Middle East/North African Lit discussion

There are so many viewpoints when it comes to read history , this is a thread where we can discuss our picks in history books .

I opened this thread and will try to collect some posts from here and there that is related .

From 2012 Feedback and 2013 Plan - post 19



Ardene wrote: "Not sure where to put this, I've run across another author to consider for history (non-fiction) in the Middle East, although I think his viewpoint would be controversial - Efraim Karsh,born and raised in Israel. Both Islamic Imperialism (Yale U. Press) & Empires of Sand are available at my public library.

What interests me about these titles is that Karsh downplays the role of the west and argues for the interaction of various regions and groups in the formation of the current political dilemmas...."

My post :

I don't have any data about the author or the books , but here is a discussion with my of my friends about Empires of the Sand: The Struggle for Mastery in the Middle East, 1789-1923 , in here

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

From Book recommendations , post 148

Ardene wrote: "Ardene (booksnpeaches) | 17 comments Is anyone familiar with Islamic Imperialism: A History by Efraim Karsh? Ran across it at work today, pub. 2006 by Yale University Press. I'm looking for something to educte myself on history of Ottoman Empire, following on Peace to end all peace by Fromkin this year..."

From Book recommendations , post 151

Nile daughter wrote: "I didn't hear about the book before , but I am trying to learn more about Ottoman Empire myself , so far I only reached some recommendations in Arabic , if I reach any I will let you know , please do the same :)

BTW , did you hear of The Arabs: A History , it is not particularly about Ottoman Empire , but the issues it covers seems wide , I want to put my hands on that book ..."

Yesterday I added The Ottoman Centuries to my bookshelves , but I am not sure how good it is , anyone has any data ?

Posted by okyrhoe in Book recommendations - message 152 :

Ardene wrote: "Is anyone familiar with Islamic Imperialism by Efraim Karsh? Ran across it at work today, pub. 2006 by Yale University Press. I'm looking for something to educte myself on history of Ottoman Empire..."

Hi Ardene,

I haven't heard about the book before, or anything about the author, but I can wager a bet (judging from the book's description here on GR) that this work is a polemic rather than a historical survey of the Ottoman era.
Personally, I'd hesitate to read it unless I was already familiar with the historical background, in order to be able to better navigate through his arguments.
I fear he's making an over-generalization (connecting the Ottoman era to 9/11, according to the GR description), such as someone might make about "Shinto Imperialism" to discuss Japan's forays into mainland Asia & the Pacific, and then the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or using "Catholic Imperialism" for a book on the Fourth Crusade and the pillaging of Constantinople.

Nile daughter wrote: "Yesterday I added The Ottoman Centuries to my bookshelves , but I am not sure how good it is , anyone has any data ?"

I own this book but I have yet to read it so I can't really offer any insight on it yet.

Okyrhoe - thanks for your comment - I suspect you're correct. I started the book(Islamic Imperialism), but somewhere in the first or second chapter he used "Iraqi" to describe people in the 7th century (I assume people from the region we know as the country of Iraq.)Since I know Iraq wasn't a country in the 7th century, I stopped reading.

ETA - Don't use a term that wasn't in use at the time to describe people unless you first explain why you're using it instead of a term that would have been in use at the time.

Found another one that I'm putting on my to read list since my local library owns it. However, it's by a history professor from Scotland, so doesn't really meet our definition of reads for this group.

When Baghdad ruled the Muslim world by Hugh Kennedy is about the Abbasid Empire.

Message #4: Nile daughter, thanks - my library has this book, and it does look interesting.

I also ran across this title The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History, an Islamic history of the premodern world (abridged at over 400 pages). sorry if I seem to dumping titles, here, but that way they are all in one palce.

Ardene wrote: "Found another one that I'm putting on my to read list since my local library owns it. However, it's by a history professor from Scotland, so doesn't really meet our definition of reads for this gro..."

I think "When Baghdad ruled the world" may be a good book , we discussed here early this year The Great Arab Conquests: How The Spread Of Islam Changed The World We Live In for Hugh Kennedy, as I remember the book stopped before the golden era " the Abbasid Empire" , and I guess he talked about it in detail in When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World: The Rise and Fall of Islam's Greatest Dynasty , and Andalus in a third book Muslim Spain and Portugal: A Political History of Al-Andalus . but I guess "The Great Arab Conquests" is his most famous book and it has been translated into Arabic as well .

Ardene wrote: "Message #4: Nile daughter, thanks - my library has this book, and it does look interesting.

I also ran across this title The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History, an Islamic history of the premo..."

" The Muqaddimah" is one of the books that I think I must read some day , thanks for bringing it up here .

One of the books that I want to read as well is Lost History: The Enduring Legacy of Muslim Scientists, Thinkers, and Artists

Cassandra added some recommendations in
2012 Feedback and 2013 Plan - post 25 , so I will re-post what is related in here :

Women and the Fatimids in the World of Islam

Peace Be upon You: The Story of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Coexistence

I am not sure if this book fits here but I thought of adding it as it can complete the pictures with some other books Islam Between East and West

Alex wrote: "another great introduction to al-Andalus (Muslim Spain) is Maria Rosa Menocal's The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews, and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain. It is ..."

I took a course on Islamic Spain at uni, and that book's been on my wishlist ever since! For people who are interested in Al Andalus and that period in general, I can recommend The Medieval Spains by Bernard F. Reilly. That's the textbook we used for the course, and it's really interesting. It focuses on both Islamic and Christian Spain.

Thanks Alex The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews, and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain sounds a very good book .

Thanks Philippa for the recommendation as well , I think we can arrange for reading about al-Andalus here at some point by putting group plan more into order .

anyone heard of Peace Be upon You: The Story of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Coexistence ?

Nile daughter wrote: "anyone heard of Peace Be upon You: The Story of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Coexistence ?"

I've heard of it, and I believe it's on my to-read list. Haven't had a chance to buy it though.

Philippa (eat, read, explore) wrote: "I've heard of it, and I believe it's on my to-read list. Haven't had a chance to buy it though...."

Then please tell me your opinion if you ever read it .

Nile daughter wrote: "Philippa (eat, read, explore) wrote: "I've heard of it, and I believe it's on my to-read list. Haven't had a chance to buy it though...."

Then please tell me your opinion if you ever read it ."

I will! :)

Nile daughter wrote: "anyone heard of Peace Be upon You: The Story of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Coexistence ?"

I own it and it's on my to read list but it's probably number 10 on the list and if I'm lucky (kids take most of my free time) I read about 1 book a month so maybe around October I could offer some feedback on it. :)

Not familiar with Peach be upon you. My library owns an Ornament of the world, so I'd be interested in a group read at some point.

Ardene wrote: "Not familiar with Peach be upon you. My library owns an Ornament of the world, so I'd be interested in a group read at some point."

Our next stop in regional tour (starting in May - I guess) will be covering "West Arab countries" , when we come to historical topics; I guess Medieval Spain or Andalus could be included .

Cassandra wrote: "Nile daughter wrote: "anyone heard of Peace Be upon You: The Story of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Coexistence ?"

I own it and it's on my to read list but it's probably number 10 on the list and ..."

:D will be waiting for your feedback .

Anyone is interested in reading about "Andalus" /Medieval Spain in the near future ?

Nile daughter wrote: "Anyone is interested in reading about "Andalus" /Medieval Spain in the near future ?"

I am, definitely :)

Philippa (eat, read, explore) wrote: "Nile daughter wrote: "Anyone is interested in reading about "Andalus" /Medieval Spain in the near future ?"

I am, definitely :)"

Any book in mind ?
I read A History of Islamic Spain two years ago , now i was checking The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews, and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain


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Not about Medieval Spain directly but I hope someone would encourage me to read it with me Lost History: The Enduring Legacy of Muslim Scientists, Thinkers, and Artists

I would love to read 'Ornament of the World'. Let's see if I can get my hands on a copy of that one.

I'd be interested in reading "Ornament of the World" also and my library has it.

Great :D

What is the most comfortable reading date for you ?
I was thinking of 10 or 15 May but I am open for suggestions ...

Mid May would probably be OK for me. I'll request it from the library once the date is set.

Assuming I can get ahold of Ornament of the World I would like to read it. I'm also interested in reading Lost History: The Enduring Legacy of Muslim Scientists, Thinkers, and Artists... it's on my to read list but I have yet to buy or borrow it.

i definitely want to read that Ornament of the World! i bought it on a whim years ago but have never gotten around to reading it. :/

So should I set a date for reading this book on 15/5/2013 ?

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Cassandra wrote: "I'm also interested in reading Lost History..."

We can set a date for this one at some point as well :)

Nile daughter wrote: "So should I set a date for reading this book on 15/5/2013 ?"

sounds good to me! :)

Sounds like a plan!

Great :D I will mark it as upcoming read ...

Ardene wrote: "Okyrhoe - thanks for your comment - I suspect you're correct. I started the book(Islamic Imperialism), but somewhere in the first or second chapter he used "Iraqi" to describe people in the 7th cen..."

Just wanted to point out that just because Iraq wasn't an actual country before the twentieth century doesn't mean the word wasn't being used. It was already in use in the 7th century, based on a quick search, so your argument doesn't really work. Although that said, based on what I know about Efraim Karsh, I wouldn't really recommend his books either (even if they're supposed to be surprisingly impartial for someone who has written such one-sided things about the 1948 war).

For the history of the Osman Empire, which someone was asking about, I can recommend Caroline Finkel's great "Osman's Dream".

And Nile daughter, I'd be very much interested in a read/discussion of Al Muqaddimah! I just bought a translation so I can read it alongside my Arabic copy.

Paul wrote: "Ardene wrote: "Okyrhoe - thanks for your comment - I suspect you're correct. I started the book(Islamic Imperialism), but somewhere in the first or second chapter he used "Iraqi" to describe people..."

Hi Paul ,

I will add Osman's Dream: The History of the Ottoman Empire to the bookshelves , thanks .

As for The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History , I guess this could be one of our options for the next reading in this section . but I am afraid it will probably be by December or so - regarding the other projects in the group . if the plan changes I will let you know .

Quick survey for 2014

we are just checking how many is willing to read in history again ? and when ?
Which of the following to start with (or something else ?)

Lost History: The Enduring Legacy of Muslim Scientists, Thinkers, and Artists

Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World through Islamic Eyes

A History of the Arab Peoples with a New Afterword

When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World: The Rise and Fall of Islam's Greatest Dynasty

I definitely am! the second two especially, but i'd likely join in with any of those. :)

I'd like to read the first and fourth of those options. I've already read #3, and find it the best consistent historical reference in my field of work!

I have library access to 1, 2 and 4. So I would consider any of those.

I'm open to reading all of those. I've read Destiny Disrupted but I'm open to rereading and discussing. I've read sections of a different edition of A History of the Arab Peoples but never the whole thing. Lost History and When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World are both on my reading lists too.

2 and 4 are for me to read 3 is excellent but i read it many years ago so i will recommend it for the others

Great ....:D
when? any preference. ... in the beginning or middle of 2014 ?

Begining of the year will be perfect for me.

I would actually love to read them all, but that's a little impossible for me this year, so I'll go with what the majority decides and I'll tag along whenever I can.

maybe the first few months of the year.

I'm open to when but I'd love to start January. I'd say maybe the best choice would be 4 since it was on everyones list while the other selections varied more.

Yes, it seems that When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World: The Rise and Fall of Islam's Greatest Dynastyis the common book !:)

I remember some said it will be interesting to see the The Abbasid Caliphate path after we discussed The Umayyad Caliphate before and in Al Andalus .besides we will be reading this year about Iraq too .

So let us go for it :)