Chaos Reading discussion

So I have far too many books on the go at once, but I've accepted the challenge! I have had this on my must-buy shelf for a while now, and I've just found a $6 Kindle edition, so I'm in!

It might take me a while, given the four books we have going in the December Group Read Extravaganza, but I'll get there.....

Okay. I'm only 3% into this 600 page book, so it's VERY early days, but I wanted Karen to know I haven't forgotten her challenge to read Floating Worlds!

The GR reviews seem really mixed, but a polarising book is often a good book in my view. In fact the reasons people give for disliking the book make me want to read it - A plot that jumps around a lot? Very little direct exposition or explanation? Something you have to really think hard about? I'm in! Plus the way people are talking about it puts me in mind of Embassytown, a book I like a lot more than my 3 star rating would seem to indicate.

My first impression on starting the book was that it must have been written in the US of the 1970s: The references to typing being a commonly required job skill (2,000 years in the future), the stencilled sweat shirts (2,000 years into the future), the description of the attractive Aztec/Asian features of the roommate, the "aircars" and "airbuses", the dystopian/socio-political slant involving the over-use of committees, the macrame & vegies vibe of the apartment..... you get my drift. Turns out it was written in 1975. THAT's how good I am :P So far it hasn't been dated to a degree that's distracting though. It helps if you think of it as an alternative history (set in the future, if that makes sense).

I did find the very beginning of the book to be a little contrived. The book begins on a (view spoiler)[visit to Manhattan which has been preserved in a bubble underwater (hide spoiler)] to demonstrate that it's the future and the world we know is long dead, while at the same time the characters launch into a conversation about having to (view spoiler)[ask the State if they can have a baby (hide spoiler)] signifying that this is dystopia baby!

Regardless, there has been some snarky humour, and there have been just enough teasers to keep me intrigued, so I'm looking forward to getting into it properly now..

Ruby wrote: "Okay. I'm only 3% into this 600 page book, so it's VERY early days, but I wanted Karen to know I haven't forgotten her challenge to read Floating Worlds!

The GR reviews seem really mixed, but a p..."

WOW, 1975 it was and you are good. In case you're interested this is the only Sci Fi book Holland wrote. She is widely known as a successful writer of historical fiction. Maybe you already know this. Anyway, one of these books Great Maria, has been used in feminist literature as an example of womens lot in the dark ages.

Thanks, Karen. I didn't know anything about the book or the author prior to this, but I did look up her other books last night on GR. Have you read Great Maria?

Wow - How annoying that the GR search for the "Great Maria" title link doesn't list the book until three pages in, after Don Quixote, The Divine Comedy and Huckleberry Finn!

Ruby wrote: "Thanks, Karen. I didn't know anything about the book or the author prior to this, but I did look up her other books last night on GR. Have you read Great Maria?

Wow - How annoying that the GR sear..."I read Great Maria and liked it. Set in the England during the Dark Ages, it is the life story of a young girl forced into a marriage of convenience. Holland is primarily known for her historical fiction. I found her style very straight forward which for me is a plus.

Thanks Karen. I'm about 20% through, but now that I've finished the December Extravaganza books (as of 4.15am today, when I finished Triffids), I can concentrate on this one a bit more. It took me a little while to get into it, but I'm enjoying it a bit more now.

I'm not loving Paula's relationship with the Styth though, I have to say. All a bit...... rapey.

(23%)
I should qualify that statement, really. The whole point of the book (it seems to me at this point) is to contrast two very different cultures and challenge the reader's worldview. It is certainly doing that! I'm quite intrigued to see where it's going actually..

(26%)
Just an aside, but I just read the part where (view spoiler)[Paula's dealing with zero gravity, crushing pressure etc aboard the Styth ship, and she's just spent the night in the wet-room: essentially a vinyl & foam padded....tube. Unable to open her eyelids for the gravity, fully enclosed, shrouded in alien spacecraft noise..... Brrrr. (hide spoiler)]Seriously found that quite disturbing!

Ruby wrote: "(26%)
Just an aside, but I just read the part where [spoilers removed]Seriously found that quite disturbing!" I know what you mean. I think Holland really worked to put the reader in various uncomfortable, threatening alien situations using this as a means to build her Styth characters and culture.

(34%) One thing I'm struggling with right now is the character of Paula. Holland doesn't tell us what she's thinking or feeling, (or any of the other characters for that matter) or what motivates her to do the things she does. It's very hard to connect with a character you can't understand. I'm not sure if she's meant to come across as detached as she seems.

Ruby wrote: "(34%) One thing I'm struggling with right now is the character of Paula. Holland doesn't tell us what she's thinking or feeling, (or any of the other characters for that matter) or what motivates h..." Everything I have read by Holland is written in the 'here and now' and it is up to the reader to embellish as they wish. My own take was that Paula was driven, first by the insecurity of her future, second by her early success with the Styths and third most important by her need to determine her own fate. Also, there is the fact that both Paula and the Styths are black and fighting their battles etc. with the KKK style Sunlight League and therefore coming into every situation as an underdog. WHEW. I did'nt know I had that much to say. :-)

I think for each situation, there could be a number of different interpretations of why she does each thing. I really would prefer to have some idea of what she's feeling about situations, or at least some sense of her reactions. The writing style is just a bit too "factual" for my liking, and the characters a bit two-dimensional. It's still intriguing though. I'm almost halfway through and still have no idea what it is that I'm reading!

So now I'm 70% of the way through, and still have no idea what it is that I'm reading! It's a fascinatingly unique book, and I am enjoying it. I spend 90% of my time not quite sure what's going on though- a bit baffled by the politics, and with no idea what motivates the main character - but I'm still interested. I'm hoping that the ending will give me some kind of insight....

At this point I'm wondering how much of it is deliberate, and how much is due to the fact that apart from this novel, she only wrote historical novels. I'm wondering if perhaps she's just "sticking to the facts" and forgetting that we need to know what's going on inside the character's hearts and minds as well! I still don't feel like I know the main character.

I will say this too - the lack of emotional detail does give some of the more dramatic scenes a lot more impact. Sometimes the action just drops like a hammer.

Ruby wrote: "At this point I'm wondering how much of it is deliberate, and how much is due to the fact that apart from this novel, she only wrote historical novels. I'm wondering if perhaps she's just "sticking..." I think this is true. This is the only spec fiction book she wrote and I believe only the third or fourth of a long string of novels. I think she was trying to write a 'future' history based on the times (early 70's political attitutes, prejudices etc. In Great Maria, which is historical fiction, you don't really get to know the characters, instead you get to live their lives. I have to add that these are the only two Holland books I like. The rest are too many facts and not enough story for me.

Karen wrote: "Ruby wrote: "At this point I'm wondering how much of it is deliberate, and how much is due to the fact that apart from this novel, she only wrote historical novels. I'm wondering if perhaps she's j..."

That should really irritate me but by this stage of the book, (88%), I'm starting to think it works in the book's favour.

I've finally written my review, which is pretty much just a summary of what we discussed here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I'm glad I read this, as it was a unique experience and the cross-cultural stuff was really affecting. It's certainly food for thought, and I doubt I'll ever forget the book for this reason.

I just wish she'd been a skilled enough writer to pull it all together.

Ruby wrote: "I've finally written my review, which is pretty much just a summary of what we discussed here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I'm glad I read this, as it was a unique experience an..." I'm glad you got something from this book. I like this Rolling Challenge idea as it lets us all get a new perspective on books we feel strongly about. I read your review and do have comments but presently fighting the flu (I even got the shot), so more later.

Thanks Karen - I'm glad you recommended this. I'll be interested to keep chatting about it. There's certainly enough to discuss!

Karen wrote: "Ruby wrote: "I've finally written my review, which is pretty much just a summary of what we discussed here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I'm glad I read this, as it was a unique ..."It's true that all the action is in the present tense, with little or no explanation. Paula joins the Commitee becoming their contact with the Styths why? In my mind to find a different way to live where power would be on her side. All that violence, sex etc, does'nt seem to bother her or keep her from her goal. In some cases she actually is asking for it just to further a connection. The Styth's, one time mining mutant slaves, now masters of one of the most valuable resources in our solar system are out to prove their place as the genectic superiors to the human contingent which of course, is the Sunlight League, equally dedicated to system denomitation with the aid of the Lunar Military complex and all the interactions, plotting etc. just happen. I think you are right in that Holland was really writing a history not a Sci Fi book. I found Paula to be a truly unique character but then I read this when it came out so the mechinisisms of the characters were of my times and did not seem dated to me. What did you think of the special powers some of the Styths had and thier use of them, especially Tanjan (whatever), I was thinking about some of that stuff long after I finished the book.

Karen wrote: "What did you think of the special powers some of the Styths had and thier use of them, especially Tanjan (whatever), I was thinking about some of that stuff long after I finished the book. ..."

I didn't really enjoy that part. It was just too much going on! I did find the zombification of the diplomats very creepy though. Every time it entered into Paula's storyline though, I was groaning inwardly. As if there wasn't enough going on for her to deal with!

I did think Paula was certainly enigmatic, but I felt sorry for her poor child. Which is more than she did. She didn't even really mourn his death.

I know. It seemed like she was more attached to her friend Syrl(not sure I am remembering the name right) then her own son becuase she did mourn him when she found his body dyring the last days on earth and why was that I wonder. Because her son rejected her heritage and thought of her as a slave and not his equal? I don't know. I do know that when I read this I felt like Holland was trying to paint a picture of a hardcore 70's feminist who would do anything for the 'movement' and there were some really strident, militant feminists making the news back in those days. This is not to say that I was or am anti-feminist but I don't think that Paula's anarchy is the answer. On another tack, the only other Sci Fi writer I have read that builds major socio-econimic worlds like the world in this book is C.J. Cherryh. Any thoughts?

Karen wrote: "I know. It seemed like she was more attached to her friend Syrl(not sure I am remembering the name right) then her own son becuase she did mourn him when she found his body dyring the last days on..."

That's true about Sril (also Pedasen, the eunuch).

With regard to the socio-economic world building, my mind went straight to Cory Doctorow's book, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (NOT that I'm recommending it). He uses a system called "wuffie" where esteem/respect/fame equals money. I believe this is based on some works of 60s sci-fi, and I googled it at the time. Just can't remember who wrote it!

I am not familiar with the Doctorow book. Is it good? Back to FW, did you notice that altho the Styth culture is strongly chauvinistic, this does not necessarily apply to Paula who keeps breaking the rules and getting away with it, It's true she is punished but then it seems she gets her way in the end anyway. It seemed to me that in the end, her enemies were her friends so as close to friends as the author allowed.

My review for the Doctorow book is here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

It's one of Doctorow's earlier books, which are a bit..... scattered. he has big, wonderful ideas, but is also a bit ADD so he never follows them through to a logical conclusion. He gets sidetracked. Also, he's primarily a tech blogger, rather than a professional full-time author of fiction. He's not that skilled as a writer, although he has improved in his recent books. Then again, he's also gone very soapboxy of late.

I do think they're consistently chauvinistic with Paula, even if she's not treated like a Styth woman. They keep her around for what they can get from her, but some of the scenes made me flinch with the way they treated her. At one point, they were saying "Be still. Good girl, Paula." while restraining her. Just like talking to a dog. And when she gave birth........!!!! *gags a little*

Yeah, I forgot about that whole birth sequence and that was pretty raw. Do the Styths get points for saving her life? I have to say that I have never read anything remotely like this book. All the constructs, everyone living some sort of domed, protected environment, all the different and actually conflicting explanations of what happened to the earth enivorment and how did they Styths actually find or clean a safe place in the open air for Paula in the end. A strange book and none of my friends read Sci Fi. Thanks again for picking up the challenge. I am learning alot from this exercise and the other challenge I am following.