Classics for Beginners discussion

I'm wondering if everyone puts a lot of research into picking the right translation when it comes to literature not originally in English. Feel free to share your experiences.

I didn't used to bother particularly unless I really felt that a given translation wasn't working for me, but a couple of weeks ago I saw a different edition of a novel I'd already read and liked, and surprisingly found it a much smoother and still more engaging read with a different translation. Since then I've been paying much more attention.

I don't put 'a lot' of research in. I do take care however to make sure I get a translation that leaves nothing out. I want to read the unabridged versions of books.

Oh, definitely. But even between unabridged translations, I've found that some simply have a better tone and flow compared to others. It's difficult also to tell whether this is because they capture the voice of the author better or because they take too many liberties with the translation (eg- the profusion of familiar English idioms) unless you can also read the work in the original language, which rather defeats the point of having a translation.

Once I discovered how vastly different translations can be, I did start researching and agonizing a bit over which to try. If it is a well-known piece of literature, I want the best chance of enjoying it/understanding it/comprehending why it is so revered. If I can't read something in its original language than I want to know I am getting as close to the original experience as I can. Also, if it is a lengthy book (such as Les Miserables), that is a big investment of time and I'd like to get the best reading experience I can.

Ultimately it's all so subjective I guess. I try to find reviews of different translations if there are any...and try to get things unabridged. :)

Yasiru wrote: "Oh, definitely. But even between unabridged translations, I've found that some simply have a better tone and flow compared to others. It's difficult also to tell whether this is because they captur..."

Yes true. I've found most translations I've gone for have on the whole been fairly excellent. I tend to go for the oxford classics or penguin classics (the one problem with the later is they can be more abridged) on the whole but with Les Miserables I'm reading the everyman's library edition which was recommended to me.

Les Misérables is a particularly nagging one for me. I have this suspicion that I read an abridged version, but it was almost a thousand pages long all the same. Unfortunately I can't remember the edition, but I saw it at a sale recently and bought a two volume set of the Wilbour translation (unabridged).

I've found the Oxford World's Classics translations consistently well regarded, but once in a while Penguin or Vintage or some other publisher has a slight edge so prior research is the only sure way.

With Russian literature especially, there appears to be a literary war going on with the way vastly different opinions over new translations are being argued. See the links at my note on War and Peace for a rundown.

A new translation of Les Miserables by Julie Rose was published recently that is supposed to be unabridged. I've bought a copy but have not started reading yet. According to wikipedia, this would be only the second completely new translation of the novel in the last 100 years, so I thought it might be easier to read. I read a small interview with her, and her enthusiasm sort of sold me on it.

Speaking of new translations, I bought the Penguin edition of Don Quixote which features a recent (and apparently well-regarded) translation by John Rutherford.

There's the worry with a modern translator that they might take too many liberties by smoothing and simplifying the idiom for the audience and take away some of the atmosphere and charm of the time, but if they're passionate about the story I think that's a consolation.

Yasiru wrote: "Les Misérables is a particularly nagging one for me. I have this suspicion that I read an abridged version, but it was almost a thousand pages long all the same. Unfortunately I can't remember the ..."

I just finished the Wilbur translation. I found it excellent on the whole, really capturing the spirit of the text. There was some French that was left as it was without notes but if I really had wanted I'd have looked it up. I liked not knowing the poems and just reading the French.

An interesting case is the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. I'm juggling five translations at the moment (Waley, Legge, Feng and English, Red Pine, Hamill) and I'm very glad for the variety. Some are better than others for certain chapters, but there were a few instances when a new layer of meaning came through in one or more, as though each were offering a glimpse of a single facet of a gem.

I find the whole topic depressing.
I did not use to pay attention to translations either. Where it really hit me was when my girlfriend tried reading Eco. She does not speak Italian and she read Baudolino in English. And she hated it. I could not understand why. Until I picked up the English translation (unfortunately, I don't recall the translator off the top of my head) and saw how 'heavy' the text had become. Granted, I still liked it - but it certainly was not as lighthearted as the original and a lot of the humor was lost.

That really made me wonder: how much is there that I am missing? My favorite authors are Russian, but I have not read a word they have actually written...

As I said, I find the topic depressing...

Yes I do a bit research first before picking up a translation, usually by comparing people's reviews from Amazon or comparing the different translations by myself when I'm in a bookstore. I think that choosing the "right" translation is a crucial thing to do since an improper one can slightly (or profoundly) decrease the literary quality of the original book. And you first impression towards the book can be different also. Well, that's my opinion.

Because I'm likely to choose a book from the library, I rarely have a choice, so I've never paid much attention to *which* translation. I appreciate reading about them, though, so that if I *do* have a choice, I can make an appropriate one.

I think the translation that made the biggest difference to me was in Homer's epics, "Iliad" and "Odyssey". I read them several times with different translators, and it can make a big difference in how much you enjoy the lyrics. Also, the footnotes provided make a big difference. When I took the time to read the footnotes, they filled me in on geographical locations, actual historical events or names that coincide with the story, etc.

Another book where the translator and available footnotes seemed important was Dante's "Divine Comedy". I think Mark Musa was my favorite on this epic.

Good that I bought Musa's translations of Dante then. They read nicely and seemed to have plenty of detail in the notes.

I read Umberto Eco in English (as I don't speak Italian) and find him absolutely delightful. I read the Maude translation of War and Peace. I'm reading the Ormsby translation of Don Quixote and am currently trying to decide which translation of Les Miserables to read.

The translations of The Iliad, The Odyssey, and The Aeneid I've read were by Robert Fagles; the John Ciardi translation of The Divine Comedy; and the Stephen mitchell translation of The Epic of Gilgamesh.

Veljko is right. Thinking about translations IS depressing...

I try to read an early section or chapter and compare. The judgement that way may not hold throughout, but it's a good way to ensure a translation reads right to you. Informed and well-supported opinions on reviews and articles are of course indispensable, and I try to use an aggregate of these to narrow down to a short list before I compare myself.

Sometimes you might even find extensive online tools like this one for Homer's Odyssey-

http://knightowls.org/odyssey/

Yasiru wrote:"Sometimes you might even find extensive online tools like this one for Homer's Odyssey-"

Thank you for posting, it was interesting. I started reading the Iliad using a free version available on Kindle (Pope), it is written as a poem and I found it very difficult to follow. After 100 pages I found myself in a Barnes & Noble and found a hard copy version The Iliad and the Odyssey, it was so much more readable in its prose style.

I feel a bit like I am reading remedial Homer, but I guess I really much prefer understanding the work!

Okay. I never paid attention to translation before. I figured they were all pretty similar and what I didn't know couldn't hurt me. Well, I've been buying the Barnes & Noble Classic Series for my library. But I found out that many of them are abridged. Which, though I don't like it, I can deal with if I have to. For my favorites though I want the full uncut experience. I've already bought the Penguin edition of Count of Monte Cristo, which I read was the best. And I also got the Signet Les Misérables, which was the one I read years ago. And now I just found out that my version of Hunchback of Notre-Dame was missing an important plot point.... So, now I've got to find out which version to buy of that.

My question is, which publisher is best for unabridged books? Apparently B&N is one of the worst.

Veljko wrote: "I find the whole topic depressing.
I did not use to pay attention to translations either. Where it really hit me was when my girlfriend tried reading Eco. She does not speak Italian and she read B..."

I find that humor is something that translates differently from culture to culture. Even those that share the same basic language.

Traci wrote: "Okay. I never paid attention to translation before. I figured they were all pretty similar and what I didn't know couldn't hurt me. Well, I've been buying the Barnes & Noble Classic Series for my l..."

I pretty much only buy Penguin.

I tried researching it and it seems like the Hunchback thing might have been a mistake by a reader who either had a bad copy, or didn't understand what they read. So that's good. But then I found that some copies of Phantom of the Opera only refers to him as the Opera Ghost... one guess which one I have. Luckily most of the classics I have from B & N are English ones. And they haven't seemed edited from what I could tell, Lady Chatterley's Lover was full and uncut anyway. I ended up ordering Hunchback & Phantom from Bantam. The translations are supposed to be good... we'll see. It's definitely something I never gave attention to, but I'm going to start.

Last year, I couldn't decide which translation of The Tale of Genji to read, so I bought the four complete English translations (plus a leather bound Xmas present for myself) and ended up reading two of them.



The differences turned out to be :

the Waley translation is more a retelling inspired by the original Japanese manuscript; The Siedensticker translation is a direct translation, but lacks the lyrical beauty of the original; the Tyler translation was written for students and scholars; and the Washburn translation is a modern translation. I read the Waley and Tyler translations.

Squire wrote: "Last year, I couldn't decide which translation of The Tale of Genji to read, so I bought the four complete English translations (plus a leather bound Xmas present for myself) and ended up reading t..."

Which did you like best?

I started on 103 Great Poems: A Dual-Language Book a couple of days ago and I've found myself nitpicking some of the translator's choices even with my very rudimentary German. It might have to do more with this being poetry rather than prose though.

I liked the Tyler translation better. It was heavily foot noted and provided for a more cultural experience than the Waley translation (Waley never visited Japan); But that lack of cultural expience gave the Waley translation an exoticness that was missing in the Tyler translation.

No translation is going to be perfect.

Thanks! This is always a horrible dilemma for me when it comes to translated classics.

Sometimes with translations, I simply look at the format. For instance, my choice for The Illiad/Odyssey was based on the fact that I wanted to read a verse translation, not a prose. Same for The Divine Comedy. Which translation I would read then became whichever one I could get my hands on.

Any thoughts on the Xist Classics on kindle? I've found classics on kindle that have the tan/color (usually red or green) coloring tend to be rather dry. So I started gathering the ones not in the tan/color combo and Xist seems to be putting out freebies a fair bit. I've got a sneaking suspicion that Xist aren't the best version though.

Myst wrote: "Any thoughts on the Xist Classics on kindle? I've found classics on kindle that have the tan/color (usually red or green) coloring tend to be rather dry. So I started gathering the ones not in the ..."

It's likely that if they're free or very cheap that the translation is old and out of copyright. This isn't always a bad thing, like Squire said with Waley's Tale of Genji (another example off the top of my head would be Constance Garnett's translations of Chekhov's short stories- most of her Russian translations are mediocre, especially Dostoyevsky, but I like hers better than most modern translations for Chekhov).

I've seldom gone wrong with Penguin Classics and Oxford World's Classics, but there are bound to be exceptions to the rule, so I always research translations a bit before committing.

Does anyone know of any suitable translations of The Hunchback of Notre Dame?

I've desperately wanted to read that book for quite a while and I thought the best time would be now, especially since I noticed that's what you're about to read this upcoming month, but I hear some of them are abridged in some ways. (I think the abridged versions cut out some of the descriptions and history of Paris or something like that) Regardless I just want it to be readable, since I've sometimes had trouble seeking out the best translations in the past, which is part of the reason I don't read many translated classics.

I would greatly appreciate it if any of you could help me. Thanks!

Usually Penguin is a good translation: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3... might be a good option.

Does anyone know of a good translation for The Divine Comedy? I read the Inferno a long time ago and it was drudgery.

I find it a challenge to follow what I am reading when it comes to epic poetry. I am hoping I could find a good version in prose style (I had good luck reading a prose version of the Iliad)...

I'm reading Xist classics version and I can't prove it, but I don't think it's a complete version. It's said to be 600 pages long, and in about an hour of having the kindle narrate to me while driving in the car, I'm almost 20% through.

Has anyone read Le Morte D'Arthur before and is it an actually 'short' 'quick' read, or did I pick up a bad edition?

Myst wrote: "I'm reading Xist classics version and I can't prove it, but I don't think it's a complete version. It's said to be 600 pages long, and in about an hour of hav..."

From most of the other editions I've seen it's quite a large book.

Rory wrote: "Myst wrote: "I'm reading Xist classics version and I can't prove it, but I don't think it's a complete version. It's said to be 600 pages long, and in about a..."

I found a copy in the library yesterday and was comparing my kindle to the physical copy. The Xist version appears to be part 1 and from what I skimmed it seems to be complete text, so not abridged, but not stated as only being part 1 either.

Myst wrote: "Rory wrote: "Myst wrote: "I'm reading Xist classics version and I can't prove it, but I don't think it's a complete version. It's said to be 600 pages long, a..."

I don't know much about that. I remember seeing the Oxford World Classics version in my library once and I recall it being just over 800 pages. I can't determine if that was an abridged version.