power to be able to give rhem Bennie's card."

Yes, I definitely agree with this too! It was interesting that as angry as he was about his interaction with Bennie, he gained (at least momentarily) a sense of power and purpose from meeting with him.

Salome wrote: "Lily, it's interesting to read your take from an NYC perspective...."

Thanks, Salome. I'm going to add a sentence that is a foreshadowing about Sasha rather than a spoiler, but since some people are extremely sensitive to this sort of thing, I'll put it below. (Actually, you might say this opening episode has been a "postshadowing.")

(view spoiler)[Stay alert for Sasha's reappearance as a much younger person. Since I am not the greatest at tracking characters in a mish-mash like Egan gives us, it took me a bit to pick up the connection. But it is a good example of Egan's style of "character development," which is probably greater than it seems on a first reading because of the time fragmented ways we learn about the characters. (One friend was surprised that Goon Squad had won the Pulitzer because of what she termed its lack of fully rounded characters. As I thought about her comment, I came to the view in my previous sentence.) (hide spoiler)]

I'm actually fascinated that people read so many motives into Scotty giving the card to the junkies. For myself, I read this a somebody with some serious psychological problems, not too dissimilar from Sasha's (can we call it kleptomania?) or Bennie's guilt complex. From somebody obsessive enough to send an unworn jacket back to the dry cleaners, I don't think any sort of "normal" motivation comes into play. He gave the card because it seemed like the right thing to do, and the only thing that would have held him back would have been the compulsive need to have the edges remain unworn. That's my own reading, of course, but it's the one that rings true to me.

To Jason's question of the digitization of music, I think there's a nice line drawn around the lifecycle of a music producer. I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but one of Bennie's mentors said that rock music hit its peak at Monterey, and that more or less signalled the end of his ability to influence or have mastery over the music scene. Now Bennie has hit his own version of Monterey in the form of digitization, and his proclivity to reminisce about the good old days is a signal beacon proclaiming his inability to understand the world of the new. While I agree about over-reliance on digitization of music being a real problem, there is a certain truth in the notion of being "caught up in the nostalgia of his past" (and I am probably just as caught up in that notion).

Great points by everyone here!

Daniel, I'm glad you brought up the nostaglia aspect as in Chapter 2, page 37 in the edition I read, Bennie has that the thought that, "Nostaglia was the end." Does everyone agree with this idea or do you think that some nostaglia is necessary as one gets older?

I think nostalgia is inevitable!

I also think nostalgia is inevitable, rather than necessary (unless you just want to assume the same meaning, which is fine as well). For the purposes of Bennie's character, though, it really is the end, because his power and influence (and income) are dependent upon him being able to sniff out the hottest sounds. If his tastes lean toward nostalgia, he is effectively handicapped in the arena of new music. Living in the past will drive him straight into producing remastered compilations of bygone bands, or following past-expiry-date singers into the sagging wasteland of Vegas.

Looking back means he's beginning to lose his edge, and I'd even venture a guess that this theme is closely tied to the gold in your other question. The one time he begins to feel a stirring is in the jam session, which I think shows that Egan really is trying to link his impotence in both sex and music. If he could quit living in his past (also referenced in his guilt that needs to be written on the back of old receipts), he could probably find the spark that would reignite all of his now empty passions.

Indeed. Nostalgia is the end for this character. As you so rightly say he's handicapped by it.

So does anyone think that nostaglia plays a role in Scotty or Sasha's behavoir as well?

I have some more thoughts on nostalgia and the characters of Scotty and Sasha, but I will continue them in the "B side" thread. I agree that nostalgia is inevitable, but reckoning with the past is necessary. I think all the characters we've met in Part A are in various stages of differentiating between the two.

I'm really enjoying this. Of course I feel a little left out, because you're all in part B already and here I still am, trailing behind, halfway through six. I feel like you guys should wait up!

Can I confess I didn't like One. I didn't and I'm not sure why exactly. And I had some trepidation about moving forward. But each successive chapter/story is bringing me closer. I think the Lou chapters are particularly compelling. Not because of Lou himself, but because of the people who surround him.

The men reading this may disagree, but I think she has a real interesting and believable shift of thought process and tone when switching between male and female points of view.

Deborah wrote: "I'm really enjoying this. Of course I feel a little left out, because you're all in part B already and here I still am, trailing behind, halfway through six. I feel like you guys should wait up!

C..."
Hi Deborah,
I just wanted to tell you that I had a similar reaction when I first started the book. I think it was Chapter 3 that really grabbed my attention because of the distinct change of narrative voice and the shift in time. I agree that the author captures the perspective of each character in a way that feels authentic. It will be interesting to see what you think of Part B!

Deborah wrote: "I'm really enjoying this. Of course I feel a little left out, because you're all in part B already and here I still am, trailing behind, halfway through six. I feel like you guys should wait up!

C..."

Hi Deborah,

I agree one of the great strengths of the novel is Egan's ability to switch between her male and female points of view so effortlessly.

Ok. I'm way late and just joined this group. Want to weigh in on the nostalgia question..being a long in the tooth hippie punk. I have always been obsessed with music, the industry, the horror of it, and I play as well. I started with Meet the Beatles at 4, and continue to look for music that keeps my attention. Which would rarely include anything in the Top 10. I still play my old records (um..MP3s now, I guess), but not as often because they can sound stale--nostalgia? Occasionally one hits me in a new way--and some always feel fresh...Bowie ironically, given the title of this book.
I have a young musician friend who is obsessed with 80's music--he frequently gets me looking at things with new eyes. And pointed out a song to me with the title "This Music Is Eternal(If I Recharge the Batteries). I think that's what Benny needs, plus all the new musicians that trade on all the retro aspects of what made rock, psychedelic, punk, goth music great--it can't just be rote imitation. The digitalization is completely irrelevant.

I almost bought this book a few years ago from Goodwill but decided to read it finally when I saw you guys had done so. I finally cracked it open today because it has to go back to the library soon.

So far I am enjoying it. I am really glad I joined this group. Before I did so I had a hard time sorting out what modern books were worth my time. I am getting things sorted out now and will be able to update the threads again soon. :)

Any way on to the questions: 1. Do you think Sasha returns the wallet only because she is worried about being caught or does it have more to do with seeing how it affects the woman she stole it from? Do you think the woman not being a New Yorker plays into Sasha's sympathies' at all?

I think Sasha returned it because shes really did want to change and she also just couldn't live with knowing that the woman was devastated by the wallet's loss. The woman should have known better than to leave her things unattended in a city or anywhere really.

2. Is Bennie's problem with modern music really digitization as he claims or is he too caught up in the nostalgia of his past?

I think it's a bit of both for him. The change signifies that he is older and perhaps his time is past.

3. Why does the gold work on Bennie's son but not Bennie?

Bennie's nerves are getting the best of him. He needs to learn to move on from his past "sins" and move on. Then he won't feel so out of it as he does now.

Luella, I'm glad you are enjoying the book. It's been so long since I read it that I don't remember it well enough to comment, but I remember liking the book.