The Year of Reading Proust discussion

This thread is for the discussion that will take place through Sunday, 10 Nov. of The Fugitive, to page 860 (to the paragraph beginning: “Meanwhile, Mme de Villeparisis...”)

Accompanying the Narrator to Venice and will be less in these posts for a while.

So, I plan to reread the relevant sections in situ.

I visited the Fortuny palace today Nd learnt that Roberto Calasso named his book Tiepolo's Pink after Proust

Found Eugene's Wikiquotes in this week's section (a third into it). Bonus it comes with another bit of highly quotable Proust!

The habit of thinking prevents us at times from feeling reality, makes us immune to it, makes it seem no more than another thought.

There is no idea that does not carry in itself a possible refutation, no word that does not imply its opposite. Moncrieff

En français:

L'habitude de penser empêche parfois d'éprouver le réel, immunise contre lui, le fait paraître de la pensée encore.

Il n'y a pas une idée qui ne porte en elle sa réfutation possible, un mot, le mot contraire. GF p265

Eugene, you were saying this reminds you of Derrida... ;)

Kalliope wrote: "So, I plan to reread the relevant sections in situ."

*jealous* I hope you're having a great time sans rubber boots on the Piazza San Marco! :D


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008...

Is this gonna start up again next year?

Book Portrait wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "So, I plan to reread the relevant sections in situ."

*jealous* I hope you're having a great time sans rubber boots on the Piazza San Marco! :D


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2..."

2008? Shame on you Book Portrait! You had me worried that Kalliope's trip was ruined because of these floods!

@nunya "gonna"? No. Going to? Probably not. Sorry pet peeve.

BP wrote: ...you were saying this reminds you of Derrida... ;)

No, I said it was Derrida.

There is no idea that does not carry in itself a possible refutation, no word that does not imply its opposite. Marcel Proust

Deconstruction is an attempt to expose and undermine the binary oppositions, hierarchies, and paradoxes on which particular texts, philosophical and otherwise, are founded...Derrida approaches all texts as constructed around binary oppositions which all speech has to articulate if it intends to make any sense whatsoever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_...

Yes, in Venice and saw a book on Peggy Guggenheim with her on the cover wearing a Fortuny gown.

Kalliope wrote: "Yes, in Venice and saw a book on Peggy Guggenheim with her on the cover wearing a Fortuny gown."

Nice Kalli, enjoy yourself and have a great time! Take photos for us!

It is to some extent the same thing as the everlasting "You'll see when I no longer love you," which is so true and so absurd, since one would indeed elicit much if one no longer loved, but one would no longer be interested in eliciting it. ML p. 814

Here is a version of the "turn" (for lack of a better word) in the Albertine cycle, but explained. It was exciting to see, in last week's reading (see msg 130), it used with society and literature (art) instead of seeing Proust use it with love and jealousy as he did with Swann/Odette and the Narrator/Albertine.

ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "2008? Shame on you Book Portrait! You had me worried that Kalliope's trip was ruined because of these floods!"

*hangs head* Sorry. I didn't mean to worry you Reem.

As apology, a little offering:



Maybe the book Kalliope saw: Mistress of Modernism: The Life of Peggy Guggenheim

Just because it's so beautiful:


Source: http://chicandyoushallfind.wordpress....

The Peggy Guggenheim Collection is amazing. Have fun in Venice in Kalliope. :D

Yes, at Peggy's yesterday. Found more pink which I will post. Also had temporary exhibition on Impressionists and Post-Impressionists with relevance to Proust which I will post later on.

Book Portrait wrote:
As apology, a little offering:

I'll accept your offering and offer one myself.


[image error]
Dressing gown, ca. 1930
Mariano Fortuny (Italian, born Spain, 1871–1949)
Stenciled rose silk

Very cool fact: With slashed sleeves extending far beyond the length of the arm like a mandarin's robes, Fortuny's wraps, capes, and gowns are in the realm of high fantasy. Primary sign or reference—or what seems to be specific location—is established by the stenciling that suggests the kufic and corded embroideries of North African djellabahs.

My offering must not be sincere, image wouldn't post:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-o...

I know Francoise is a favorite of many people around here, but the woman that I find rather fascinating is the good Duchess. As I read the way that she is depicted by Proust, I try to make sense of why he wants to present her in this manner. Why is she so callous in the way she treats people? I don't see Proust resorting to common stereotype, so why does she act this way? Why does she refuse to see Swann's daughter and then as if on a whim she decides she'll see her afterall? I guess I'll have to read on!

" We knew him very well, I remember him very well."
(As indeed she might, seeing that he had come to see her almost every day for twenty-five years.")(MKE 783,784)

Signed,

perplexed by Proust and the psychology of this

Realizing Proust is ill and nearing the end of his life I must read this section aphoristically. One can only imagine the changes he would have made to the text had he been able; changes that in a letter to his publisher he said he was unable to make. This letter was written several months before he died.

Lying is essential to humanity. ML p. 824

One lies all one's life long, even, especially, perhaps only, to those who love one. ML p. 824

But above all we must remember this: on the one hand, lying is often a trait of character; on the other hand, in women who would not otherwise be liars, it is a natural defense, improvised at first, then more and more organized, against that sudden danger which would be capable of destroying all life: love. ML p. 834

And if these indiscretions are false, invented because she is no longer present to contradict them, one ought to be even more afraid of the dead woman's wrath if one believed in heaven. But no one does believe in it. ML p. 836

One of the things I note, as a reader who reads two Narrators: one reflective (the self who is quoted in this comment) and a younger one on whom the older one reflects, is that the reflective Narrator is as culpable and depressed as his younger self. It was different before; the reflective Narrator was the 'saving grace' from the moral foibles or the imperfections of his younger self because he promised the reader a satisfactory resolution in later time. But this promise is broken here. Proust wallows and loses control but we can forgive him for this caused by his approaching death. I suspect, had he lived longer and been in better health he would have altered the text--but maybe not too--to prevent readers from making similar observations to mine--not on the writing which impresses me but on the structure of the story.

Truth and life are very difficult to fathom, and I retained of them, without really having got to know them, an impression in which sadness was perhaps actually eclipsed by exhaustion. ML p. 843

But we have the rest of this volume and the next one to look forward to and I'm sure things will change. And perhaps Proust didn't lose control as I said: it's difficult to assume what a dead man would have done when all we have is hearsay (even from him) but we do have his real words on the page.

Eugene wrote: "Realizing Proust is ill and nearing the end of his life I must read this section aphoristically.

I do like that Eugene! You may like reading Selections From Proust
- edited by L. James Hammond
I found it just the other day.

http://www.ljhammond.com/proust.htm

I will be visiting more Carpaccio today.

Yesterday I was at the Biennale and Proustian issues such as the role of the artist were discussed.

And today also more Titian, which is also Proustian. There is an exhibit on a newly opened Palazzo.

Kalliope wrote: "I will be visiting more Carpaccio today.

Yesterday I was at the Biennale and Proustian issues such as the role of the artist were discussed."

Sounds like you're busy absorbing Venice. For those of you who would like to get a glimpse of the Biennale exhibit:

http://www.labiennale.org/en/art/exhi...

Has anyone noticed or perhaps already commented on the Octave character whom the Narrator remembers as being a risk taker back in the Balbec days and bored by people such as his younger self. He now accepts that this one-time frivolous golfer and nephew of the Verdurins has considerable talent. Is this a portrait of Jean Cocteau (although he would have been 18 years younger than Proust and only a teenager when Proust spent his final summers in Cabourg)? Marcelita will know...

Fionnuala wrote: "Has anyone noticed or perhaps already commented on the Octave character whom the Narrator remembers as being a risk taker back in the Balbec days and bored by people such as his younger self. He no..."

I just read the passage and was puzzling over who this young golfer-turned-genius could be based on:

Ce jeune homme fit représenter des petits sketchs, dans des décors et avec des costumes de lui qui ont amené dans l'art contemporain une révolution au moins égale à celle accomplie par les Ballets russes. Bref les juges les plus autorisés considérèrent ses oeuvres comme quelque chose de capital, presque des oeuvres de génie, et je pense d'ailleurs comme eux, ratifiant ainsi, à mon propre étonnement, l'ancienne opinion de Rachel.

A couple of pages later note 130 in the GF edition confirms your suspicion that Jean Cocteau is the model for Octave. I would never have guessed. :)

According to this research team at the University Paul-Valéry Montpellier III that specialises in Cocteau:

Proust en revanche saura reconnaître et saluer la mue artistique de Cocteau d’où sort en 1917 Parade, non seulement dans leur correspondance privée mais dans À la recherche du temps perdu, où il inspire le personnage d’Octave, un neveu des Verdurin.

Dans À l’ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs, Octave est un « jeune gommeux » fin de siècle que le narrateur rencontre à Balbec. Or ce dandy, infaillible « sur l’opportunité du smoking ou du pyjama » mais « sans la moindre culture intellectuelle », montre dans Albertine disparue sa valeur sur le plan artistique en faisant représenter « des petits sketches, dans des décors et avec des costumes de lui, qui ont amené dans l’art contemporain une révolution au moins égale à celle accomplie par les Ballets russes » : œuvres admirables, « presque des œuvres de génie ».

Octave illustre donc à son tour le grand malentendu mis en scène par Proust à propos de l’art, à travers l’écrivain Bergotte, le peintre Elstir et le musicien Vinteuil, qui veut que la personnalité sociale soit souvent trompeuse et ne dise rien du génie de l’artiste, que seule leur œuvre révèle ou va révéler.
Source: http://cocteau.biu-montpellier.fr/ind...

Also:
http://proust-personnages.fr/?page_id...

Parade was a ballet with music by Erik Satie based on a poem by Jean Cocteau. Costumes & design by Picasso!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parade_%...

Marcelita, Kalliope... must know all about this...

More on Parade:

http://www.regietheatrale.com/index/i...


Leonide Massine dans Parade

Parade, ballet réaliste:
Devant une baraque de fête foraine, trois managers cherchent à faire comprendre aux passants que le spectacle est au dedans. Il faut entrer pour applaudir le meilleur. Ce qui se passe à l’extérieur – les numéros de l’acrobate, du prestidigitateur chinois et de la petite danseuse américaine - n’est qu’un aguichant appel. Les décors sont signés Pablo Picasso, la musique Erik Satie, la chorégraphie Léonide Massine.

2 very good, short videos:

* Cocteau remembers the creation of Parade (2:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WATQDq...

* A selection of performances from Parade (2:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Chq1T...

These costumes are awesome! :)

Book Portrait wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "Has anyone noticed or perhaps already commented on the Octave character whom the Narrator remembers as being a risk taker back in the Balbec days and bored by people such as his y..."

Ah, so GF confirm that it is Cocteau. I'm away from home at the moment and didn't take my GF edition along, only my kindle app - Ryanair baggage restrictions are a terrible curse constraint.
Octave/Cocteau, Morel/Moreau - Proust liked his little wordplays. I like that he had fun with words this way.
And, yes,I'm sure Kalliope has already noted this.

A couple of links (en français) on the story of Parade, which was quite a scandal when it was performed in 1917 when France was still at war:

http://www.france-examen.com/parade-f...
http://www.faisceau.com/pica_th_pa_hi...

These costumes!!


http://www.crescendo-magazine.be/2013...





A very good article on Diaghilev (en français):
http://www.crescendo-magazine.be/2013...

Cocteau was not yet 30 in 1917. Portraits of a young Cocteau:





Cocteau in 1916 with the ‘Group of Six’ composers (Georges Auric, Louis Durey, Arthur Honegger, Darius Milhaud, Francis Poulenc and Germaine Tailleferre)
http://zedisred.blogspot.fr/2010/12/2...


Jean Cocteau by Modigliani. 1916.


Cocteau in 1923

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Coc...
http://www.homohistory.com/2012/09/je...

Cocteau of course was gay... whereas Octave is married to Andrée...

Thanks for those links, Book Portrait. It seems that when Diaghilev said, "Étonne-moi," Cocteau took him at his word. That was some parade of talent he put together!

...I caught sight of this ogival window which had already seen me, and the thrust of its pointed arches added to its smile of welcome the distinction of a loftier, scarcely comprehensible gaze.

Proust animates an ogival window: it sees, it smiles, the Narrator's mother morphs into Proust's own mother, Proust recalls that he and his mother spent a month with Ruskin (reading, translating) in "some holiday resort" and the window, when he sees it again, its ogive says the thing that touches Proust "...more than anything else in the world: 'I remember your mother so well.'"

And because, behind its multicolored marble balusters, Mamma was sitting reading while she waited for, me to return, her face shrouded in a tulle veil as heartrending in its whiteness as her hair to me who sensed that, hiding her tears, she had pinned it to her straw hat not so much with the idea of appearing "dressed" in the eyes of the hotel staff as in order to appear to me to be less in mourning, less sad, almost consoled for the death of my grandmother; because, not having recognized me at first, as soon as I called to her from the gondola, she sent out to me, from the bottom of her heart, a love which stopped only where there was no longer any corporeal matter to sustain it, on the surface of her impassioned gaze which she brought as close to me as possible, which she tried to thrust forward to the advanced post of her lips, in a smile which seemed to be kissing me, within the frame and beneath the canopy of the more discreet smile of the arched window lit up by the midday sun—because of this, that window has assumed in my memory the precious quality of things that have had, simultaneously with us, side by side with us, their share in a certain hour that struck, the same for us and for them; and however full of admirable tracery its mullions may be, that illustrious window retains in my eyes the intimate aspect of a man of genius with whom we have spent a month in some holiday resort, where he has acquired a friendly regard for us; and if, ever since then, whenever I see a cast of that window in a museum, I am obliged to hold back my tears, it is simply because it says to me the thing that touches me more than anything else in the world: "I remember your mother so well." ML p. 846-847

Proust...Cocteau...Parade...Simone de Caillavet...Leontine Lippmann... Anatole France...Jeanne Pouquet...Gilberte Swann...Marcel Proust.

From Carter's biography:

"Proust attended a performance at the Théâtre du Chàtelet of Cocteau’s remarkable ballet Parade, [...] Writing to congratulate Cocteau on the ballet, Proust said...the ballet was 'poignant and continues to generate in me untold regrets.' One regret he felt was never 'to have known the sawdust of circuses.'
[...]
"Parade, for all its innovations and daring avant-gardism, did not succeed with the public, nor did it win over Simone de Caillavet, whose adolescent beauty had dazzled Proust.

"Now twenty-two, Simone panned the show in a scathing review that she wrote for Le Gaulois. Parade’s creators withdrew the ballet."
Marcel Proust: A Life, with a New Preface by the Author
By William C. Carter

Now...the circle closes.

Simone de Caillavet is the "granddaughter of Albert Arman de Caillavet and Leontine Lippmann (muse and mistress' of Anatole France).

Simone Arman de Caillavet is the only daughter of playwright Gaston Arman de Caillavet and Jeanne Pouquet.

Marcel Proust is a friend of Jeanne Pouquet, who inspired the character of Gilberte Swann."
(Freely translated from the French Wiki.)

I mentioned this before but it bears repeating,

Cocteau: That pile of paper on his left side went on living like the watch on a dead soldier’s wrist.

On his visit to the deathbed of Marcel Proust, as quoted in "Cocteau: The Great Enchanter" by Edmund White Vogue (May 1984)

Now Book Portrait let's do some creative thinking, mind you I didn't say correct or incorrect thinking, let the deconstructive reader be the judge of that. Proust says, "There is no idea that does not carry in itself a possible refutation, no word that does not imply its opposite." I quoted the following about deconstruction in msg 9, "Derrida approaches all texts as constructed around binary oppositions which all speech has to articulate if it intends to make any sense whatsoever," a seeming conundrum.

To illustrate my position, what we have here, to bastardize the thought of John Porter Houston in his The Shape and Style of Proust's Novel, is "isocolon" and "antithesis"; but leaving isocolon alone, as it it is more specific to historical French rhetoric, we have antithesis, as it is more common to both the French of Proust's writing and the English translation of it. The question is how do we deconstruct "binary oppositions" and have "any sense whatsoever" of Proust? That is the conundrum.

Alone in my truck today with sheep in the trailer behind me, as almost on every Wednesday, listening to readings of Proust (Jocelyn smiles) I had an idea for us, but first read the antitheses below,

I had the impression, which my desire strengthened further, of not being outside, but of entering more and more into the depths of something secret, because each time I found something new which came to place itself on one side of me or the other, a small monument or an unexpected campo, keeping the surprised expression of beautiful things which one sees for the first time and of which one doesn't yet perfectly understand the intended purpose or the utility. ML p. 850

I list antithesis and partial-antithesis: impression/desire, outside/entering, secret/what Proust tells us, one side/the other, expected/unexpected, monument/campo, surprised/unsurprised, first time/other times, not understand/understand, utility/non utility...there may be others that I missed.

Thinking of antithesis: Proust has deconstructed his own sentence in the writing of it by the pairing of binary oppositions or their ellipses--the antitheses--but of course there are oppositions to his antitheses and so on. Language is like one mirror held up to another: the reflections go on for as far as the eye can see; it is seemingly endless as is deconstruction.

Eugene wrote: "Now Book Portrait let's do some creative thinking, mind you I didn't say correct or incorrect thinking, let the deconstructive reader be the judge of that. Proust says, "There is no idea that does ..."

LOL. This is wonderful! I'll have to come back to it when I've refueled on coffee (^^) and when I'm done with this week's pages (like Kalliope I do a quick run-through with the audio, then I slowly reread the pages and comment/hog the comment pages). :)

ETA: I'd love to read The Shape and Style of Proust's Novel but it looks out of print... :(

Marcelita wrote: "Proust...Cocteau...Parade...Simone de Caillavet...Leontine Lippmann... Anatole France...Jeanne Pouquet...Gilberte Swann...Marcel Proust..."

Marcelita, it's amazing. Is there anything you DON'T know about Proust? You're a living Proustopedia. :)

@Book Portrait

Abebooks has Houston from $9.64...

Kalliope wrote: "Accompanying the Narrator to Venice and will be less in these posts for a while."

I have just finished this week's reading and must say I'm jealous of you!

Eugene wrote: "@Book Portrait

Abebooks has Houston from $9.64..."

LOL. I take it you really think it's a great book. I'll go see how much it costs to ship overseas... Thanks for the tip. :)

@Book Portrait

Some of the best readings of the classics were written in the 19th Century & are now "out of print" because they don't sell.

Publishing is a business.

And secondary readings of Proust are now becoming out of print...you can be sure that Campagnon, Carter et al have read Houston.

Proust really skewers the social posturing of aristocrats and bourgeois in the beginning of this week's section.

On sentait que s'ils avaient été, les parents et le fils, encore en vie, le duc de Guermantes n'eût pas eu d'hésitation à les recommander pour une place de jardiniers! Et voilà comment le faubourg Saint-Germain parle à tout bourgeois des autres bourgeois, soit pour le flatter de l'exception faite--le temps qu'on cause--en faveur de l'interlocuteur ou de l'interlocutrice, soit plutôt, et en même temps, pour l'humilier. C'est ainsi qu'un antisémite dit à un Juif, dans le moment même où il le couvre de son affabilité, du mal des Juifs, d'une façon générale qui permette d'être blessant sans être grossier. p242

The Guermantes are a hysterical duet and Gilberte doesn't come out of unscathed either: her fascination for those who cut her father and her focused social climbing are dissected by Proust who points out the lies, the hypocrisy, the snobism of her efforts to hide who her father was. Masterful stroke when he underlines the social darwinism of her behaviour:

La véritable hypocrisie dans cette signature était manifestée par la suppression bien moins des autres lettres du nom de Swann que de celles du nom de Gilberte. En effet, en réduisant le prénom innocent à un simple G, Mlle de Forcheville semblait insinuer à ses amis que la même amputation appliquée au nom de Swann n'était due aussi qu'à des motifs d'abréviation. Même elle donnait une importance particulière à l'S, et en faisait une sorte de longue queue qui venait barrer le G, mais qu'on sentait transitoire et destinée à disparaître comme celle qui, encore longue chez le singe, n'existe plus chez l'homme. p249

ETA: And Proust gets a snicker out of me every time he has them use their pet names (Babal, Gri-Gri, Meme...). :)

Eugene wrote: "And secondary readings of Proust are now becoming out of print...you can be sure that Campagnon, Carter et al have read Houston."

Agreed. My hope is that with ebooks, there will be no more "out of print" editions in the future...

The power is out, I'm hobbled on my iP...

@Book Portrait

The curious thing for me is that Gilberte is not ashamed of Odette as Swann's 'love' for the immoral O was one reason, the other was his position on Dreyfus, that he was ostracized by society. So not only must one see Gilberte, as the Narrator does, being a snob but an anti-Semite too.

Fionnuala wrote: "Has anyone noticed or perhaps already commented on the Octave character whom the Narrator remembers as being a risk taker back in the Balbec days and bored by people such as his younger self. He no..."

Well caught, Fionnuala... you do not need the GF footnote...!!!

Eugene wrote: "I mentioned this before but it bears repeating,

Cocteau: That pile of paper on his left side went on living like the watch on a dead soldier’s wrist.

On his visit to the deathbed of Marcel Proust..."

Oh yes! I remember reading that for the first time...and thought I had actually heard the watch ticking! Even now, both times with your postings....it is still there. I can understand why Cocteau was such a "hit" at an early age, if visceral image-words like this fell from his lips.

One of the saddest passages in the novel:

"But when, to this daughter of his, he used from time to time to say, taking her in his arms and kissing her: 'How comforting it is, my darling, to have a daughter like you; one day when I’m no longer here, if people still mention your poor papa, it will be only to you and because of you,' Swann, in thus pinning a timorous and anxious hope of survival on his daughter after his death...

"...and she who ought to have kept his memory young, if not perpetuated it, found herself hastening and completing the work of death and oblivion." MP
p 800

Found the Cocteau quote in French:

Couché raide et de travers[...] dans un sarcophage de détritus d'âmes, de paysages, de tout ce qui ne put lui servir dans Balbec, Combray, Méséglise, dans la comtesse de Chavigné, le comte Greffhule, Haas et Robert de Montesquiou, bref, tel que nous admirâmes plus tard, pour la dernière fois, sa dépouille auprès de la pile de cahiers de son oeuvre qui continuait, elle, à vivre à sa gauche comme le bracelet-montre des soldats morts, Marcel Proust nous lisait, chaque nuit, Du côté de chez Swann.

From The Difficulty of Being by Jean Cocteau

http://www-syscom.univ-mlv.fr/~vignat...

Book Portrait wrote: "...dans un sarcophage de détritus d'âmes, de paysages, de tout ce qui ne put lui servir dans Balbec, Combray, Méséglise..."

What an image...
I looked at the text in the link. Doesn't Cocteau write so eloquently? It's interesting to get a glimpse of what Proust's life was in those years before he died from someone who was there.

Fionnuala wrote: "Doesn't Cocteau write so eloquently? It's interesting to get a glimpse of what Proust's life was in those years before he died from someone who was there."

Absolutely! I love how he describes the moments when Proust read out loud from his work and giggled and laughed. Not exactly how he is otherwise portrayed but so endearing. :)

Cocteau's book goes on my to-read list for 2014. And Paul Morand, who was another close friend of Proust and a very talented writer, must have written about Proust too... need to find in which book that would be...

Fionnuala you need to read Céleste's book. It was vividly written and made me imagine so clearly Proust's life in his last few years...