The History Book Club discussion

This is the Week Eight thread for the next Presidential Series selection (The Years of Lyndon Johnson: The Passage of Power) by Robert A. Caro.

The week's reading assignment is:

Week EIGHT - November 5th - November 11th -> Chapters THIRTEEN & FOURTEEN p. 339 - 377
THIRTEEN - Aboard Air Force One and FOURTEEN - Three Encounters

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to begin reading this selection and/or to post.

Bryan Craig is the assisting moderator who will be leading this discussion. We hope you enjoy this discussion of another great book in the Presidential Series.

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS

Notes

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Glossary

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Bibliography

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Table of Contents and Syllabus

Here is the link:
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Welcome,

~Bryan

Robert A. Caro

I think these two chapters shed light on just how much is involved in the transition of the assumption of office . . . and as Caro points out LBJ had soooo many things to have to consider.

One moment he was not President--and the next moment he was. The interval between the moment he arrived in the cubicle at Parkland Hospital and the moment he took the oath on Air Force One--the time he had in which to prepare himself--was slightly less than two hours. p.472/1041 Nook eBook app.

I think it was amazing that he had the fortitude to be able to gets his wits about him enough to accomplish anything . . . especially since he had been frozen out of the loop of so many meetings.

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Chapter Thirteen: Aboard Air Force Once

With the advent of television, the Kennedy assassination became more shocking and horrifying event. LBJ was in a difficult position. He had to convince Kennedy aides to stay, but many were loyal to him, so it was not easy. LBJ did not command respect in the White House, either. Liberals in Congress did not trust him, and LBJ faced a logjam of legislation. He also faced an election less than a year away and a budget in less than two months.

On the plane, Kennedy people were in the back and LBJ was working out his next steps. He needed to talk with White House staff, Cabinet, and Congressional leaders. Also, he needed to orchestrate the events after the plane landed. Once the plane did land, RFK, hopped on and pushed his way to Jackie. In doing so, he brushed by LBJ, ignoring him. The lift was used for Kennedy's coffin, but there were no stairs for LBJ. He had to wait. However, he did not complain. He made a brief statement, then went to the Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office.

After working, he had Moyers, Carter, and Valenti come to his house and they sketched out an agenda for the next day.

Chapter Fourteen: Three Encounters

While JFK's body was at the East Room, Bundy decided that the best thing for LBJ to do was not to move into the Oval Office until Monday. He left the note at LBJ's office. However, LBJ did not get the note and LBJ came into the Oval Office. He asked Evelyn Lincoln, who was cleaning out files, when his secretaries could come. Word spread of this encounter and LBJ backed off and did not move in until 3 days later.

RFK arrived late to the cabinet meeting and LBJ saw this as insulting. LBJ was asking the Cabinet to stay on and that he needed them.

LBJ also had to decided when to give a address to the joint session. RFK wanted the president to wait one day after the funeral and felt LBJ was pushing this date too hard. LBJ backed off.

Tomerobber wrote: "I think these two chapters shed light on just how much is involved in the transition of the assumption of office . . . and as Caro points out LBJ had soooo many things to have to consider.

One mom..."

Absolutely, Tomerobber. Normally, it takes a couple of months with teams of aides working out the details with an election 4 years ahead of you. I can't image you had to put together a final federal budget in a matter of weeks.

You really begin to appreciate the skill this man had to formulate an agenda. And he does not seem to be a hands-off manager, either.

Here is the transcript and audio recording of LBJ and Lady Bird's call to Rose Kennedy:

http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndo...

What is equally impressive is LBJ is fighting fear and doubt. Again, Caro brings up the words "illegitimate," "naked," even "illegal." Clearly, this is in LBJ's head.

Here is a helpful image (albeit small) of LBJ waiting while the coffin and the Kennedy group are in the airplane lift:



You can see there are no stairs.

Bryan wrote: "Here is a helpful image (albeit small) of LBJ waiting while the coffin and the Kennedy group are in the airplane lift."

This is the D.C. arrival shot, correct?

It is, Mark.

Thank you so much for the picture, Bryan. I was really having trouble picturing this.

These two chapters really show LBJ at his best - organized, decisive, and making good decisions about trying to retain Kennedy's people and about assuming power in a definitive, but non-offensive way.

I am willing to cut RFK a lot of slack because of his grief and shock at his brother's death, but I can see how LBJ was offended by his lateness to the Cabinet meeting and his insistence that the address to Congress be delayed one more day - too many similar incidents in the past.

I was touched that LBJ thought to write to the Kennedy children and the boss of the Secret Service agent who protected him during the assassination.

I was surprised by LBJ's very deep inferiority complex about the well-educated Kennedy men. I am a bit surprised that he did not try to educate himself more by reading books, in light of this insecurity. But I think he was just one of those extroverted people who gets all of his energy from interpersonal connections rather than abstract ideas and books. He did have enormous political skills when it came to Congress, and he was cool in a crisis, which were tremendous assets under these conditions.

The gridlock in Congress reminded me of our present day. Kennedy's legislative agenda seemed truly stuck until Johnson took over. Of course, Johnson had the "advantage" of tying its passage to the wishes of a martyred president. Still, it is hard to imagine the Civil Rights Bills, Medicare, and Kennedy tax cuts passing without him.

Thank you for the information on Lady Bird, Cheryl. I have been wondering what role she played in LBJ's life.

I recently watched a documentary "Ethel" about Ethel Kennedy. It was made by her youngest daughter Rory and shown on HBO. The film is a lot about Bobby as well. I ended up liking Ethel a lot more than I had anticipated - a very strong, energetic, and supportive woman, who was an important part of his success.

Ann wrote: "Thank you so much for the picture, Bryan. I was really having trouble picturing this.

These two chapters really show LBJ at his best - organized, decisive, and making good decisions about trying t..."

I was impressed by LBJ's action and taking the time to write those letters.

I think you make a great point about using JFK's death as a way to get legislation through. Congress was pretty divided by liberals and southern elements. It had its own deadlock that I think Caro does not discuss too much at this point. Congress since FDR had been pushing back against the president. We see this more near the end of LBJ's full term and then Nixon on.

Cheryl wrote: " by

In reading Kati Marton's book, specifically Lyndon and Lady Bird's marriage, the compar..."

Great, Cheryl. I heard Lady Bird made a good balance for LBJ. I loved Lady Bird's quote about not feeling inferior to the Kennedys. Only if LBJ thought the same way...

If an author does not have a photo, just add the link:

Kati Marton

Ann wrote: "Thank you for the information on Lady Bird, Cheryl. I have been wondering what role she played in LBJ's life.

I recently watched a documentary "Ethel" about Ethel Kennedy. It was made by her youn..."

I hear good things about this movie. It was in town for our film festival, but I couldn't see it. Rory Kennedy came for it.

I also think that the "snub" between LBJ and RFK was not intentional. RFK was in deep shock and grief and he could only focus on his family. However, I do think he might have acted a little different if RFK and LBJ were closer. Maybe he might have said something to LBJ in the plane aisle as he was going to Jackie, or understood about timing for the Oval Office move in.

I also think LBJ was a convenient person for RFK to lash out his grief.

Bryan,
We don't subscribe to HBO, but we saw the film while we were waiting out the hurricane in a hotel. If you get Netflix, it would be worth renting.

Thanks, Ann, I added it to my queue :-). I think the film covers some of the time he studied at UVA law school, just down the road from me.

Interesting about the LBJ stories. You do have to say he is a unique individual, full of life. Sometimes from the outside, you can't see how a marriage works, but it does.

Cheryl,
Thanks for the heads up on the Marton book . . . another one to add to my stash.

Cheryl . . . I bought the eBook from the iTunes store . . so there's another one added to my TBR stash! :-)

I've had a sample of that book, Cheryl, on my ereader for some time now. I hope to get to read it in the near future.

Cheryl wrote: "Bryan wrote: "...you can't see how a marriage works, but it does."

Bryan, It is hard to read that Johnson had multiple affairs, some with secretaries years younger than he. Lady Bird knew about ea..."

LBJ claimed he had more women than JFK. Great stories, thanks, Cheryl.

Cheryl wrote: "You'll be surprised that Nixon never discussed his probable impeachment closing in on him with Pat, Julie or Trisha. Finally when the tape revealed his plan to cover up Watergate by in..."

Nixon was pretty insular man when it came to these cover-ups. I can believe he said that to Julie.

Here is LBJ's statement after arriving in D.C.:

This is a sad time for all people. We have suffered a loss that cannot be weighed. For me, it is a deep personal tragedy. I know that the world shares the sorrow that Mrs. Kennedy and her family bear. I will do my best. That is all I can do. I ask for your help--and God's.

Image of document:
http://research.archives.gov/descript...

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xwscn...

I think LBJ did well as he could during this time given the difficult circumstances. It must have been really hard stepping into Kennedy's shoes in general, let alone due to such a tragedy. Aside from the Evelyn Lincoln miscommunication with the Oval office, it sounded like the transition was as smooth on LBJ's side as you could get. Even though he was trying to get Kennedy's men to stay on for his own sake, he was as tactful and sympathetic as possible. Of course, those politicians can really turn it on when they want to.

It must have been really hard for RFK to see the man he really disliked and had no respect for assume his brother's post. Not only because of his brother's memory but because he also wanted the job. He probably looked on LBJ as a usurper and that caused a lot of resentment as well.

Theresa wrote: "I think LBJ did well as he could during this time given the difficult circumstances. It must have been really hard stepping into Kennedy's shoes in general, let alone due to such a tragedy. Aside f..."

Thanks, Theresa. Minus the Kennedy encounters, I agree, think the transition was smooth. LBJ really worked hard to make that happen.

Cheryl wrote: "Hi Theresa,

I agree with you. Despite his possible selfish motives, he humbled himself and did what was right for the transition (asking the Kennedy men to support him).

Watching the video Bryan ..."

Yeah, I think you have to give LBJ props for steering the country through a very difficult time.

I have to say that if email was around back then, I bet O'Donnell would have sent an email to LBJ's smartphone and avoid the Oval Office incident with Lincoln.

Email is more difficult because you can't read emotions in them for the most part. LBJ was smart to get in front of the cameras even when he knew it was not his strong suit.

You are welcome, Cheryl.

I am unfortunately still catching up but I wanted to say that I saw the movie "Lincoln". First I want to thank Goodreads, the moderators and participants for reintroducing me to rigor in reading, and subsequently historical movies. It made the experience of Lincoln that much deeper. Second, I realized that after 150 years, I and if many others in the audience were any indication, still grieve that presidents death. Truly grieve his loss for the country. In 100 years, will the same be said of Kennedy? Did he have the same monumental effect on the course of the country? I am not being disrespectful to Kennedy, I am just saying that the media age which he introduced is continuing his story more than the posterity of his actions. It seems more likely based on Caro's book so far, that LBJ's legacy, for good or bad, has been felt with greater impact.

Great questions, G. Lincoln has a measure of stature that I think transcends time: freeing slaves, winning a civil war.

It will be interesting to see what will happen when the generation that lived through Kennedy's time pass on. I don't know if his stature will stay so strong. But I don't think it will disappear, because he died in office so young. Like Lincoln, it has a certain affect on people.