Should have read classics discussion

This is the group read for February. Please remember to post spoilers if the discussion is early in the thread. This is a true should have read for me, I read this in high school and do not have pleasant memories. I will try the reread however, since I have found that my tastes have changed greatly in that time! Happy reading everyone and I hope that you enjoy the book!

For those who listen to audible versions, there is an audible version of Heart of Darkness read by Kenneth Branaugh. I haven't heard it myself, but I understand that it is very good.

I picked up my copy last night with trepidation. Ready to go and hopefully, this book will improve with age. Meaning my age and knowing that I don't have a term paper required on it!

Fortunately, it is relatively short.

I am scared to reread...I am having high school flashbacks like Lisa. I might be willing to try it on Audible however.

Read it a long time ago. I'll watch Apocalypse Now instead.

My favorite quotes:

(about sailors) Their minds are of the stay-at-home order, and their home is always with them - the ship; and so is their country - the sea. One ship is very much like another, and the sea is always the same. In the immutability of their surroundings the foreign shores, the foreign faces, the changing immensity of life, glide past, veiled not by a sense of mystery but by a slightly disdainful ignorance; for there is nothing mysterious to a seaman unless it be the sea itself, which is the mistress of his existence and as inscrutable as Destiny. For the rest, after his hours of work, a casual stroll or a casual spree on shore suffices to unfold for him the secret of a whole continent, and generally he finds the secret not worth knowing. The yarns of seamen have a direct simplicity, the whole meaning of which lies within the shell of a cracked nut. (chapter I)

(about Romans and imperialism)
They were conquerors, and for that you want only brute force - nothing to boast of, when you have it, since your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others. They grabbed what they could get for the sake of what was to be got. It was just robbery with violence, aggravated murder on a great scale, and men going at it blind - as is very proper for those who tackle a darkness. The conquest of the earth which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion or slightly flatter noses than ourselves, is not a pretty thing when you look into it too much. What redeems it is the idea only. An idea at the back of it; not a sentimental pretence but an idea; and an unselfish belief in the idea - something you can set up, and bow down before, and offer a sacrifice to...

(about hunfer)
No fear can stand up to hunger, no patience can wear it out, disgust simply does not exist where hunger is; and as to superstition, beliefs, and what you may call principles, they are less than chaff in a breeze. Don't you know the devilry of lingering starvation, its exasperating torment, its black thoughts, its sombre and brooding ferocity? Well, I do. It takes a man all is inborn strength to fight hunger properly. It's really easier to face bereavement, dishonour, and the perdition of one's soul - than this kind of prolonged hunger. Sad, but true. And these chaps, too, had no earthly reason for any kind of scruple. Restraint! I would just as soon have expected restraint from a hyena prowling amongst the corpses of a battlefield. (chapter 2)

Lisa wrote: "I picked up my copy last night with trepidation. Ready to go and hopefully, this book will improve with age. Meaning my age and knowing that I don't have a term paper required on it!"

I had to read it twice in a couple years, for college classes... I understand your trepidation!

I really liked this book when I read it over 20 years ago in grad school.

I hesitate to say this for fear of being misunderstood, but I was tasked with writing a paper on this book and all of the research material was geared towards flagellating Joseph Conrad for his treatment of Africans and especially African women. So, perversely, I wrote my paper defending him from these charges, and theorized that he was actually a great lover of Africa and the wild untamed lands. Anyway, it will be nice to just *read* the book, without searching for a thesis statement!

Has anyone out there read State of Wonder? It seems to me owe a lot to Heart of Darkness.

It helps to understand the book if you know a little of the events taking place in Africa at the time. A great book is King Leopold's Ghost: A Story of Greed, Terror and Heroism in Colonial Africa.

Yes, a lot of modern literature owes a debt to Heart of Darkness. I can see that theme in State of Wonder. It is even more pronounced in A Bend in the River by V.S. Naipaul.

Beth wrote: "I hesitate to say this for fear of being misunderstood, but I was tasked with writing a paper on this book and all of the research material was geared towards flagellating Joseph Conrad for his tre..."

I recently took a class in imperialism and we had to read Heart of Darkness first. There was a debate on whether or not Conrad was a racist, but I think most of us agreed that he was appalled at the abuses of imperialism he saw in Africa. It seems obvious to me that he appreciated, yet feared the wild untamed Africa.

I started this last night and after reading the comments I decided that I would start with the introduction first. I have found his life quite interesting. His passion for exploration was amazing. It said that his interest in Africa was peaked when he saw a map that had a giant white space in the middle of the African continent and how he wanted to fill those spaces in. Then when he became old enough most of the white was filled in and then the continent became the heart of darkness. I'm finding the back story very interesting and I hope this helps with better understanding and liking this story.

I can see why my younger self would find this book tedious, however with age I can see the value of this book. I'm enjoying it much better this time around. The two women knitting the black thread remind me of the women that were knitting at the bottom of the guillotine during the French Revolution.

Do you think the women knitting are a reference to the Fates?

That could well be, I hadn't thought of it that way. It is wonderful imagery!

I have made it to the station and beyond. I must say that the frustration that Conrad feels for what is being done to Africa really does come through in his writing. It makes the situation when he describes the station manager as someone who has no ability, but has a healthy constitution which is the only reason he made it so high up the ladder.

Still plugging along with this one and I have some questions. Who is this Kurtz suppoesed to represent? And the Russian what about him? I know that I'm missing something.

I don't remember the Russian, but these two sites might help you understand some aspects of the book better: www.shmoop.com/heart-of-darkness and www.marketgems.com/heartofdarkness/sy...

This mentions the Russian: www.marketgems.com/heartofdarkness/ Go to the link for characters.

Thank you very much for those links Emily! I finished the book and was floundering in the meaning of it. I could grasp some of it, but I have to admit it was going over my head at the end. Maybe, that was due to the glazing over that my eyes were doing at the time. I like the summary of Shmoop that talked about how each of us have moments of self-darkness, was helpful. I can relate completely about wanting the guy behind whacked with a dodge ball. What an amazing book! It does bring up wonderful questions about man's humanity. Thanks for making me reread this one!
What did everyone else think?

This was the third time I've read Heart of Darkness, with the first being over thirty years ago. It gets better every time I read it. I think there are multiple reasons for that. One is that as I get older, and have lived longer, I can relate to it in a different way. But also I think that I pick up new things each time I read it. Another factor, I think, is that I tend to read or reread it around the same time as something new has come out that was heavily influenced by it. In the late seventies, it was the movie Apocalypse Now. This time it was Ann Patchett's State of Wonder. So each time I read it, I see it partly as the source and inspiration for some modern retelling. That the original inspires these modern retellings and homages says a lot about the depth and "truth" of the original.

I read this as a senior in high school. I read it on my own and again in class (my teacher just couldn't read passages so she ended up reading the entire book to us). We really analyzed the themes in this book and Conrad's use of antithesis (light/dark; savage/refined; African/westerner). My teacher loved the book and she would often grab my copy because I highlighted the passages she liked (because I liked them too. Not just to be a pet).

We watched apocalypse now because it is very loosely based on this book. And so it has left quite an impression on my reading life. I have never read it as an adult, so perhaps I should see what I recall on a third reading.

Its great but not without flaws in its execution. Maddening flaws.

Conrad is valorized but when you work your way through his bibliography you can find some real howlers. I've re-read HoD many times, trying to convince myself that the 'perfection' is really there..and that in this audacious and ingenious concept he does not fall prey to the editorial flaws found in some of his other lesser efforts..but my wish is in vain. Its a frustrating experience. It could have been his best piece ever. Its not.

Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid.

This book has influenced numerous movies and books. It is one of the best books written against imperialism.

Lisa wrote: "Still plugging along with this one and I have some questions. Who is this Kurtz suppoesed to represent? And the Russian what about him? I know that I'm missing something."

So I just found this thread as I thought I would pick up a classic. Should be starting it soon. Late to the party on this one...

No problem, I hope that you find it an interesting read. None of the group read threads are closed to comments since new people join the group.

Lisa wrote: "No problem, I hope that you find it an interesting read. None of the group read threads are closed to comments since new people join the group."

Looking forward to it. I'm sure I read it once, long ago, but it's good to pick it up again.

Just finished Sun Also Rises as I was reading The Paris Wife.

Katy, if you have been reading the Paris Wife, you should also look for the newest edition of A Moveable Feast. It's the original manuscript, which turned up in a trunk in the attic of some place Hemingway had stayed while in Paris. The version that was published in 1964 after Hemingway's death was edited by one of his wives, and she really did not like Fitzgerald. The original edition has a very different flavor in places. Also, the new edition includes some never-before-published "Paris sketches," about experiences Hemingway had in Paris with Hadley and their son, Jack.

Casceil wrote: "Katy, if you have been reading the Paris Wife, you should also look for the newest edition of A Moveable Feast. It's the original manuscript, which turned up in a trunk in the attic of..."

Wow, thanks for the tip.