Baker Street Irregulars discussion

So, it's going to be aired tonight! Who's gonna watch it? What are your thoughts?

From the trailers, I'm not terribly optimistic, but of course I'll watch it.

I'm with Mike about being optimistic on the show, but am also willing to watch. I have the same feelings to it I did with the BBC Sherlock, and I end up liking it (mostly due to Moriarty). :)

I watched it last night, and thought that it was very much in the vein of mismatched detective shows like Monk, Lie to Me, The Mentalist and my favorite from the '90s, Due South. No more Doylean Holmes than "Sherlock" (I know my opinion on that score may not be shared), and the plot, solution, execution was pretty much prime time drama blueprint. However, in terms of character composition, I think Jonny Lee Miller did a far better, more persuasive job than Benedict Cumberbatch.

janetility.com

That was exactly the problem: it was just another in the long list of series with "quirky brilliant male lead" and "level-headed and of course beautiful female lead". It made no real effort to incorporate Arthur Conan Doyle. I think I liked Miller's character (who was certainly not Sherlock Holmes) a little better than Liu's (who was MOST certainly not Watson), but definitely not better than Cumberbatch's Holmes.

I was not impressed at all. When it ended I thought it was just ok, but the more I think about it the more I dislike it. The fact that Holmes is like a trust fund child hoping to not get cut off by Daddy was really irritating. I also can't stand Jonny Lee Miller as an actor so he just bugged me. I know he is a modern day Holmes but it seems in this show he deduces less and googles more. Even if you don't like Sherlock, I hope you can at least agree that he deduces everything he just sends text messages and has a cell phone. He doesn't rely on Google.

I think I am still miffed at Watson being a woman, Lucy Lu is a great actress but I just don't like her in this role. I will give it 2 more episodes but that may be all I watch. I am happy to read all of your comments. I am so glad we can chat about our thoughts even if they are not the same. Got to love Goodreads.

I thought the show was okay, but the biggest objection in my mind is that Watson is not English, or that Holmes is not American. It bothered me for some reason that Holmes would leave England and take on an American partner. I have always enjoyed how Victorian Holmes and Watson are because they are so much a part of the time and place the author put them in. The BBC Sherlock does a nice job placing Holmes and Watson in modern England. Its odd to me that Holmes would be English and Watson American.

Joshua wrote: "I thought the show was okay, but the biggest objection in my mind is that Watson is not English, or that Holmes is not American. It bothered me for some reason that Holmes would leave England and ..."

It's a good point. Part of the reason Holmes and Watson make a great partnership is a shared ... heritage, I guess, for want of a better word. For them to suddenly be SO different - female, Asian, American, and discredited surgeon versus male, Anglo, English, and ... whatever he's supposed to be along with addict... yeah. It doesn't work.

That is awesome!!!! This is so funny and I think you for sharing. Great cartoon.

You're welcome! :D Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock wins any day, and only the magnificent Jeremy Brett is comparable.

By the way, awesome profile picture, Chris! *thumbs up*

Eris ~ Time Lord Unvictorious wrote: "You're welcome! :D Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock wins any day, and only the magnificent Jeremy Brett is comparable.

By the way, awesome profile picture, Chris! *thumbs up*"

Thanks, I am just as much a fan of Batman as I am of Sherlock Holmes. I agree I like Sherlock much more than Elementary. I met Jeremy Brett when I was very young, I had not seen his stuff till recently though. My mom got me The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes on DVD for my birthday. I finally can watch all of these episodes for the first time. It is exciting, now I must wait for the new season of Sherlock.

Eris ~ Time Lord Unvictorious wrote: ""

IMPRESSIVE.

Well, to preface my comment, i have not seen "Sherlock" with Cumberbatch. i have heard that it is very good, but i am one of those Sherlockians who likes Holmes by gaslight and not by the dim luminescence of a cell phone. So, i am more critical of the modern Holmes.
i found "Elementary" to be rather boring. Also, i found it strange that a grown Holmes should be baby sat by his Watson. If anyone should have hired Watson for such a chore, it should have been Mycroft. He was mentioned in the Canon. There was no mention of Holmes's father.
It seems to me, that the writer has disregarded much of the Canon in scripting the show. Did he read it? Or did he watch "Sherlock"?
i think the event that irritated me most about the pilot, was Holmes's tantrum using Watson's car. Holmes never loses self-control. He is an actor and a rare one. All of his seeming losses of control are planned.
If the writer could pay more attention to the Canon, i might enjoy it more.

Naching wrote: "Well, to preface my comment, i have not seen "Sherlock" with Cumberbatch. i have heard that it is very good, but i am one of those Sherlockians who likes Holmes by gaslight and not by the dim lumin..."

I, too, was very skeptical about bbc Sherlock. I enjoy that classic Victorian era that never seems to grow old! But I was pleasantly surprised with Sherlock and it's one of my favourite shows. And what make bbc Sherlock so good is that it is pulling directly from the canon. I recommend giving it a go.

I was heavily disappointed with Elementary, though that was expected. Elementary doesn't hold a candle to BBC Sherlock. I agree that is very odd to see Holmes being baby sat and his invisible father pullings these strings somewhere in the shadows. All in all Elementary, to me, is nothing but a very average crime show but most importantly it is certainly not a Sherlock show. I have a feeling the writers haven't properly read any of the stories.

Luke wrote: "Naching wrote: "Well, to preface my comment, i have not seen "Sherlock" with Cumberbatch. i have heard that it is very good, but i am one of those Sherlockians who likes Holmes by gaslight and not ..."

i am prepared to give "Sherlock" a try. And i totally agree with you about "Elementary". It is not a Sherlock show. He was Sherlock in name only.

I was also reluctant about watching Sherlock, at first (some YouTube comments by Johnlock shippers really made me run away), but I am so happy that I finally gave it a chance! It is now one of my favorite shows and it is truly a worthy Sherlock Holmes remake.

Also, the guy who plays Sherlock Holmes in the show appreciates the genius of Jeremy Brett: http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia...

Eris ~ Time Lord Unvictorious wrote: "I was also reluctant about watching Sherlock, at first (some YouTube comments by Johnlock shippers really made me run away), but I am so happy that I finally gave it a chance! It is now one of my f..."

Oh boy yeah, the Johnlock fanfic/slasher/shippers - whatever they want to be called these days - have really put a twisted image on Holmes. I'm not pleased by it at all.

and Naching when you do watch Sherlock let me know what you think!

Luke wrote: "Eris ~ Time Lord Unvictorious wrote: "I was also reluctant about watching Sherlock, at first (some YouTube comments by Johnlock shippers really made me run away), but I am so happy that I finally g..."

i sure will, Luke! i do like the work of Stephen Moffat, so there is a good chance i may like the "Sherlock" series.

I liked it!

After watching a few episodes (actually, all of them so far), I got used to Elementary being a crime/mystery show instead of an adventure like the movies and Sherlock. and I am liking it! I'm like, "Oh, a nice, weekly mystery. Ah, sigh of contentment."

Luke wrote: "Eris ~ Time Lord Unvictorious wrote: "I was also reluctant about watching Sherlock, at first (some YouTube comments by Johnlock shippers really made me run away), but I am so happy that I finally g..."
Hi Luke!
i was finally able to catch the first episode of "Sherlock" on Netflix. All i can say is "WOW!" i loved it! The show, though modern-day, is faithful to the character and flavor of Doyle's Holmes. Can't wait to see the next few episodes! It makes me think of what Conan Doyle said to William Gillette when he asked Doyle whether he could marry Holmes off in his new play. Doyle said "Marry him or Murder him. I don't care." i guess if Doyle doesn't care how Holmes is portrayed, i can make do with the modern day setting.

i've been watching the series for a while now and i have to say it's quite good.
feels more that just a rip off of Sherlock.
that and you can tell the people who write the show have actually read the original stories.

Did anyone else see the season finale of Elementary last week? If not, you should try to see it online on CBS.com. I don't want to give anything away, but it had a VERY interesting twist on Irene Adler and Moriarity. Briefly, Holmes had meet Irene Adler in London where she worked as an artist. It was her death by order of Moriarity that had driven him to drugs and to move to the US. In this episode Irene is discovered alive, but traumatized. She had been held captive by someone called Stapleton (the character from Hound of the Baskervilles?). Holmes asks her to live in the apartment shared by himself and Watson while she recuperates. I don't want to say anymore and give too much away.

John wrote: "Did anyone else see the season finale of Elementary last week? If not, you should try to see it online on CBS.com. I don't want to give anything away, but it had a VERY interesting twist on Irene A..."

Hi John. I watched the season finale last week and thought it was great. This show I think, has gotten better with each episode. I love the way the relationship between Sherlock and Joan Watson is turning out and can't wait until season 2 starts in the fall.

I've heard, when the second season starts, the first episode is going to be were Sherlock and Joan are going to be going to England.

Amanda wrote: "I've heard, when the second season starts, the first episode is going to be were Sherlock and Joan are going to be going to England.
"

That should be good. I loved the Irene/Moriarty twist in the finale. That caught me by surprise. Very creative writing.

I'll have to watch it! I lost track of Elementary a couple of months ago, but introducing Moriarty and Irene has caught my interest again.

John wrote: "Did anyone else see the season finale of Elementary last week? If not, you should try to see it online on CBS.com. I don't want to give anything away, but it had a VERY interesting twist on Irene A..."

And then there was the riff on "The Adventure of the Dying Detective." Personally I was hoping to see someone go over a waterfall.

Joshua wrote: "I thought the show was okay, but the biggest objection in my mind is that Watson is not English, or that Holmes is not American. It bothered me for some reason that Holmes would leave England and ..."

Gender and nationality don't bother me at all. However, I am troubled that Watson has become an apprentice. Much of the dynamic relationship between Holes & Watson stemmed from the fact that Watson had his own life, that he was not Holmes' apprentice or acolyte. True, we are treated to all those you-know-my-methods moments in the stories, but that only served to enhance our appreciation of Holmes' skills, not to show how astute Watson was. As the NYPD detective remarked in the finale during one of Watson's deductions: "Just like Holmes was here." Indeed, who needs Holmes?

The English/American thing doesn't bother me either. That was well explained by Holmes trying to make a clean break and start over after the supposed death of Irene Adler. Also making Watson female does not bother me at all, in fact I think that it is refreshing. It does bother me about Watson becoming an apprentice. I would prefer that she remain more of an assistant, kind of like Monk and Natalie. I also like that that in the BBC Sherlock series Watson records Sherlock's adventures on a blog, very modern. I'd prefer that they stick a little closer to the cannon with Watson as assistant/friend and biographer.

The Shadow wrote: "i've been watching the series for a while now and i have to say it's quite good.
feels more that just a rip off of Sherlock.
that and you can tell the people who write the show have actually read..."

It's not a rip off of Sherlock, it's an adaption of the stories. I don't think they are trying to steal that fame of the show of same origins or anything.

I admit that at first I was not a fan of the show or Female!Watson. But now I love it. I like the cases and that season finale that (I need to watch). The only thing I'm like confused over is the blond Irene? Was she described as blond (I always saw her as a brunette)?

Sherlock is good, for a three episode per season show. I just like something that continues for an actual season, like Brett's did.

Wikipedia says the second season may start on 26th September 2013. last year the first episode was aired on 27th sept 2012 [its been a year :o time flies so fast ;)] so who all r going to watch it? i am a bit excited, but not as mch as i am for BBC's 'Sherlock' :D

I finally got caught up on Elementary. I really enjoyed the "Irene Adler" story arc. I am also excited for the new season to start. It will be interesting to see Sherlock back in London and the characters that are introduced. I know Lestrade and Mycroft (or whatever they are calling him).

Can't wait until Thursday for season two of Elementary.
It's going to be real interesting to see Sherlock take Joan to London. Maybe, there will be more secrets revealed so Joan can get a better understanding for Sherlock.

Looking forward to the new season. The London story arc should be interesting and I want to see what they do with Mycroft and maybe some of the other characters.

I am going to have to revise my cautious remarks about "Elementary". I am liking it more and more, for the risk taking, the exceptionally good shooting (props to the camera crew, set decorators) and the superb chemistry between Miller and Liu.
Kudos to the writers as well. Yes, it is in the template of the CBS procedural, but there are some beautifully done moments - Sherlock's remarks at an AA meeting about contemporary society, his talk with the young man he is going to sponsor, and his reflections on his long-sober friend who relapsed (echoes of the Philip Seymour Hoffman tragedy) were so well written and so well executed by Miller. I find his take on Sherlock so much more interesting than the one on "Sherlock", a show that I am liking less (never liked it much).

In total agreement with your "review." I'm a serious fan of Conan Doyle AND August Derleth's "homage" with Solar Pons. So far the only other movie/TV Sherlock that I really like is Jeremy Brett. The chemistry between Miller and Liu works and is believable now. My husband even likes the show which is curious as well since he likes mysteries but doesn't like TV shows with alot of blood and guts. There is an easy flow to the scripts and the story lines flow between the episodes. Nice to have an interesting mix of English from both sides of the pond!

I am a total Newbie to this Sherlock Holmes thing, but I LOVE Elementary. I am not sure if it is true to the stories, because I have not read any yet, but I will get there. I love the relationship between Sherlock and Watson, and I love that Watson is female.

The recent Elementary episode about Sherlock's friend Alistair was a really very fine one. At last we got the joy of hearing Jonny Lee Miller doing a Derry ( northern Irish) accent, reminiscent of his Glaswegian accent in Trainspotting and we also got some nice references to Beckette and Waiting for Godot. Quite moving! Jonny Lee Miller at his very best, a stage like performance of sheer pleasure. For Conan Doyle's sake, the writers of the show should get Jonny to have a go at reading Robert Burns in his great Scottish accent.

Autumn wrote: "I am a total Newbie to this Sherlock Holmes thing, but I LOVE Elementary. I am not sure if it is true to the stories, because I have not read any yet, but I will get there. I love the relationship ..."

Elementary is an entertaining series no doubt......but nowhere near BBCs Sherlock. So I strongly recommend you to start watching Sherlock series. It has only 9 episodes total (3 series). I am sure you will be amazed! Also watch Robert Downey jrs both Sherlock Holmes movies....they are full of action and entertaining.

Wow did anyone see the last episode. Very interesting....if only most of the episodes from the series were like this. Lots of suspense, surprise and action.

Rohit wrote: "Autumn wrote: "I am a total Newbie to this Sherlock Holmes thing, but I LOVE Elementary. I am not sure if it is true to the stories, because I have not read any yet, but I will get there. I love th..."

I have watched Sherlock the series, and I thoroughly enjoyed that as well.

Autumn wrote: "I am a total Newbie to this Sherlock Holmes thing, but I LOVE Elementary. I am not sure if it is true to the stories, because I have not read any yet, but I will get there. I love the relationship ..."

I expected to like "Sherlock" and to find it more "Sherlockian", and to be put off by "Elementary", yet I've had the exact opposite reaction. I think one thing "Elementary" has going for it is it's time frame; most of the Canon are short stories and best suited to the conventional 48 minute hour format. Keeping to that (as did the Brett series) keeps the show well-paced. "Sherlock" will very often drag and seem loaded up with filler, as with the last (the Milverton riff) episode that seemed like a 45 minute show squeezed into an hour and a half.
I think the other advantage "Elementary" has is Jonny Lee Miller. I find his take on Sherlock, the delivery, the self-reflection, the odd spurts of kinetic energy very evocative of the Holmes of the Canon.

The new two parts episode was interesting. Just as I was thinking that Mycroft was going totally against the cannon they surprised me at the end. Looking forward to the next show.

Elementary is a great show, full of really first hand information which you wouldn't normally get in the press, such as spy bugs which are robot bugs which are now used by the CIA, bank money laundering and fraud lists that can be purchased, home made guns made with 3D printers, getting replies from CCTV cameras, etc. I also enjoy the acting, especially JLM, whose performance is the main attraction in the series. The occasional element of pathos by bringing in references to Beckette etc, is also a great way of introducing a more soul searching discourse in the midst of all that rationalism and objective reasoning. I only wish there was a tiny bit more of that centered around Sherlock's persona and less of Watson who is gradually taking over Sherlock. I think the political correctness of making Watson almost equal to Sherlock is a mistake and Sherlock Holmes will no longer be the iconic symbol of deductive reasoning. The whole point of the series is precisely that and NOT how Watson manages to outdo Sherlock and how Shetlock becomes subservient to Watson because of his emotional needs. Joan Watson's own genius and her humane qualities should not in any way be parallele to that of Sherlock's, otherwise Sherlock's singular deductive reasoning will become redundant, simply for the sake of political correctness or banking too much on Lucy Liu's popular appeal.

Even though I still appreciate Elementary very much, but I must say I found the finale of season 2 quite tacky. For one thing there were far too many diversions from the main storyline and this time, unfortunately the writers hadn't really done their homework properly in getting the facts right. One of the most striking mistakes was that Iranians would never, ever trust an MI5/6 British agent/mole to work with in view of the British involvement in Iranian history from Lord Curzon to the tobacco concession and then the overthrow of their first democratically elected prime minister in 1953 leading to a coup d'état masterminded by the British Intelligence and the CIA, which, incidentally was officially admitted by the CIA in 2013 and president Obama's official acknowledgment of "meddling". Then, Elementary presents Julian Afkhami, supposedly an Iranian government agent in NY who stones to death his wife's lover. This was another blunder which was really tacky. An Iranian government agent would never take that kind of risk abroad and even if he did, he certainly would not have murdered by stoning. Honour killing is not so prevelant in Shia tradition as it is amongst the Sunnis and even though the Islamic Republic of Iran maintains the Sharia law of stoning as a punishment for adultery, such punishment, however has never ever been practiced by individual Iranians in Iran, let alone those who live in NY and espcially not by one who is sophisticated enough to have a book shop in NY selling books on archeology,art and literature. Elementary writers were no doubt caught up in the same preconceived ideas about Iranians as the writers of Homeland or Argo. For future reference, I suggest they consult Iranian Americans such as Christian Amanpour or Pierre Omidyar, the founder of eBay. They'll be better advised on how to portray Iranians residing in America. Unfortunately, they made the same mistakes about the mole having a chip on his shoulder in relation to Mycroft because of his social class. Actually, British Intelligence is not, as it's assumed in Elementary,"the gentlenan's club" or the hub of English Establishment. James Bond is hardly a representative of the British landed gentry! Anyway, the last two episodes of Elementary season 2 were very patchy and the only saving grace was the wonderful performance of the two Brits!
It was quite moving to see the outburst of emotion, in straight jacket as it's typical of Brits.
I think the only way Elementary could start season 3 on a more dignified and a compelling note to make up for the season 2 blunders, is if they allowed a third brilliant Brit actor to join in as father Holmes, in this case I suggest Charles Dance who would definately fit the bill, as much for his stature and pointed features which could easily pass off as JLM's father, as for his style of acting that would match that of JLM. Since Mycroft can no longer go to London, Rome or Paris because of Le Milieu, as Sherlock said, then why not open the season at Conan Doyle's beautiful hometown, Edinburgh? Then, there could be a touch of Dr.Jekyl and Mr.Hyde in Hariot Row or at the Free Mason's Hall or the Castle which would most probably add an intriguing and mysterious ingredient to an otherwise a straightforward procedural show. There will also be the opportunity of hearing JLM delivering his wonderful Scottish accent from his trainspotting days, so long as Elementary writers don't present Scots with the same preconceived ideas as they did with Iranians! The Edinburgh connection with Conan Doyle is something that Moffat missed out in his BBC Sherlock!

Yet another proof of good and sound writings in Elementary was when Sherlock refusing to take any pain killers for his wounded shoulder, he says to Watson
"It's doing the Dambusters...." this was said in an episode which was a few days away from the D day, For those who don't know, the Dambusters were a small group of RAF pilots who managed to bomb the dams in Germany in WWII very heroically. Such tiny references that Elementary writers take into account are soooo satisfying! I hope everyone agrees with me on this.

I guess the damsters reference was understood by only 1% of the population who watched that episode :p

He actually said "spirit of Dambusters and all...". The whole point of mentioning it here was so that more people would go and find out about the heroic Dambusters in the II World War! I think I should also mention that as part of the MI6 10 session training at King's College, Sherlock Holmes' deductive reasoning was used with Scandal in Bohemia as a case study. By the way, the British Prime Minister, David Cameron is a staunch Elementary fan, preferring it to the Bib's Sherlock! All this information is naturally verifiable.