The Importance of Reading Ernest discussion

Here is our discussion folder for The Sea Change. Post your threads here, and don't forget to mark *spoilers*.

I read this story. Short. Possibly too short. I'm not sure I understand why she left him. And why toss in the barman bit? Why name him and not the couple?

As usual, Hemingway does a good job of presenting a scene with few words. I could see the MAN and the GIRL in the bar talking, but I felt like I walked into the middle of something and then the GIRL left in the middle. And I'm going be walking all day trying to figure out what I missed in this story.

Any enlightenment out there would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much to Brad for trusting me to lead this discussion.

And to Ruth for turning up so quickly with an excellent comment.

Just now I read the story once more. And I agree with Ruth, the naming is a bit strange. Why name some and not others? Got to think about that. But we know the man is called Phil. And we know the bartender is named James. Hem must have found that significant. And why not give us the girl's name?

It seems to me the key word in this story is CHANGE, hence Hem's choice of title. A relationship is certainly changing. The girl leaves Phil to be with a woman. Now how will that work out? She's coming back, she says. And she might. She still loves him, she says. But how will Phil respond if the relationship continues - after her diversion (which he calls perversion).

Apart from the sexual implications in this story, I hope you'll all comment on Hem's skills with dialogue at this stage of his writing career. Do you think he's come a long way since stories like 'Indian Camp' (where dialogue seems experimental) and 'Hills Like White Elephants' (which is often regarded as one of his finest)?

And what about viewpoints? We shift from Phil to the barman (who wonders whether or not his horse might win). What made Hem do that? I was quite happy to stay with Phil all along.

You may all have different angles on this story, like Ruth did. Please comment when you feel ready. We have till the 24th.

Hey

I've been thinking about this story, the name thing and the fact that he calls the female in the relationship a girl and the male in the relationship a man … and honors him with a name. At this point, obviously, feminist literary criticism theories pop into my head and I don't want to start the discussion of Hemingway's treatment of female characters here.

I was OK with the sexual implications (if I interpreted them properly) but her claim that she's coming back threw a curve in my thoughts. With that phrase in mind, I was then thinking maybe she was leaving at an inopportune time to help a friend in need. But then the perversion word throws a boomerang back to original thoughts.

I'm also thinking maybe he decided to tossed in James and the other bar folk to imply life goes on even while a relationship is ending.

I'm going to try and re-read after reading others comments and maybe I'll have a new perspective.

Thanks

Ruth wrote: "I felt like I walked into the middle of something and then the GIRL left in the middle. And I'm going be walking all day trying to figure out what I missed in this story...."

I think that is really insightful, Ruth, and may have been exactly what Hemingway was going for. I always find myself feeling his stories first, before I begin to understand them, and I wonder if he was cuing us to feel like we walked into the middle of something by having the bar patrons walk in during the story itself to interrupt the flow. Kind of the literary equivalent of light refracting off the lens in a movie -- a reminder that we are intruders on a private moment between two people.

If that was his intention, I think he nailed it!

Despite feeling like I might have missed the gist of the story, I enjoyed it. I think Hemingway did an excellent job using dialog to create a memorable scene with interesting characters.

My thanks to Ruth and Brad for comments.

Time is now up for 'The Sea Change', and I've clearly not presented the story in an inspiring manner. Apologies. Multiple questions in one entry just didn't work.

But thanks for the chance to take the lead. From now on I prefer to follow Brad, who always does an excellent job.

When 'Out of Season' is in place, I'll be back with comments.

A suggestion for a future read: 'The Undefeated'. I know it's a longer story, but you might all agree that the dialogue is superb. So is the characterization.

Best wishes to all.

They sounded like two yuppies in a bar. A man and a girl breaking each others heart but we learn the girl had a different view of life so why did she decide it was the best? In fact they both decided? Funny how expressions Hemingway has chosen gives pricks in its intention of a break up without looking back. The Paris setting in the story sounded believable. Two people hooked up with alternative life styles. This couple who couldn’t make ends saw the way they were. They choose to respond and as her way of an excuse to find someone else appropriately rich or artistic she could use.

It's interesting to me, that so many of his stories imply sexual experimentation with the gay/lesbian lifestyles, or people trying to figure out their persuasions. makes you wonder about his sexual feelings in his life,and his sons, in particular, one of them. was it gregory, the cross dresser? gender issues seem "big" with hemingway. it just seems like a "theme" papa wants to explore over and over, doesn't it?

so... any thoughts boys and girls????

I just reread this story. One thing is for sure, Hemingway uses few words, but gives a big punch with inferring what's in the story,and allowing the reader to figure out, on their own, what's really going on. it seems to me, that his stories are something you savor, something you go back to , time,and again,and more of the meaning hits you, as you do your multiple readings.... any thoughts?