You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Let me tell you a story...

Jakob Grimm, half of the Brothers Grimm, was born on the 4 January 1785. Wilhelm, the younger brother, was born on the 24 February 1786. The Brothers collected and published around 211 fairy tales, folk stories and legends between 1812 and 1857.

In order to celebrate their birthdays and to acknowledge their work, January’s challenge is to read a retelling of a fairy tale, folk story, myth or legend.

Clarifications (with examples in the spoilers):
· This is not a book that *just* has mythological or supernatural elements in it, it has to be a retelling of another story. (view spoiler)[ For example, The Penelopiad as a retelling of the Odyssey, or The Mists of Avalon as a retelling of the Arthurian legend. (hide spoiler)]

· It also has to be the whole book, not just one short story within a collection. (view spoiler)[ For example, Neil Gaiman has a brilliant retelling of Snow White in Smoke and Mirrors, but as it is about 10pp in 365pp, this does not count. However The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories does count as the whole book is a collection of retellings of a whole heap of Brothers Grimm stories. (hide spoiler)]

· No primary sources sorry. As important and fun as it is to read the originals of these stories (and we all should), this is a retelling challenge. (view spoiler)[ Not Beowulf: A New Verse Translation itself, but reading something like Grendel or Eaters of the Dead. Or not The Aeneid but say Dido instead (hide spoiler)]

· And finally, I'm looking at stories with an oral tradition that have been told over time. So if the story was first told in the printed version, I'm afraid it's not counting this time. (view spoiler)[ Examples again Alice in Wonderland, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Peter Pan, or Frankenstein don't count. However, Dracula would count as is it a retelling/reimagining of Vlad the Impaler legends. (hide spoiler)]

Points can be then earnt by the following

Theme
5 - Physical Transformation
4 - Quest
3 - Consequences of not obeying ones parents (urgh)
2 - Happily ever after…
1 - Love

Origin of the *original* story
10 – Brothers Grimm story
8 – Asian, African, Pacific, South, Central or Native American, Intuit, Middle Eastern or Australian
6 – Other European (eg Slavic, Scandinavian, Baltic)
4 – Classical Greek, Roman or Egyptian
2 – English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian or American (by American I mean non-Native eg The Legend of Sleepy Hollow)

Title
5 - Is the name of the main character (eg. Hood)
4 - Has a colon and subtitle (eg. Weight: The Myth of Atlas and Heracles)
3 - Has “fable”, “fairy tale”, “story” or “legend” in the title
2 - Has a magical word in the title eg magic, spell, enchanted, bewitched
1 - Is three words (including The, etc)

Cover (the version *you* read. If audio book, go by Goodreads' most popular cover)
5 - Has an ominous looking male
4 - Has a long, flowing haired female
3 - Has a rose
2 - Has a weapon
1 - Has a horse

Confused? Want ideas?
This Challenge has a little bit of homework attached to it for your holidays. Besides the examples given above here, or just Wiki-ing individual fairy tales (really useful by the way) here are a couple of links to help:
http://www.goodreads.com/series/59318... This is a series that over the last few years have had well known authors retelling myths and legends
http://www.rantingdragon.com/top-20-r...
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/96... ; http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/19... ; http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/17... are also good lists, but be careful as they have a few original fairy tale-esq stories (eg The Princess Bride, Stardust, Howl's Moving Castle) in there too which won't count.

Otherwise... hit the thread below with questions or if you have suggestions!

Now, I realise this is up nice and early. Three reasons for this:
1. People are getting pretty damn busy with family commitments, cooking and travel;
2. Libraries tend to close this time of year so I want you to be able to use them if you so desire; and
3. I forsee people having lots of questions as they research and so I want you to be able to ask these questions before Jan, but I acknowledge the above limitations.

But remember you still have 12 days on the Nov/Dec challenge!! (more badges peoples)

Enjoy :D

Hmmm, print out challenge, set up spreadsheet, start trolling through tbr and bookshelves...

Sounds like a great challenge Rusalka!

The problem is with researching this challenge, my TBR has grown significantly. I had 3 options before. Now...

Time to start gophering! You may have made this challenge easy for me since I have The Red Tent in print format. But, I shall think on it.

oh oh oh I may have an idea. Can I read The Death of King Arthur: A New Verse Translation? It's a modern translation of a poem written in ~ 1400 during (according to the blurb) a medieval Arthurian revival. The first written source for Arthur is 9th Century, possibly earlier, so it is certainly a retelling.
Annoyingly short for an A author, I couldn't resist it when I saw it in the bookshop recently.

I'm going for 25 Cinder by Marissa Meyer.

"Cinderella", or "The Little Glass Slipper"

After doing my research Helen, I'm going to say yes. It's not the first written account of Arthur, as as you say they had been around for at least 500 if not 700 years previously.

Good loophole finding ;)

Almeta wrote: "I'm going for Cinder by Marissa Meyer.""

I'm glad someone is reading this one Almeta. This one leapt on to my TBR when I was looking around for this challenge. Look forward to your thoughts, so I can determine if it should stay there or not.

Rusalka wrote: "After doing my research Helen, I'm going to say yes. It's not the first written account of Arthur, as as you say they had been around for at least 500 if not 700 years previously.

Good loophole finding ;)"

Whoop whoop whoopity whoop! >:-D

I'm looking at The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins, which retells the story of Theseus, and The Princess Bride by William Goldman, a Cinderella off-shoot.

Do these pass the Rusalka test?

Unfortunately The Princess Bride no. The book plays on the idea that it is retelling an existing story, but it's not. Sorry. I mentioned it above as I thought it would be one that caused us confusion.

Hunger Games, I'll look into it. From my little knowledge I'm erring to say no, but I will look into it more straight away.

Okay the phrase "Author Suzanne Collins was inspired by Theseus to write The Hunger Games trilogy, which was published from 2008–2010." has come up.

Inspiration, while cool and makes me more inclined to read The Hunger Games, not this challenge I'm afraid.

Sorry Thing Two. I'm aiming to take Janice's title of Meanie away from her it seems.

Are you sure about TPB? I studied the movie years ago in a cinema class, and as I recall, it does retell Cinderella; it explores the idea of what would happen if Cinderella didn't like her Prince "Charming". It's a parody on the classic tale.

And I got THG from wikipedia. I've never read it, but figured it would work.

Oh the other reason I "released" it early was so people could add last minute things to their Chrissy lists.

I just had a giggle as I realised all our lists will say:
- Book that is a retelling of a myth or fairytale.
- Books with the title or the author's surname starting with Q, X or Z.

How about The Outlaws of Sherwood

I've read TPB and watched it over and over (love the movie, dislike the book). I would say it definitely has fairytale elements to the story. It depends on who the "Prince Charming" character is. Is it Farm Boy? Or is it Humperdink? However either don't have the main parts of Cinderella in that love part of the story.

Very happy for these to be from different angles, told by different characters, names changed, genders changed, locations changed, even endings or plot tweaked. But has to be noticeably that story. If you can show me something that says I have completely missed the point of TPB, please do though!! This is very much a possibility.

Again, Hunger Games while I am sure has elements of the trials of Theseus, I don't believe is actually a retelling of the myth of Theseus. I think it helped her form her idea though. Again, very happy to be proven wrong.

Travis of NNY wrote: "How about The Outlaws of Sherwood"

Sounds great. Robin McKinley seems to have made an entire career of retelling fairytales and legends. I hoped someone would read her so I could find out if she was any good ;)

Rusalka wrote: "I've read TPB and watched it over and over (love the movie, dislike the book). I would say it definitely has fairytale elements to the story. It depends on who the "Prince Charming" character is. I..."

I'm not interested in paying the $42.00 just to prove a point, but I came across this link. :)

http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/humr....

And this one.

http://twicetoldarchive.wordpress.com...

That's about the best I can do, Meanie 2.

And here's an interesting Hunger Games study. http://www.gradesaver.com/the-hunger-...

I haven't read either book, yet, but since both of the authors have last names which fall early in the alphabet, there's a good chance I'll actually pick these up in January - hence my nagging. :)

I seem to have sneaked in with my request and caught Meanie 2 in a moment of weakness. >;-)
But it's in writing, so I'm fine and dandy. teeheehee.

Do Bible stories count?

Interesting discussion to wake up to! I think there will be some ambiguity in determining whether or not a book fits the criteria. The question is, "Did the author intend the book to be a re-telling?" Another question, "When does a book become a re-telling? If a book is based on a fairy tale, does that constitute a re-telling?"

Suzanne Collins, in an interview that I found online said that THG was based on Theseus. In other interiews, she talked about other stories that influenced her, such as The Lottery and The Running Man (or maybe it was Stephen King who made the connectiong to The Running Man in his review of THG).

As for William Goldman's intention in writing TPB, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prin... under "Context" tells what influenced his writing of the story. It doesn't sound like he intended to rewrite Cinderella.

Just putting my 2 cents in..

Meany 1.

Snoozie Suzie wrote: "Do Bible stories count?"

May I add a qualifier to that question? Do Bible stories count if they are parables (ie The Prodigal Son)?

Ah, Janice! Good one. I wasn't wondering about those, but like it. I was wondering about a retelling of Cain & Able, or Noah's Ark?

I was thinking of Fairy Tales from the Brothers Grimm: A New English Version but I'm not sure if it passes the 'I'm looking at stories with an oral tradition that have been told over time. So if the story was first told in the printed version, I'm afraid it's not counting this time.' Does it?

Snoozie Suzie wrote: "Ah, Janice! Good one. I wasn't wondering about those, but like it. I was wondering about a retelling of Cain & Able, or Noah's Ark?"

Those two stories from the Bible aren't considered parables. Many people considered them to be history, so I'm thinking they wouldn't fit the criteria. But, Rusalka will have to make the final determination on our questions.

Janice, I know they're not parables, but are they history, folklore (of a type) started by word of mouth then written: who can say for sure?

Not prepared to pay $42 for a journal article to prove your point Thing Two? Commitment! lol.

Re: the Princess Bride. From those articles it still seems the main argument is turning the nature of fairy tales on it's head. Which I entirely agree with. And is why we all love it so. But I think it is a stretch to say it's a Cinderella story. I wonder if the authors are using Cinderella (as one of the most popular fairy tales) to mean fairy tales itself. But I am going to stick with my original ruling I am afraid as that was one of the first books I wrote in the Challenge itself that was a modern fairy tale-esq story that does not count this time.

Re: Hunger Games. The more I have read about it, the more it doesn't seem to fit I'm afraid. I thought you meant it was based on his trials to get into the Underworld. Not the Minotaur.

Sorry :( I do honestly feel mean saying no if it makes you feel better. Read them anyway and tell me how much I am wrong and how wonderful they were! :P

Pragya wrote: "I was thinking of Fairy Tales from the Brothers Grimm: A New English Version but I'm not sure if it passes the 'I'm looking at stories with an oral tradition that have been told over time. So if th..."

Yep. You're good Pragya.

You may have all realised I am using you all to test my TBR. This is another one ;)

Brothers Grimm collected German fairy tales that had been told for centuries and just wrote them down. They wanted a "German" book. And are the inspiration for the challenge itself.

Suzie, I am happy to count biblical stories as a form of Middle Eastern mythology or legend. I'm being academic, not making a religious or philosophical call. I'm treating them as the same as The Epic of Gilgamesh. So let me know what you are thinking about.

Ooo... now that would be interesting if there is a retelling of the Epic...

Parables... that's an interesting question Janice. Let me think on that one.

I guess I would err on a yes they would count, as they are oral stories, and were instructive like a lot of the other types of stories we are considering.

Will this open a huge can of worms? Probably. But I guess they would count as Middle Eastern stories as well.

*starts stomping on all other loopholes*

And in the spirit of disclosure. I'm umming and ahhing between Hood, The Mists of Avalon and The Penelopiad at this point in time.

ok, here is a book based on a book in the Bible. Would it qualify?

Rusalka wrote: "Suzie, I am happy to count biblical stories as a form of Middle Eastern mythology or legend. I'm being academic, not making a religious or philosophical call. I'm treating them as the same as The E..."

I was going to go for Fallen a retelling of Cain & Abel & Adam & Eve.

I'm thinking of The Once and Future King or The Red Tent or maybe Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West.

Jkmays wrote: "ok, here is a book based on a book in the Bible. Would it qualify? "

From the reviews and the internet it looks like it is theology and non-fiction. While looking interesting (I've always found the story of Ruth intriguing), this challenge is more on fictional re-tellings.

Snoozie Suzie wrote: "I was going to go for Fallen a retelling of Cain & Abel & Adam & Eve. "

I would say that qualifies. Tackling a few stories it seems... ambitious.

Oh I feel like such a cow!

"· And finally, I'm looking at stories with an oral tradition that have been told over time. So if the story was first told in the printed version, I'm afraid it's not counting this time. [ Examples again Alice in Wonderland, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Peter Pan, or Frankenstein don't count. "

First two I'm fine with, Wicked (which is also on my bookshelf at home) not this time Roz.

Sorry!

I'm going to go cover myself with puppies or something to prove I'm not a bad person!!

That's okay, Rusalka. Two out of three isn't so bad.

Travis of NNY wrote: "How about The Outlaws of Sherwood"

I might have to copycat you on this one Travis. The Outlaws of Sherwood is on my tbr, and after reading Stephen Lawhead's King Raven trilogy (Hood, Scarlet and Tuck) I've been wanting to read more Robin Hood stories.

Rusalka wrote: "Oh I feel like such a cow!"

ROFL! Glad to hear you've joined the herd. You just have to watch out for stampedes.

Janice wrote: "Rusalka wrote: "Oh I feel like such a cow!"

ROFL! Glad to hear you've joined the herd. You just have to watch out for stampedes."

MOOOO!

We've got a little bovine energy to help things mooove along.

jaxnsmom wrote: "Travis of NNY wrote: "How about The Outlaws of Sherwood"

I might have to copycat you on this one Travis. The Outlaws of Sherwood is on my tbr, and after reading Stephen Lawhead's King Raven trilo..."

Another interesting one I came across while looking at all those lists was Scarlet

Haven't read it or know anyone who has, but it tickled my fancy.

Can I read a book that is part of a series I have already started?

I just finished the book Outlaw by Angus Donald which is about Robin Hood.

For this challenge could I read the 2nd book from the series Holy Warrior

Well that occupied me for a while.

Still about Robin Hood. Telling the story of his travels with Richard in the Holy Lands. I was wondering if the Crusader element was modern though, thus making the story of him going Crusading non-applicable.

However, I have found sources that suggest that the idea of Robin being a Crusader was bandied around for a while and and then written down in the 19th Century.

Approved ;)

Ok thank you, much appericated

Rusalka wrote: "Another interesting one I came across while looking at all those lists was Scarlet

Haven't read it or know anyone who has, but it tickled my fancy."

I'ts always been checked out, but I just looked and it's available at one of my libraries. Thanks for reminding me Rusalka!