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December 2012 - YA/Crossover
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I'm going to be reading the Wool series because I've heard so many great things about it through word of mouth. And because the Kindle omnibus version of this is available today for 1.99 as an Amazon Black Friday deal!
Hi all!I'm excited for this topic! I read a lot of YA myself, and would even if I didn't work with teens (well, more with tweens these days, since I'm up in the children's room now).
I'm torn between choosing a YA novel with adult crossover appeal, or an adult novel with teen crossover appeal...decisions, decisions.
I'm deciding between The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian and something by David Levithan. I'll see what I can get my hands on first...
Mod
I started Absolutely True Diary at lunch today and I didn't want to stop! Someone also recommended Speak, so I might try that next.Even though I don't read a lot of YA, one series that I recently really enjoyed is Dangerous Angels: The Weetzie Bat Books by Francesca Lia Block.
Um, this is a greatest topic ever. I would also encourage audiobooks for a lot of these: especially the The Night Circus,The Fault In Our Stars and The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. I'm going to take this month to check out Unwind by Neal Shusterman P.S. I've dropped off of this group but hi again!
Best. Book. Club. Ever. So to start the month I'm reading The Selection by Kiera Cass, just to see if its as bad as they say, and then moving on to Code Name Verity. I'm sure that won't be the last of it!
I'm glad everyone is so excited about this month's topic! But, at the risk of making myself unpopular here, can I ask why? I agree that having good YA books is really important for young adults, and I agree that it can be really fun to read as an adult, too. What I don't always understand is the enthusiasm and devotion that so many adults have for YA fiction. Why has it become the preferred genre for so many adults? What do you get from it that you can't get from adult fiction?
Kate wrote: "I'm glad everyone is so excited about this month's topic! But, at the risk of making myself unpopular here, can I ask why? I agree that having good YA books is really important for young adults, an..."There was a really good debate on this in the New York Times earlier this year: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/...
Wait, Night Circus and Salvage the Bones are YA? How can you tell? This seems like a blurrier and blurrier distinction to me. That said, I have to add that I think the fascination with stuff like Hunger Games has to do with the fact that it scratches an itch for literate people who want something easier than, say, A.S. Byatt, but aren't interested in crap like Nora Roberts. It's smart and interesting, but not complex in the way of more adult literature. It's a break.
Kira wrote: "Wait, Night Circus and Salvage the Bones are YA? How can you tell? This seems like a blurrier and blurrier distinction to me."Those books were from the "Alex Awards", which they say are "books written for adults with special appeal to teens..." Here's their info: http://www.ala.org/yalsa/booklists/alex
Kate wrote: "I'm glad everyone is so excited about this month's topic! But, at the risk of making myself unpopular here, can I ask why?"My totally unfounded speculation is that perhaps YA books appeal because they tend to be more plot/story-driven than traditional so-called "literary fiction." This is not a difference of relative quality, but rather of style and form.
I will say that while I know lots of civilian (non-librarian) female friends who are, as Kate wrote, "devoted" YA readers -- I can't think of a single heterosexual male civilian friend who is similarly devoted to YA. Not sure what to make of that purely anecdotal data, since I'm not a huge YA reader, but feel free to speculate.
Tony wrote: "Kira wrote: "Wait, Night Circus and Salvage the Bones are YA? How can you tell? This seems like a blurrier and blurrier distinction to me."Those books were from the "Alex Awards", which they say ..."
OK, but that just begs the question, how do THEY know?
I just finished The Last Dragonslayer by Jasper Fforde. The protagonist is a 15 year old girl, and there is absolutely no romance. I loved it, but it's marketed as YA. However, it would take a rather precocious teen (male or female) to really love it. It is being compared to works by Prachett and even Douglas Adams.
Kira wrote: "Tony wrote: "Kira wrote: "Wait, Night Circus and Salvage the Bones are YA? How can you tell? This seems like a blurrier and blurrier distinction to me."Those books were from the "Alex Awards", wh..."
I think it honestly has to do with how the books are marketed and/or what imprint they are published under. Roughly, YA books usually deal with teenage characters, but that isn't always the case, of course.
Tony wrote: "Kate wrote: "I'm glad everyone is so excited about this month's topic! But, at the risk of making myself unpopular here, can I ask why?"My totally unfounded speculation is that perhaps YA books a..."
The Alex Awards are chosen by reviewers that are really well versed in teen literature. They pick the "adult" books that they feel might have a special interest to teens, based on other "teen" fiction they have read. This could mean characters they think might appeal to teens or a particular story line to which teens might relate. (I'm sure the teens themselves would be even better at this than adults) This would also include the reading level and difficulty of the novel.
Tony wrote: "Kate wrote: "I'm glad everyone is so excited about this month's topic! But, at the risk of making myself unpopular here, can I ask why?"My totally unfounded speculation is that perhaps YA books a..."
In discussions on fantasy & science fiction forums, I've definitely seen guys who've said they enjoy some authors who write YA as well as adult (such as Terry Pratchett, Cory Doctorow, Suzanne Collins etc) but feel uncomfortable walking into the YA section of a library or bookstore because they worry that it will be seen as creepy. I don't know if that's a factor.
Jamila wrote: "Kate wrote: "What I don't always understand is the enthusiasm and devotion that so many adults have for YA fiction. Why has it become the preferred genre for so many adults? What do you get from it..."Well, and also, I think people have discovered that YA is a lot more varied and more daring than it was back in the day, and YA is sometimes less wedded to genre distinctions/formulas than popular adult fiction can be.
Mod
I can't speak for a lot of the adults who read teen books because I've never liked the paranormal romance series that seem to be so popular, but to answer Kate's original question about why adults like YA books, for me it is the following things. Some of these were already mentioned by Tony, Erin and Jamila.
1. The authors show a willingness to blend genres and an ease in doing so that comes across as more showy than natural in a lot of the adult books I encounter.
2. optimism! Even in YA books where terrible things happen to the protagonists, there always seems to be an underlying hope that the future can be made better than the present, perhaps because of the younger age of the characters.
3. The characters. Rarely have I loved an adult character as much as the protagonists in Jasper Jones, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian or any book by John Green or Francisco X. Stork. Teen characters are allowed to have a vulnerability that would be sort of pathetic in an adult, but is completely adorable in them.
4. Many YA books have made me LITERALLY laugh out loud and tear up. In the same book. Adult books usually do one or the other, and then only rarely.
Mod
You are so right! I'd like to recommend the audio version of Jasper Jones because of the delightful accents. The story itself is fascinating and pretty dark, but the cute Australian accents lighten it up a bit.
Are you listening to Unwind? That audiobook is so intense! I had to pull my car over on M street and hyperventilate a bit when they did the unwinding scene, which of course means the reader did his job right.
Mod
My totally unfounded speculation is that perhaps YA books a..."
Like Erin said, I know a few heterosexual male closeted-YA readers. They all read history and epic fantasy in their non-secret reading life, so I think they are drawn to an emphasis on plot.
I agree with much of what Maria, Jamila and Erin pointed out. I wonder too if the YA adult readers now are of the post-Harry-Potter generation. They've been brought up to have a high opinion of children's/YA thus seek it out for all the reasons mentioned previously. My sense also is that adult YA readers are also always big adult fiction readers.
I wonder how adults who read YA books see themselves. I'm almost 29 and I honestly feel like a teen most of the time. Is that sad or what? Call me Peter but I'm not interested in growing up and all that comes along with it. I read and love my YA books because they help me keep in touch with my inner teenager.
Mod
That's not sad-- you are young at heart! I've heard tons of YA authors speak and read lots of interviews, and a lot of the best of them say that they still feel like teenagers inside no matter how old they get. I'm almost 28 and only in the last 2-3 years did I stop identifying with the teen protagonists of books and movies, and it was sad. It was like at some point adult characters, who used to be "other" became more recognizable, and younger characters became "other." But there was definitely a long delay-- at least a five year period where I was still intellectually (fictionally?) caught in a younger frame of mind. Anyone else? Does your preference in characters ages with you or are you stuck at a certain age in your mind?
On another note, I finished Wool Omnibusand I loved it! I'd highly recommend it to anyone who likes dystopias and character-driven stories. I don't think it is really YA though. It gets tagged as YA a lot, but that must be because it involves the same sort of post-apocalyptic scenario that so many YA books do, and it is also fairly clean in terms of sex and violence.
Has anyone else read it? I'm going to buy the prequels and I'm dying to discuss the series!
Maria wrote: "Does your preference in characters ages with you or are you stuck at a certain age in your mind?"I think it's less to do with age and more to do with life experiences that might track with age. For example, now that I'm a parent, my reaction to characters who are parents is completely different. Or if someone's had a close family member die, they probably react differently to fiction about loss than others do.
My reaction to teenage characters is generally driven by how fully-formed and true to life they feel. And that's often my issue with YA fiction, that the teenage characters don't feel complex enough to me.
This has been a great discussion. Thanks everyone!I really enjoyed both of the YA books I read this month (The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian and Every Day. They had great characters, the writing was good, and I read them much more quickly than I read most books, which always feels nice. While I don't think YA will ever be my go-to genre, I will probably be more likely to pick up YA books that pique my interest in the future.
Maybe I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but often, even in YA books I like, I find the melodrama and over reactions of the main characters, who are also usually the narrators, really annoying after a while. I think the first-person narration might be part of the problem for me with a lot of YA because I start feel stuck inside that one very emotional teenager's head and wish for some outside perspective.
Books on the Nightstand, a book podcast I listen to, recently discussed "New Adult" as a potential new book category. These are books that focus on the period between high school and being a settled adult. This is the period I'm in right now and I have found myself reading and enjoying a few books that I think fit into this category lately (The Kissing List, The Marriage Plot). After reading them, I felt that they were so attuned to what I've been experiencing, that I wasn't sure if people more removed from that time in their life would enjoy them at all. They seemed full of the melodrama of being in your 20s in the same way that YA books are full of the melodrama of being a teen.
There was an article in the NY Times yesterday about "new adult" books and apparently I somewhat misunderstood the term, "which some winkingly describe as Harry Potter meets 50 Shades of Grey.”http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/boo...
Mod
There have been a lot of books recently about 20-somethings who, due to the recession and the aftereffects of helicopter parenting, are stuck between adolescence and adulthood. Some that I enjoyed are
Treasure Island!!!, The Fallback Plan, and Leaving the Atocha Station.
Anyway, now that December is over, I hope everyone will still let us know when you encounter a YA book that you think we'd enjoy!
Apologies for being late to this discussion, but I've just spent the past three months working through a portion of Cybils Award* nominees as a judge in the Young Adult Realistic Fiction category, so I did want to chime in on a couple things:Jamila wrote: "Teen fiction is easy to devour..."
In our category, there were definitely the light-hearted, read-in-one-sitting books you're referring to. But there were also a good number of well-written, emotionally taut, and physically heavy books, too. I'd challenge anyone to get through The Storyteller by Antonia Michaelis or Elizabeth Wein's Code Name Verity without being gutted. I just don't think it's possible.
Kate wrote: "Maybe I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but often, even in YA books I like, I find the melodrama and over reactions of the main characters, who are also usually the narrators, really annoying after a while. I think the first-person narration might be part of the problem for me with a lot of YA because I start feel stuck inside that one very emotional teenager's head and wish for some outside perspective."
Kate, if you haven't already read Code Name Verity, I'd suggest having a go. Not a smidge of whining in this novel about a teen spy captured by the Nazis behind enemy lines during WWII.
*Cybils Award=Children and Young Adult Bloggers' Literary Award
Mod
Did you have any other favorites, Kirstin?
Thanks for the recommendation Kirstin! I will definitely check out Code Name Verity. I'd also like to hear about any other favorites you read!
Jamila wrote: "Kate wrote: "What I don't always understand is the enthusiasm and devotion that so many adults have for YA fiction. Why has it become the preferred genre for so many adults? What do you get from it..."I read teen fiction because some of the adult books simply aren't that great. It's like I pick up a book and I've read it three times before. The last "adult" book I read that I adored was "Breed" by Chase Novak.
This caught my eye on another thread and thought I'd repost it here. I've not read her books (they are on the TBR mound) but now I'm even more interested to start them.http://veronicarothbooks.blogspot.com...
Shame: The Ultimate Time Vampire
Posted by Veronica Roth at 4:49 PM
I'm going to graduate soon, and I have a few things I want to say about reading + writing + school before I do.
First of all, I'd like to say that I understand what a blessing it is to be able to go to the kind of school I went to. I have gotten a lot out of it. The writing program was a great experience and I met a lot of incredible people, including some brilliant professors. I do not regret going here for a second.
This post is about the things I would rather not have learned, so it's going to seem very negative, but that isn't my intention. I'm just isolating one small aspect of my college experience that is certainly not unique to this school, because I think it's important that I talk about it.
(In this post I also talk about YA and commercial fiction like they're the same thing. I am aware that they aren't. I mean, obviously there's commercial fiction that isn't YA, and there is definitely YA that isn't commercial. But because the YA fiction I write just happens to be commercial, and because it's both the YA-ness and the commercial-ness that I've encountered difficulties with, I'll talk about them like they're the same.)
Okay, enough with the disclaimers.
The last time (excluding the past three months) that I remember loving to read was eighth grade. That's right: eight years ago. What happened, you ask? People told me I was too smart to read what I liked to read. They said I should be reading "college-level books." I started to feel ashamed of what I wanted to read, and I tried to read what I was "supposed" to be reading. But the problem was that I didn't enjoy those books, and I couldn't force myself to enjoy them, and I hated feeling like I was stupid for not liking them, so I stopped reading altogether.
When I got to college, I felt like I had to develop another identity, known as "Classroom Veronica." Classroom Veronica wasn't pretentious or obnoxious or anything, but when asked what her favorite books were, she didn't respond with complete honesty; she listed some adult literary fiction. Classroom Veronica can carry on an intelligent conversation about Anton Chekhov, Flannery O'Connor, Raymond Carver, and Ernest Hemingway, if she has to. If she has to, she can talk about literary fiction until it starts to come out of her ears.
And man, did I have to.
Okay: don't get me wrong. I do like literary fiction. I love Alice Munro and Marilynne Robinson and I even enjoyed Chekhov. Many writers of literary fiction have my admiration and respect. Classroom Veronica isn't a lie, but she is just a fragment of who I really am as a writer and as a reader.
Basically, I felt like the academic world was telling me that reading YA is a waste of time. And in a school environment that emphasizes productivity over happiness, "waste of time" is the most damaging label you can apply to something.
It wasn't just the reading. Earlier this year, I wrote that one of my professors insinuated in casual conversation that writing fantasy would be like a fun, easy vacation compared to "real writing." That opinion is a popular one in academic circles, at least in public, such that people will voice it as if it is common knowledge. It has become ingrained.
This is why I didn't tell many people at school that I was writing young adult fiction until this winter. One response I got when I did was "Oh, just trying to pay the bills?" As if commercial fiction and/or YA are just something "real" writers do to make money only so that they can afford to write adult literary fiction.
Let's not even talk about how silly and inaccurate that is from a practical standpoint. (I can hear all my YA-commercial writer friends saying "where exactly is this giant pool of cash that I get to fall into because I'm writing commercial YA?" There's a reason why I said my book deal was a blessing, not a wage.)
It's not just inaccurate; it's the exact opposite of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing adult literary fiction, but for me, it felt forced and inauthentic. I was looking forward to the day when I didn't have to force it anymore.
Somewhere along the line, I started to feel ashamed, not just of my reading tastes, but of my writing.
Once the book deal was announced, though, no one cared what genre I was writing in. Actually, it felt like they chose to ignore it, even though the announcement said "young adult dystopian thriller." People at school keep asking me if DIVERGENT is something I wrote for school-- which is a perfectly legitimate question, but I always want to burst out laughing in response. No way would they have let me write DIVERGENT for school.
I crammed DIVERGENT into the spaces between my classes. I woke up early to work on it, and I stayed up late. I worked on it rather than doing homework or studying for tests. I wrote DIVERGENT concurrently with my senior thesis. And I wrote it isolated from my academic community.
What I recently realized, though, is that the real problem was not really with my school; it was with me.
I keep thinking about that quote by Eleanor Roosevelt-- No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Certainly it would have been nice to feel the support of academia behind my writing. But ultimately, the responsibility is mine. I should have been convinced of the value of my work. I should have refused to allow anyone to put me down. I should have stood up for myself, my writing, and my genre. If I had, I'm sure I would have realized that fewer people would have judged me than I anticipated.
That's why I realized it was important to write this post. I know that some of you find yourselves in circles that look down on writing for young adults, or at least seem to be puzzled by it, or are for some reason convinced that it's easier or less important than writing for "grown ups." And some of you are much less confused than I was, and certainly bolder and more confident. But in case you aren't, some things you should know.
1. Your writing has worth. Particularly to your readers, who can pick up your book and escape difficult or stressful situations, or see through someone else's eyes, or think about something they have never considered before. Commercial YA can be both entertaining and challenging to your readers.
2. Writing commercial YA isn't easy. It carries a unique set of challenges, and addressing those challenges requires skill. Commercial YA, or any kind of commercial fiction, isn't something you have to graduate from in order to be a serious writer. It isn't training wheels. Seriously.
3. Don't let people make you ashamed of your writing. There is nothing to be ashamed of. One of the things I feel worst about was that I allowed myself to look down on the genre I love for so long. For the past few months I've been rediscovering how brilliant some YA books are, and I wish I had given myself a swift kick to the pants sooner.
Basically, I've realized that reading and writing YA wasn't a waste of my time, like some people suggested, and it wouldn't have been even if I hadn't gotten the book deal. Hiding it, though? That was a waste of time. I won't make that mistake again.
Mod
I actually think fantasy must be one of the hardest genres to write in because of all the world building that has to take place that must be both creative and internally consistent.
Curse of the Wendigo by Rick YanceyThis entire series is AMAZING. Gross,mysterious, compelling character development throughout the series, great back story, and super creepy and original. Great for male YA or adult readers.... really great for any readers into Frankenstein-type books, think Neil Gaiman but creepier....I would follow this up with This Dark Endeavor by Kenneth Oppel
Lesley wrote: "Curse of the Wendigo by Rick YanceyThis entire series is AMAZING. Gross,mysterious, compelling character development throughout the series, great back story, and super creepy and original. Great f..."
Will Henry!!!! I loved the first two books and I'm looking forward to reading the third. They are very dark and descriptive when it comes to how the monsters do what they do. My only turn off is how long each book was.
I recently read Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstoreand loved it. For teens that enjoyed Ready Player Oneespecially.The book is an adventure/ mystery that touches on many topics. Google, typography, literature, e-books vs. print, programming, coding, super computers and more!Also, the literary style isn't too intense. A nice easy read, but still interesting with some depth and a not-so-subtle commentary on the changing landscape of physical print.
Mod
Jepp, Who Defied the Stars
It follows a 14-year old dwarf as he is taken from his village in the Hapsburg empire to work for the Royal Infanta (that Spanish princess who really liked dwarves) from all the Velazquez paintings.Then, after love triangles involving giants, dwarves and a court jester ensue, he is transferred to the court of Tycho Brahe, who just happens to be one of my favorite historical figures (look him up. He's amazing).
What is really special about this book is that it follows the lives of some very eccentric characters, but completely humanizes them. For instance, a romance between a giant and a dwarf might seem funny on its surface, but this book makes it NOT FUNNY at all and very lovely. I do feel like it is a bit long and slow for a teen book, though.
Lesley and Mike,
Is Curse of the Wendigo actually scary? I've read some YA books that were supposed to be scary and have been pretty disappointed -- mostly they were just gross. I'm thinking of Rotters and books by Yovanoff, Brenna. If it is truly scary, I'm in!
Elsbeth,
I bet Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore is going to be up for an Alex Award! I've had the ebook on hold forever...
Hi all!I just wanted to mention a resource here. The group book blog Stacked (www.stackedbooks.org), which is a great resource in general, has a feature called, "So You Want to Read YA?" in which authors, librarians, and other folks recommend YA books with appeal for adults.
Maria wrote: "I just finished a wonderful YA book that definitely has adult appeal (at least to this adult). Jepp, Who Defied the Stars
It follows a 14-year old dwarf as he is taken from his village in the Hap..."
Maria,
They are all actually scary. There are huge monsters chasing after them wanting to eat them and do bodily harm. One victim even got sucked through an empty grave into the ground. In the Wendigo book, the characters were constantly running through the frozen forest in escape of a mysterious carnal yellow eye!
DC Public Library
Books mentioned in this topic
Jepp, Who Defied the Stars (other topics)Rotters (other topics)
Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore (other topics)
Ready Player One (other topics)
Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Yovanoff, Brenna (other topics)John Green (other topics)
Francisco X. Stork (other topics)
Francesca Lia Block (other topics)
David Levithan (other topics)
Each month we'll announce the theme and you choose the book you want to read.
Starting in 2005 with Twilight, books marketed to teenagers have become a staple of many adults' reading. And teens have always been reading books marketed towards adults, as the Alex Awards, given to adult books with a special appeal for teens, show. This month we'll be reading books that have successfully crossed genre lines, and we'll discuss what makes them so universally appealing.
Check out our YA/Crossover shelf for ideas, or choose one of these:
The one that started the madness
-Twilight by Stephanie Meyer
2012 Alex Award Winners
-The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
-Ready Player One by Ernest Cline
-Salvage the Bones by Jesmyn Ward
-The New Kids: Big Dreams and Brave Journeys at a High School for Immigrant Teens by Brooke Hauser
Dystopias
-Unwind by Neal Shusterman
-The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins
-Pure by Julianna Baggott
-Wool Omnibus by Hugh Howey
Real Life Problems
-The Fault in Our Stars by John Green
-The Book Thief by Marcus Zusak
-The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie
-If I Stay by Gayle Forman
Please post a comment letting us all know what you plan to read and suggesting any good books you know about that have crossover appeal!