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The Most "Miserable" Character

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Emma Oliveros The most miserable or tragic character in Les Miserables for me is Eponine. As soon as I read about her, my heart really felt sad about her. Like she was an innocent, poor one. I honestly forgot she was once evil to Cosette. Eponine was really a great turn-around by Mr. Hugo. I love her!

How about you? Who do you think is the most miserable character in Les Miserables?


Lauren Wiseman I would have to go with Fantine, but you pose a good case for Eponine. Reason I chose Fantine being she gave up everything for her daughter. But, as those who have read the book have seen, it didn't work out as well as she may have hoped.


Carina I think from what I know of the adaptations Eponine is the most miserable, however if I were to go just with the book it would probably be Fantine or, tbh, Jean Val Jean.

Fantine ends up having such a miserable existence though she started life as rather a 'gentle' soul and she really went through a lot. The same can be said for Val Jean, jailed for a stupidly long time for a minor crime, hounded for years... apart from the time he was the mayor/town leader he was never really able to just rest and not have to look over his shoulder for Javert, and then when he was dying he was miserable because he was trying to do right by Cosette but it hurt him so much.


Sheri Schuttler When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that Eponine lost the right to sympathy when she sent Marius to the barricade without delivering Cosette's letter. (I disagreed)


John Niemeyer I have to go with Fantine. Her final years of life were nothing but misery compounded with failure and every hope dashed and every humiliation heaped upon her. While Eponine is truly tragic she doesn't have the same claim to our sympathies. She suffers for a love she did not earn, she does not have the precipitous fall from station and she still has the freedom to choose her way out of her dilemmas that an unwed mother would not have.

I think Sheri's students got it right. Eponine loses some of my sympathy when she fails to pass the letter until the very end. Fantine is presented as a more altruistic character and thus her unrealized hopes are all the more poignant.


Emma Oliveros Fantine did cross my mind, but I think she and Eponine had their own complicated problems. Fantine was really the kind, caring one while Eponine started as the evil one. And Eponine's also human. She makes mistakes too and selfish at some points, but who isn't? If she would be good to Marius to the end it would not suspend disbelief, for me. Fantine was tragic with her having to leave Cosette and all and I think the most tragedy that could happen would be people thinking you have no right for a second chance. There Fantine and Eponine would be equal.


message 7: by Mike (last edited Jan 13, 2013 11:52PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that Eponine lost th..."

You taught LM to 9th-graders??? I would assume it was the abridged version at least? I actually read it on my own for the first time in 9th grade (an abridged Wilbour version), but it was not easy, and in general it's not a book that I would imagine most students in high school would be mature enough to handle. But maybe I'm wrong. :)

As for Eponine, it's not just that she didn't deliver his letter right away--it's the fact that she sent Marius into the barricades so that they could both die together! Not exactly Mother Theresa, if you ask me. ;)

I can't remember--did Eponine ever realize that the beautiful Cosette was formerly The Lark? I could go back and look it up (was she in the room when Monsieur and Madame Scuzzball brought it up?), but I don't recall hearing Eponine ever mention that point.

Overall, I'd probably go with Fantine, for reasons that others have mentioned.


Lauren Mike wrote: "Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that E..."

Mike, in response to "it's not a book that I would imagine most students in high school would be mature enough to handle", I read it unabridged in French in the summer between my junior and senior year and wrote a thesis, also in French, about the female characters. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I did it. Some of my peers have read it in English.

I do not think Eponine ever realized that the Alouette was Marius' girlfriend. When Marius asks her about Monsieur Leblanc, she only refers to Cosette as, "La belle demoiselle."

Sheri, do you teach at an advanced school?


message 9: by Mike (last edited Jan 14, 2013 10:20PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Mike, in response to "it's not a book that I would imagine most students in high school would be mature enough to handle", I read it unabridged in French in the summer between my junior and senior year and wrote a thesis, also in French, about the female characters. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I did it. Some of my peers have read it in English.

Thanks for the info, Lauren. But that doesn't really dispute my point. I said "most students in high school," not all students. Certainly those who truly excel in English could tackle it, but those students would definitely be in the minority IMO. In fact, I didn't know anyone else in my high school who had read the book period. But that was long before it was ever a musical, so maybe just not enough people at my school had ever heard of it.

Actually, I find it quite amazing that you read the whole thing in French while still a high school student. When did you start taking French? In elementary school, perhaps?

Even though I read LM in 9th grade, I don't think I truly grasped its themes. In fact, I read it again (the unabridged Fahnestock version) in my early 20s, but still didn't delve all that deeply into its meanings. Having finally read it for the third time, I feel as if I am now able to "get" a lot of things about the novel that I could never see when I was a lot younger. Anyway, I guess my point is that, if I were an English teacher, I would certainly allow some of my students to read LM, but I wouldn't assign it to a whole class or anything--at least not at your average school.

Perhaps your hunch is correct that Sheri teaches at an advanced school.

I do not think Eponine ever realized that the Alouette was Marius' girlfriend. When Marius asks her about Monsieur Leblanc, she only refers to Cosette as, "La belle demoiselle."

OK, thanks. I guess that's a good thing, or else Eponine might not have been nearly as charitable as she was. ;) But I imagine Cosette eventually came to realize the role that her "evil stepsister" played in her and her hubby's relationship. :)

P.S. You should post your thesis here. ;)


Kylie The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, but close! :) The concept of Javert dedicating his whole life to a purpose he assumed to be right, godly, and admirable only to discover that it was pointless, is devastating. He died the saddest death for me simply because he was the only major character who died truly alone. Also, in seeing the correlation between his epiphany and Jean Valjean's. When Jean Valjean realized his life had been wasted in prison, he strove to improve his situation, but when Javert came to that same realization of his wasted time, he saw no means of escape other than death. I find that to be heart wrenching. Poor Javert!


Lauren Wiseman Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, but close! :) T..."

Wow, you're right. It's not weird at all, I think it's actually a good answer. Not only is it different, but it makes perfect sense.


Maricela Yo creo que el personaje más "miserable" es el de Fantina. Ella sufre demasiado sin haberlo merecido nunca, es muy triste su vida, le sucede todo lo que podría sucederle, recién ve la esperanza al final de sus días gracias a Valjean, pero eso no logra salvarla y muere creyendo que su hija está cerca, cuando ocurre todo lo contrario. Claro que su vida sirve para conmocionar a Jean y así salva a Coseta de la vida a la que está condenada. En cambio Eponina es desgraciada, mucho, y es digna de nuestra pena, a lo que ha ido a parar su vida pero su destino es diferente y muere salvando a su amor platonico que nunca fue suyo, pero su amor es egoísta, se puede ver en el parlamento antes de su muerte, cuando le entrega la nota de Coseta a Mario. También se puede hablar de Jean Valjean pero él logra reponerse por encima de su miseria inicial, o Javert en su idealismo. Es mi humilde opinión, tiene que ver con la esencia del personaje, Eponina es joven y fuerte porque debe criarse sola en la calle y eso la endurece para afrontar las dificultades, Fantina en cambio, tiene que soportar todo lo que le ocurre y lo hace con ahínco por encima de su carácter que si bien no estuvo habituada a tener comodidades, si posee delicadeza y su vida se viene en picada en el momento más feliz. Su historia es muy triste.


Lauren Mike wrote: "Mike, in response to "it's not a book that I would imagine most students in high school would be mature enough to handle", I read it unabridged in French in the summer between my junior and senior ..."

I actually started learning it my freshman year but I picked it up really quickly.


Cassie Mike wrote: "Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that E..."

Mike wrote: "Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that E..."

Mike wrote: "Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number who felt that E..."

I don't know about 9th grade, but I read it for pleasure (unabridged) when I was 17 (11th grade) and loved it!

I agree with all the above about Fantine and Eponine. But let me be the controversial one and say Javert. Fantine's sacrifices were out of compassion and love for her daughter. Eponine's plight, though a bit misguided, was also out of love and compassion for the man she pined for. Javert, despite the villanous devil that he is, does not know how to show or even feel compassion,love, or mercy, for that matter. In the end, the compassion and mercy that was shown him by a man he deems 'enemy #1' is beyond his ability to comprehend or accept. He is all justice and mercy has no part of his soul. That, to me, is truly miserable. To live without experiencing love, compassion, mercy etc is a truly miserable life.


message 15: by Cassie (last edited Jan 15, 2013 07:31AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cassie Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, but close! :) T..."

I agree! (my comment is above)


message 16: by Jeni (new)

Jeni I've never felt sorry for Javert until I saw the newest movie version of LM. I actually wept for him and his conflict.

For me, Fantine was thrust into miserable circumstances, but she wasn't a miserable person. She did it all for the love of her daughter and made her decisions purposely and was glad she could still support the girl she loved so much. Valjean's promise to care for her daughter let her rest in peace.

Eponine was not my favorite character, though I can certainly empathize with her, I never liked her much. Unrequited love can leave one quite devastated and in a constant state of distress, but I would argue it wasn't a miserable existence.

For me, "Les Miserables" refers to the people of France. I've always felt the conditions of the general populace and the stark contrast between eating spoiled food or eating cake is the real source of the title. It's a pathetic, disease-infested, primarily poor country with no sympathy or help from their government. Couple that with great apathy on the part of the people who are willing to suffer and die in these conditions rather than be killed fighting against a system that cares nothing for them, and you have a generally miserable situation for everyone but the bourgeoisie.


Sheri Schuttler Eponine was well aware that Cosette was the person she was protecting from her parents and that Marius loved. She was there when her family was plotting at the apartment with the Patron Minette and would have seen how her father planned to sell JVJ the sign from his old tavern. Later, she made a conscious choice to face down her father and the thugs of the Patron Minette at the house in the Rue de Plumet. Give her credit for some nobility.

I did teach the abridged version to my Advanced classes and filled them in on anything important that was left out (like the fact that her brother Gavroche cared for their other two brothers on the streets and never knew they were related!)


Lauren Sheri wrote: "Eponine was well aware that Cosette was the person she was protecting from her parents and that Marius loved. She was there when her family was plotting at the apartment with the Patron Minette and..."

It's cool that you do that. I think that the ideas in the book are actually perfect for coming-of-age experiences in real life because most of the characters have admirable qualities that, in my case, help me shape my goals of what kind of adult I want to be. It also changed my views of poor people and made me realize the importance of acts of kindness, both large and small. Are you an English or French teacher?


Larry Arnold for me, it all depends on the character. each one is "miserable" in thier own way. look at jafar, at the end he had to struggle with his beliefs in doing whats write. you have jean valjean being the good guy, but yet still hiding who he is.

depending on my mood...


Larry Arnold Cassie wrote: "Mike wrote: "Sheri wrote: "When I taught this, I always had my students (9th graders) write a persuasive argument naming Eponine or Fantine as the most tragic character. Generally I had a number wh..."

this is a good way of putting it


Carlie Vega The most miserable character? Fantine.
I mean, god, she couldn't care for her own child and so was conned by the Thénardier's for money, she sells her hair and her front teeth, becomes a prostitute, and then gets sick and dies before she ever sees Cosette again.
Each of the characters has their own problems but I think to be put in Fantine's situation would be the absolute worst.


message 22: by Mike (last edited Jan 16, 2013 09:53PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Lauren wrote: "I actually started learning it my freshman year but I picked it up really quickly."

Wow, you read LM after only 3 years of high-school French??? That's definitely amazing. I had a couple of years of college French, but I didn't think that would be enough for me to be able to read the French version of LM, mais peut-etre j'avais tort. ;) It's been ages, though, but I imagine I could get the French back fairly quickly if I tried.

Incidentally, the French version has almost 2,000 pages. Why is it so much longer in French, I wonder? When you read it in French, did your version include the chapter on prostitution, which some French editions are supposed to include?


message 23: by Mike (last edited Jan 16, 2013 10:06PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Sheri wrote: "Eponine was well aware that Cosette was the person she was protecting from her parents and that Marius loved. She was there when her family was plotting at the apartment with the Patron Minette and would have seen how her father planned to sell JVJ the sign from his old tavern."

I knew that Azelma was in the room when all that happened, but I didn't recall whether Eponine was as well (and I didn't feel like going back to look it up ;). Oh, so she saw it all, huh? Then that does add some nobility to her actions.

I did teach the abridged version to my Advanced classes and filled them in on anything important that was left out.

OK, I can at least see 9th-graders reading the abridged version, but I can't imagine the unabridged holding their interest for very long, especially the chapter on Waterloo. ;) Just curious--what abridged version did you teach? As a 9th-grader, I'm sure I would've enjoyed the novel much more if I'd had a more modern translation than the Wilbour.

As for Javert, yes, I felt kind of sorry for him too. He wasn't a saint or anything, but I did feel pity for him that he was unable to come out of his funk and live a more meaningful life after his "epiphany."
Incidentally, I found it odd that the Denny version left out some interesting details concerning Javert's death. His version is very poetic, but he just seemed to arbitrarily pick and choose what to include sometimes.


Lauren Mike wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I actually started learning it my freshman year but I picked it up really quickly."

Wow, you read LM after only 3 years of high-school French??? That's definitely amazing. I had a..."

Merci, Monsieur. I technically took my second level over a summer, so I was one level ahead of my classmates. My teacher had told me that her motivation to do well in French was that she wanted to be able to read the novel during her senior year. Since she's my favorite teacher and I'm her favorite student, she passed this goal on to me. It did include a chapter that talked about prostitution quite a bit, but I'm not sure if it's the one you're referring to.


Gentian It is an almost impossible task to pick just one character. They are all miserable in their own way, the only truly content people being the bishop and his sister, the Nuns and Fauchelvent and, conversely Thernadier who seems to be quite happy with his lot in life most of the time.

Fantine, Eponine, Valjean, Javert, Gavroche and his brothers and Cosette as a child and Marius' father are all tragic characters.

The passages that show Cosette in the tavern and in the woods reduce me to tears every time I read it and the sense of deliverance when Valjean picks up the bucket is palpably real. Similarly the moment when Javert realises that he has built his life on shifting sands is incredibly poigniant and the description of Gavroche looking after the two little brothers (although he does not know it) and protecting them from the rats in the elephant are heartrending. I found the description of Valjean after his sentence, miming the seven heads of his sister's children to be incredibly distressing and poor poor Fantine and her hideous, bloodstained smile.

I could go on, but I don't think the book can be broken down into who is the most miserable. Rather I read it that they are all miserable in their own way (to paraphrase Tolstoy). Much like Hardy's characters the starting point of the human condition is misery - some people may escape for a while and some lucky few escape for ever but it is a constant presence and a constant threat.


message 26: by Mike (last edited Jan 19, 2013 05:20AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Lauren wrote: Merci, Monsieur.

Je vous en prie, mademoiselle. :)

I technically took my second level over a summer, so I was one level ahead of my classmates.

Level? Do you live in Canada perhaps?

My teacher had told me that her motivation to do well in French was that she wanted to be able to read the novel during her senior year. Since she's my favorite teacher and I'm her favorite student, she passed this goal on to me.

That's sweet. Now you can go on to read Notre-Dame de Paris. ;)

It did include a chapter that talked about prostitution quite a bit, but I'm not sure if it's the one you're referring to.

Supposedly that chapter is included as an appendix in many French versions, but perhaps some even insert it into the main text.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Cosette in the beginning, fantine, and eponine


Sophie Fantine probably, then Cosette and ValJean. I don't think Eponine was truly miserable - it was more heartbreak.


Katherine The most mierable character have always been Cosette, and Epionie. I feel as if I walked in there shoes many of times but espically Cosette because of being given up for adoption and not knowing the people who gave me up so I could have a better live and finally falling in love with my Marius which is a guy a met in Middle school and we grew up in different high schools but reconnected and have been together ever since.


Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Lauren wrote: "Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, b..."
YES,I think Javert is the most miserable becausem he spent his life in a misguided attempt to achieve moral truth and justice, then couldn't deal with his own shortcomings.


message 31: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters Thernadiers maybe?


message 32: by Sara (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara I found Javert to be the most miserable in all of the misery. He loved no one and no one loved him. You could argue different for every other character.

"His whole life hung on these two words: watchfulness and supervision.....And, withal, a life of privation, isolation, abnegation, chastity, with never a diversion.... Javert's ideal, was not to be human, to be grand, to be sublime; it was to be irreproachable." "

Javert missed out on everything that is actually good in the world. ("A man without a woman is a pistol without a trigger; it is the woman that sets the man off") Then he finds out his whole belief system was a sham and his own internal conflict is what destroys him.


message 33: by Yun (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yun Yi By my opinion, definitely Fantine! I think that's why her name was used as the title of part 1. "Jean Valjean", as symbol of salvation, is used for the title of the last part (part 5) of the book.


message 34: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters Sara wrote: "I found Javert to be the most miserable in all of the misery. He loved no one and no one loved him. You could argue different for every other character.

"His whole life hung on these two words..."


Love it.


message 35: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters Um Sara, just out of interest, why did you give this book only four stars?
You might not have thought it through that much but... that surprised me!
Best,
K


message 36: by Sara (last edited Feb 07, 2013 08:40AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara Kit wrote: "Um Sara, just out of interest, why did you give this book only four stars?
You might not have thought it through that much but... that surprised me!
Best,
K"


The main reason is probably because I think a part of the story was missing. What did Fantine do for the first two years of Cosette's life? How did she take care of her then? Why the hell did she just leave her daughter with a stranger on the street? That never added up for me and it wasn't really explained in the book (unless it went over my head). We know she was desperate but we also know she had some money and had been taking care of the child up to that point. The whole story hinged on Cosette being given up, yet I never could justify Fantine's reason for doing so (or at the least, How she did it). I don't think Hugo could either, so he just left it out.


message 37: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters I do agree with that yes.
I found myself forgiving those things as I went through.
I suppose that's one of the things which make it not as strong as Tolstoy's epics... but then Tolstoy's books aren't as fantastic tales.
On the face of it Hugo's vast arcs are more exciting than Tolstoy's slow deliberate emancipation of the serfs, but because of that they're more difficult to justify.

Nice point.


Pndasmile @Sara: Please allow me give you the explanation running on my mind when I read the book:
1/ We can consider Fantine to be Tholomyes's mistress. He might buy her a great deal of clothes, jewelries and other sundry other items. She might also receive a humble income for being a mistress. (Mistress was still considered a kind of job at that time.) After Tholomyes's departure with the wind, she had to sell these things gradually in order to persist in staying alive. Also, Paris was (and always is) a luxurious place.
2/ Cosette's being given away is really obscure. In my reckoning, this twist may be explained by two reasons. First of all, France, at that time, was still fervent Catholic and women's rights was completely fictitious. Having a bastard was such a disgrace for a woman. As depicted in the novels, Fantine was not of a strong spirit. Thus, suffering the indignity was obviously not a wise choice for her. I think this justifies why Fantine had to leave Cosette.
But why did Fantine trust Mme. Thenardier? Fantine was not cunning, instead she had an honestest heart. Moreover, she belonged to the working class and when she had a romantic affair with Tholomyes, she soon forgot who she actually was. She bathed herself with sparkling rays of exuberance. A typical trait of a daydreaming teenager girl. After the lover abandoned her, she couldn't find any job in Paris. Of course, having an infant at home and not working for two years and being alone, how could she? It was really a bedlam and the idea of letting Cosette behind were devouring her mind. When Mme. Thenardier said those children were truly sisters, Fantine immediately catched the phrase. It was just a beam of light for her. Mr. Hugo already said in the book:
Nobody loves the light like the blind man.
In short, Fantine's heart was pure but she was also ignorant about villainy. Perhaps, Cosette inherited her mother's guileless innocence.
3/ The important point is that Fantine, and later Cosette, were not human. They were roses with seraphic fragrance. They were so perfectly pure. I think this was Mr. Hugo's intention, because later he said:
The darkly mysterious nettle had loved and protected the lily.

@Kit: I just have a look on your comments and I am so exalted that there IS a person who loves and enjoys the whole book.


message 39: by Yun (last edited Feb 07, 2013 04:08PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yun Yi @Sara, I can somehow understand Fantine "gives up" Cosette - a single young woman in a desperate situation that she could not support herself, so she naturally thinks she can "temporarily" have help from others. And her lack of experience makes her chooses wrong people. The details of this story line are not completely without flaws but, this is Les Miserable, an idealist work other than realistic.


message 40: by Sara (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara Pndasmile wrote: "@Sara: Please allow me give you the explanation running on my mind when I read the book:
1/ We can consider Fantine to be Tholomyes's mistress. He might buy her a great deal of clothes, jewelries a..."


Thank you for this, appreciate everyone's feedback.

Selling objects and not being able to work make sense. What doesn't make sense to me is that she had been a mother for two years (a reality slap if there ever was one) and could have at least made some sort of decent plan as of what to do in that amount of time. Like find a decent family if leaving Cosette was the only option. People do things that don't make any sense all the time though.


message 41: by Suha (new) - rated it 5 stars

Suha I would go with Jean Val Jean. The poor guy was a fugitive half his life, and thanks to Javert, he was restless and scared for himself and Cosette for so many years. Nothing seemed to go right for him all because he stole a loaf of bread for a good, understandable reason, mind you, not out of ill will.


message 42: by A.R. (new) - rated it 5 stars

A.R. Voss I always thought that Eponine and Fantine were the most miserables. reading the book again, I actually felt no remorse for Eponine, she was pathetic, but her misery was due to her ignorance. Fantine had a horrible turn of events, but she dies young and quick. But what felt the worst for me while I was reading the book was how Jean Valjean never felt he deserved a good life. Thinking of myself and how I enjoy the easy ways of life, makes me wonder how a man like Jean who became a millionaire and never lived a comfortable life (regardless of having the law on his hills) could cope. He definitely was a better man than I. Always giving generously without thought even to the scum of the earth like the Thenardiers. Willing to leave his beloved daughter who was all he had and cared for, just to keep her name pure; my vote goes to this man.


message 43: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters Love it, thanks Pndasmile.
I think you've rationalised Fantine quite well!

I certainly agree with your points Suha and A.R.
Certainly Jean Valjean lives for the others around him.
He is forced to give up his own identity because of an unfair legal system.
I suppose he does have the two periods which seem stable and happy enough; being the Mayor and in the Convent.
And at the end of his life everything comes full circle and completes for him... but you couldn't call it a happy ending!
;-)


Akira C. Sara wrote: "I found Javert to be the most miserable in all of the misery. He loved no one and no one loved him. You could argue different for every other character.

"His whole life hung on these two words..."


Agreed. He just tried to do what he thinks is right and the fact that he'd never known love just pains me. I just think he definitely deserves more sympathy.

I also cried a lot for Valjean, in the end. I feel legit tears welling up when he told Cosette not to call him father anymore and I started to sob when she slowly began to forget about him and I cried like mad when he stopped going to see her and she hardly noticed. That's probably the saddest part. But the saddest character is Javert.

(Sorry for my terrible English..)


message 45: by John (new) - rated it 4 stars

John Niemeyer I'm not sure how those that find Javert the most miserable get there. One must be conscious of the misery for it to count. Javert lived a life most of us, in a certain sense would envy. Everything was black and white neat and orderly. He was perfectly content with his notion of the world and how it operated. Those of us on the outside looking in can pity him because we know his error, but he doesn't. Ignorance is bliss, no? I think we see Javert as a miserable character because that is how we would feel if we were in Javert's shoes but with our knowledge of how the world operates. Javert is not Javert if he has a reason to be miserable.

The truly miserable characters endure years of misery; off and on for some, like Valjean, unabated for others like Fantine. They endured misery that even time and frequency of exposure could not condition out of them because after all as one becomes inured to misery it ceases to be misery.

Javert's acute misery at the end proves this for me. He was unprepared for such harsh realities, incapable of dealing with a sudden and disorienting assault on his mores. He endured for hours what the others endure for lives and I cannot balance his with theirs.


Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Jeni wrote: "I've never felt sorry for Javert until I saw the newest movie version of LM. I actually wept for him and his conflict.

For me, Fantine was thrust into miserable circumstances, but she wasn't a mi..."


I agree totally with your reasons that Fantine and Eponine were not the most miserable. I think Javert was the most miserable because he thought he was right and moral, yet never grew from his experiences and couldn't live with himself when Valjean treated him the exact opposite way he had anticipated and he was forced to see Valjean in a completely different light.


message 47: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters Akira wrote: "Sara wrote: "I found Javert to be the most miserable in all of the misery. He loved no one and no one loved him. You could argue different for every other character.

"His whole life hung on th..."


Your English is good!


message 48: by Kit (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters John wrote: "I'm not sure how those that find Javert the most miserable get there. One must be conscious of the misery for it to count. Javert lived a life most of us, in a certain sense would envy. Everything ..."

Very well reasoned point.


message 49: by Kit (last edited Feb 09, 2013 07:54AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kit Masters I guess the argument is one of whether you see miserable to mean "feeling" miserable or "being" miserable.
The former, as John points out, requires more emotions than Javert has.
The later implies the reader feeling pity for someone, in this case who has no human relationships, who is a miser.

Fantine, and Eponine probably fit into the first set.
Thernadiers probably the second.
What about Gavroche and the Students?

Loving this discussion.


message 50: by Sara (last edited Feb 09, 2013 02:09PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara John wrote: "I'm not sure how those that find Javert the most miserable get there. One must be conscious of the misery for it to count. Javert lived a life most of us, in a certain sense would envy. Everything ..."

Great point. But Javert never was conscious of being miserable because he was never consciously happy either. He never had anything to lose except his own ideal. Just because he isn't aware of his tragedy doesn't make it any less so, I think. It actually makes it more sad.


The other character that I found to be sad was the Bishop's sister's maid. The Bishop lived a pretty strict life and his sister seemed content in taking care of him but I wonder if that maid was happy cleaning that silverware every night and living off nothing. The Bishop did it for his own reasons, the sister too but the maid was just there because she had no where else to be.

I took this post question to mean "Which character had the most miserable fate" and not "Which character felt the most turmoil out of their misery". The question could lead to multiple interpretations and all the characters were pretty damn miserable. I can see why we all have different perceptions and answers.


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