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Book PR Firms
The data on Book PR firms are sketchy at best as to if they increase book sales or not. You always need to weigh the cost of PR or any other expense with the cost of returns and that is very hard to do with self published books.
So it really depends on what each writers goals and expectations are. Out selling King or Martin, lofty goal, but not very realistic for self published writers. Selling a few hundred to friends and family, very attainable. Selling 10,000 or more units would put a self published writer in the top of the success group, but no near what publishers want to see.
Be realistic about your goals and spend your money on professional editing and book cover designs and you might, just might, attain your minimum goals...
Larissa, Checking out The Lotus Files here and on Amazon, some things stand out.
You've got 200+ people who have marked it as To-Read (200!). That's huge!
You've got almost all five-star reviews on Amazon- everyone who reads the book, loves it.
But the sales rank is #500,000 something, which is very volatile, I know (1 sale will take it up to 70,000 in the Kindle Store), but with those great reviews and that strong a to-read list, that book should be taking off.
So yes, your decision to seek PR help is probably justified- anyone who reads your book loves it, and just enough eyeballs aren't seeing it.
The only thing I would suggest is that your price is a little high for an ebook ($8.99) - compare the cost of just making your book free for a weekend (Mother's Day weekend, perhaps?) to juice those Amazon ranking numbers, vs. how much you would spend on a PR firm- which would have the greatest direct return?
I'm betting it's making your book free for a weekend. You're primed for a breakout, I think.
Just my thoughts.
Larissa, Making the book free won't do anything towards the paid rankings. If anything, once the free promo period is over, paid sales rank will actually drop much lower, since you will have x number of days with 0 paid sales.
If you have 200+ who marked your book as To-Read, it seems like you've caught peoples attention. You may want to try lowering the price a little, since that will increase your sales. I think when you make the price a little more attractive, some of those To-Reads will change to Reading.
Free books don't affect Amazon rankings anymore? Then how is the Kindle Select Program supposed to help at all? What are those 5 giveaway days for? I know they changed the ranking algorithm recently, so Omar, please let me know before I make my book free!But yes, if that's true, a lower price ($2.99 or so) will help your breakout more than free.
Now Amazon promotes the Select program as a way of promoting interest in your book. Before Amazon made the change, your promo downloads would carry over into the overall ranking, and many authors would see a spike in book sales. After the change, a much lower number of authors see the spike in sales after the free promo, and some even see a decrease in sales, since their book goes down in ranking after the free promo.
I suppose the program is good for new authors and those of us who aren't very good with marketing and promoting, like me. It's good to use as a tool to get a book to a large audience very quickly. The problem now is that there are so many authors offering free promo's that it may be months before a reader gets to your book.
There are better ways now to get interest in your book instead of the Select program, so I would recommend not doing it. There's a separate discussion on the program 'Any authors in the KDP Select Program?' where you can get feedback from both sides of the fence.
I don't plan to join the Select program and will take the slow approach of generating interest in my book, word of mouth and learning how to promote and market.
Thank you for the feedback Gentlemen! I'm happy with the progress the book has made so far but I feel like I've saturated my network. I have been considering dropping the price of my E-book and feel more comfortable doing so now. I participated in the KDP Select Program when I first launched the book and did see some spikes in sales but it varied. I don't plan on participating anymore as the book is now available on iBooks and Nook. I will admit that I haven't seen as many sales as I have with Amazon however, in considering a PR company, the exposure I anticipate will make having those available more beneficial. I agree with Omar that KDP Select is a good tool in the beginning of a book launch. I started thinking about how many books I was giving away vs the sales afterwards and honestly the math doesn't make sense to me. Give away a thousand books and sell 10-20? I never even received a review after the free promos. I value my product more and because I'm using the book to raise money for a scholarship in honor of my mother I try to be more analytical with what I give away. I have done two Goodreads giveaways and had more success with getting reviews afterwards and I believe that's a big part of why so many people added it "to read".
I've done extensive research on the two firms I'm considering (Smith Publicity & Ascot Media) but am still desiring feedback from someone who's used them that's not a testimonial on their website. It's a big investment and a calculated risk that I'm willing to take but I just need a little more information before I take the plunge.
I am considering a blog blast PR firm too (for my Storm Chase books, erotica) but like you I am hesitating. I am looking at the sites they use and checking for comments. I don't see as many comments as I'd like (less than 30 on most) but for all I know they have hundreds of visitors. It's all very difficult to see what works and what doesn't.I've decided that as I only have two books out at present for the adult market (and 1 for New Adults) that I'm going to wait until I have 4 titles for the adult market. Then only will I do promos and see what happens.
When I do start my promos, I'm going to save my money until I see what sort of feedback I get. I plan to do free promos only for the first six months. If it works, then I may use paid promo to push from "niche" into "mainstream".
I like this thread. It's very interesting to hear what you all do and think.
I'm currently 3 months into a 12 months PR campaign with JoTo PR. Diane Stein is one of the principals.http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/11...
While it is too soon to impact book sales, I'm getting stellar results in terms of coverage.
I'm certain PR has to be an integral part of any good marketing strategy. After all, it's what the Trad Publisher's have always done.
Best,
MAS
The big trade publishers do not market to the average readers. They market in publication that specialized to the buyer who buys for book stores, libraries, and book clubs. Their marketing dollars are allotted to very specific targets and not scatter shot in hopes of getting a few dozen readers. They also have marketing teams that go to buyers conventions and the stores in person.In the world of e publishing, the big six and lots of small indie publishers, market to very specific targets. They market where the greatest number of readers are going to spot an ad. They want their ad dollars to mean something. If they sell on Amazon, then they advertise on Amazon, Goodreads, IBooks, Samhain, etc.
But bare in mind, the big boys flood these e-vendor sites with ads and videos because they can afford to do so. They already have deals in place for a certain number of ad dollars per quarter. This allows them to get discounts from these e-vendors. Something you and I can not get.
Having owned and operated a commercial real estate firm for more than 35 years, I've managed to learn a couple things about marketing. It is true, the shotgun approach to marketing is less than ineffective. It's wasteful, bordering on criminal--the cause of death for many failed businesses. Publishing (self, or otherwise) is no different.The key is finding your target public, then discovering what they want and need. I use market surveys extensively before spending a dime on PR or advertising campaigns.
For a real-life look at what it takes to make it in the writing business, I highly recommend Kristine Kathryn Rusch's authoritative blog http://kriswrites.com/business-rusch-...
While few of us have the marketing budgets of the big boys, we can and should learn from their strategies and tactics. Bottomline, it IS a business. And regardless of the quality of your books, if no one knows about them, they have NO CHANCE of selling.
Yes, but no amount of advertising is going help a badly written book once the reviews start coming out...
Shuvom wrote: "Larissa, Checking out The Lotus Files here and on Amazon, some things stand out.
You've got 200+ people who have marked it as To-Read (200!). That's huge!
You've got almost all five-star revi..."
I read what you wrote above and wondered, if one has 146 people with a book on their to-read list, that's good? I am currently having a book give away and over two hundred have logged in but the question I have is will that really make a difference? That once the contest is over, those who put it on their list to read may remove it. Or is that concept wrong?
To be read list are somewhat meaningless. Many put books on their to be read list and it stays there, forgotten. A lot of what you see here on Goodreads are self published authors supporting other self published authors by putting books on to be read list. Means very little to sales...I have had a Ford Mustang on my to get list for a long time. So what does that mean to Ford's bottom line? Nothing, its a big maybe...
You have a point Nick. So how does one conduct effective PR here on Goodreads and other places on the web with no budget?
Nick, with all due respect, do you have any positive insights lol? Almost everything you've posted on this thread is dismal at best. I completely understand the need to have realistic goals but goodness! I agree with Michael, not EVERYTHING will equate to new sales immediately BUT when your product whatever it may be is of GOOD quality, when people see it enough or hear about it enough, and they need it, they will buy it. Period. L.M., the "To-read" list additions have not made me a millionaire however, they do continue to advertise my book. My bright pink cover, stands out and if it will lead a perspective reader to make the purchase eventually then great! All of mine have come from the giveaways I did and they remained after the giveaway was completed.
L.M., I believe it's unrealistic to have "no budget". Any agent will ask you for your marketing plan and it's almost impossible to be taken seriously with no budget. You have to be willing to invest in your work if truly want it to get it exposed. However, like Nick said this is in addition to investing in the book with the cover, editing etc to ensure that you're promoting a quality product. It really has to be treated like a business. I'm not an expert, but based on my experience so far that's the difference in selling a few books to friends and family and breaking out of your network. You need a promotional budget to give and send free books to influential people at minimum. There are a lot of scams out there and a lot of people willing to take your hard earned money making claims of what they can't and won't do. This is why I posted this thread to get real feedback from authors who have tried PR and those more expensive routes of promotion so that we can be assured that we're not getting duped. I would only consider this next level of promotion when you're certain that your work is ready for that level of exposure and that takes a lot of grunt work and investment of your time and money.
Larissa wrote: "L.M., I believe it's unrealistic to have "no budget". Any agent will ask you for your marketing plan and it's almost impossible to be taken seriously with no budget. You have to be willing to inves..."By "no budget" I referred to doing things oneself. There are places on the internet that allow you to promote for free, it's just a matter of where are they and how to contact them. My choices, at this point and in this economy, is eat or promote a book.
Larissa wrote: "L.M., I believe it's unrealistic to have "no budget". Any agent will ask you for your marketing plan and it's almost impossible to be taken seriously with no budget. You have to be willing to inves..."I am not sure where you get the idea that agents will ask for a marketing plan?
Agents work for the author. They sell your work to publishers who have marketing already in place. No sale, no 15-20 percent commission.
None of the agents I have had or talked to cared about marketing plans by the writer. They do care if the writing is good and if they can sell it... Period.
As to my attitude, I am hopefully seen as watching out for the uninformed self published writers that have swallowed the self publishing gurus kool-aid that you can get rich and famous and don't need agents and publishers.
Right now, the kool aid is sour and the numbers do not add up. Are there exceptions? Yes, there are always exceptions, but these exceptions should not be looked upon as anyone can do it...
Someone needs to speak honestly and straight forward about the difficulty of self publishing. And as I have said before...I am not against or for self publishing. That is a decision each writer has to make for themself and hopefully they are making informed decisions and not based on the kool aid test...
Nick,Again, I am working off of my experience. The agents that I have reached out to wanted to see a marketing plan on my behalf. That doesn't bother me as I'm not the person who wants to sit back and wait for someone else to do all the work for me. And for the record, I don't drink Kook Aid. I'm a positive, realistic individual with a plan for my book. It's clear that you're jaded however I'm not, nor does it seem are the individuals who have commented on this thread. There's a fine line between being realistic and being negative. Perhaps it's your delivery. Thank you for your feedback but I'd like to get this thread back on the track of the original question I posed. All the best!
Nick wrote: "To be read list are somewhat meaningless. Many put books on their to be read list and it stays there, forgotten. A lot of what you see here on Goodreads are self published authors supporting othe..."Good point.
Larissa wrote: "Nick,Again, I am working off of my experience. The agents that I have reached out to wanted to see a marketing plan on my behalf. That doesn't bother me as I'm not the person who wants to sit bac..."
Obviously, your experience is very limited when it comes to reputable agents.
Nick wrote: "To be read list are somewhat meaningless. Many put books on their to be read list and it stays there, forgotten. A lot of what you see here on Goodreads are self published authors supporting othe..."It would be great if the "to read" list translated into sales, but in my experience it doesn't. I just did a Goodreads giveaway for my novel REALITIES, which has a professional cover and was professionally edited. There are no mistakes in it that I am aware of. I am confident enough of the work that was done on it to hold it up to any trade publication. I'm not saying this to brag. The work was put into it. Over 1100 people signed up for the Giveaway, and 562 people have it on their "to read" bookshelves. You can check it out with this ink:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15...
Now for the results: The giveaway didn't result in one sale!
Larissa: Instead of arguing with Nick, you might listen to him. Also, I have been represented by reputable agents, and I have never heard of one
who asked for a marketing plan. You should check out the following site and search through it for information that you will find helpful. The site will help you recognize scams. Also, you can post your questions there and ask about specific agents, naming them.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/f...
Marian, that's good advice with respect to jumping on others. This is about helping each other.
Marian, That's a good anecdote, but now we have to ask ourselves WHY. Your giveaway obviously sparked enough interest for someone to stop their busy lives, and out of the 2 million books on Goodreads, choose to add yours. So why didn't that momentum continue into sales?
These folks want good books to read, otherwise they wouldn't be on this site. I don't have the answer, but if I were you, I would start running experiments to see what will push a TBR into a buy. (The book "The Lean Startup" is big on running marketing experiments, NOT surveys, to find this vital customer info.)
Cheaper price? Different blurb? Special event ("Every book bought in May supports Cancer Reasearch?)? We're each the CEOs of our own book startups, and it's our job description to know why our customers act the way they do. Take 50 of those TBRs and message them personally- "What stopped them from buying?"
Following up on the to-reads is a great idea. But do you really think that the ones you reach out to for an answer would tell you? I read somewhere in one of these posts, or in another group, someone had 1,500 books on their to-read list. Maybe these individuals are doing the same, putting numerous books on their to read list and just not getting to them or change their mind. When one removes your book from the to-read list, is that reflected on your stats?
Shuvom wrote: "Marian, That's a good anecdote, but now we have to ask ourselves WHY. Your giveaway obviously sparked enough interest for someone to stop their busy lives, and out of the 2 million books on Good..."
I don't think messaging them personally is the right thing to do. People feel free on this website to make choices, and I don't think their choices should be questioned, particularly by authors, just as I don't think authors should contact people who have left them negative reviews.
It's easy to click on a book to put it on one's to read shelf. The answer could be that simple.
L.M. wrote: "Following up on the to-reads is a great idea. But do you really think that the ones you reach out to for an answer would tell you? I read somewhere in one of these posts, or in another group, someo..."I think that contacting people would make them uncomfortable. Probably people just aren't getting to them because they're always clicking on another book.
It's generally considered bad form to contact readers, even those who have put your book on their to be read list.Stuff like that is what turns readers off of writers, when they feel pressured to respond to a request on why they wrote a review a certain way, or why they have not bought the book yet.
I think if you do a little digging on GR, you are going to find a lot of those To Be Read list are self published authors supporting other self published authors. Nothing wrong with that of course, but we all only have so many $$$ we can spend on the books we really want. In reality, there are more self published writers than $$$ and readers to go around in most cases...
Shuvom wrote: "Marian, That's a good anecdote, but now we have to ask ourselves WHY. Your giveaway obviously sparked enough interest for someone to stop their busy lives, and out of the 2 million books on Good..."
I think if you check the Goodreads rules, you will find that they explicitly ask you NOT to contact giveaway entrants for any reason.
Even without that, I would not bother. People enter giveaways because they want free books. If they do not win yours, they have many alternatives.
The giveaway does do two things. It exposes your book to people who might otherwise never see it. And it raises the profile of the book by increasing the number of to-reads, making it marginally more likely that it will show up on lists. That's it.
So think of it as cheap advertising. That's all it is.
Marian, Thank you very much for the link! I will certainly check it out. My point of reference regarding agents requesting a marketing plan is the 21st Annual Edition 2012 Guide to Literary Agents by Chuck Sambuchino. There are plenty of agents in this guide that ask for a marketing plan as a part of your initial contact with them. Have you or anyone you know worked with a Book PR Firm? Thanks again!
Larissa wrote: "Marian, Thank you very much for the link! I will certainly check it out. My point of reference regarding agents requesting a marketing plan is the 21st Annual Edition 2012 Guide to Literary Agent..."
Look in the Literary Market Place, also known as the LMP, for agents who belong to a professional association. You are far more likely to find the names of reputable agents.
You can also check out http://www.agentquery.com/ which will list agents that have been vetted, their contact information, the genres they represent, if they are open to submission or closed, and what their submission guidelines are. As to Chuck's book, the more agents he list, including agents that are somewhat questionable, then the more of a book he has. There is also the fact that a lot of the information is outdated or not really vetted well. I know of several agents who have gone on to other agencies, but in Chucks book they are still listed at their old agencies. Even some of the email addresses for agents are wrong and that's because these agents have not responded to Chuck's updates so he leaves the old information in.
You can also check out Writers Beware if you have any questions about an agent, agency or publishers qualifications.
I would also like to be clear that I am not saying any agent or publisher is going to turn a writer down because they have a well established web presence with a good following. But web presence is different from marketing.
Larissa wrote: "Nick, with all due respect, do you have any positive insights lol? Almost everything you've posted on this thread is dismal at best. I completely understand the need to have realistic goals but goo..."Well said, Larissa. :-)
Michael wrote: "I'm currently 3 months into a 12 months PR campaign with JoTo PR. Diane Stein is one of the principals.http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/11...
While it is too soon to impact book..."
When you say stellar results in terms of coverage, what do you mean? What sort of coverage have you received?
Hey I am a recent college graduate with a B.S. in Public Relations and I have also been a book review blogger for close to 5 yrs. and I support indie authors always. I am just throwing it out there if you would rather go with someone that knows social media and knows how to market authors and not go with a firm persay then email me, message me, whatever I would love the opportunity to work with anyone that needs a little promoting help. I am freelance and not connected to a firm. If you want to know what I read mostly it is adult southern chick lit and Young Adult paranormal fantasy, high fantasy and dystopian.
Good to know, Leann.And, if anyone needs help launching a biz book, drop me a line.
I helped promote, and am credited in, "The Pumpkin Plan", written by Mike Michalowicz.
whether you hire a firm or not. you are still going to need to do the work. TV coverage-razor thin. I've got 3 spots-but only BC my book is controversial. as someone who would rather publish writers than write. I can offer. there are tons of great stories. tons of great writers. but no one cares who you are. its tough to hear. think how many fantastic athletes there are that ride the bench. now think how many people think their writing is amazing. it might be. but short of people who love to read ( like me and many on here). no one cares. the barrier to entry is too low. I would argue the PR you need will have very little with content and everything about what you personally can market. I saw a ton of terrible movies last year! do you want to write a literary masterpiece or sell a ton of books? you might be able to do both. God bless you if you do. when I was acting in terrible films someone asked me "do you want to be an actor or a movie star?" but if u want to send me $1000 I'll write a press release and spam every news station. (not really) what are you ultimately selling? what is the news people who aren't already looking for great books going to see?
If you are considering hiring a book pr firm, please contact me. You can visit my web site bookbuzz.com to find out more about me or google "Susannah Greenberg Public Relations." I have been in the book industry for many years, represented many best selling authors and major publishers. Responding to changes in the business, I am now representing select self-published authors who I think have media potential. I am also happy to answer an book pr questions here on this forum. I wish you all the best in your book publishing and writing endeavors! Authors are to be cherished.
Hello Susannah, I would like to find out more about your services. Please contact me through GoodREads or at hendersonsmith@hotmail.com. Thanks, Henderson
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Say you're selling your book through Amazon/B&N/Apple for $4.99. And you're getting a few sales, not great, but a few.
Now you're thinking about marketing. Promotions. Agents.
The question to be answered first is how much all this will cost. Then see how much that cost reduces what you've received on a per-book basis.
If you've been getting, say, $1.75, and the promotions will cost you, again a for example, $0.75 per book, that drops your profit to $1 per book.
Would it not be at least as effective to drop the cost of your book to $2.99, what I'm told is the break-point for indie publishers? At that price or below it, people are likely to buy the book. Above that point (where my books currently are), you're going to lose sales.
So the question before hiring any of the no-doubt excellent promotional firms is, Will my profit justify the risk?
And a final point: representing best-selling authors and well-established firms is meaningless; what results have you achieved representing the unknown author whose work is maybe a little less in quality than John Grisham?
I would certainly like advice from fellow authors, but my experience has been that in this new publishing world, no matter how good the book, it is hard to find an audience in this saturated market without finding support from readers. Last month, Amazon added 100,000 new titles alone! I've been getting excellent reviews on my books, but you've still got to find the readers. Amazon does so many freebies, even that entry is a difficult one. I did a free giveaway for five days and only got one review from 250 downloads. From everything I've read on Goodreads, it's all about getting reviews to push your book sales. Any ideas or methods that have worked for you fellow authors? Thanks, Henderson
The ebook market is becoming one glorious slushpile. Yes, there are cheap books, as we say, 'out there,' but how many have you found worth keeping on your device? Very few, if any, in my case.
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But putting money firmly where mouth (or keyboard!) went yesterday, I decided it was time to see if lowering the price of my books will have an effect. Combat Wizard is still running on the Countdown Deal, so it's off limits probably until the end of the month, maybe longer. But both my other books are now priced at that mythical break point which supposedly encourages sales and readership.
I'll report on results in a few weeks.
Good luck, Jack. Look forward to hear about soaring sales! Have you mastered the process of giving away on Good Reads? I'm finding it very tricky.
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I have a feeling that free books, even print ones, are easily ignored. So offering the books is expensive, and I wonder how effective it is.
Free ebooks, I'd be willing to give it a try. But not as the program is currently set up.
Instead, I'll reduce the price and see what happens. I'm not sure if there are independent statistics claiming that a contest on goodreads is an effective marketing tool (limited number of potential readers in any genre, and if you give away 20 books or so to that limited readership you're bound to reduce possible sales later!), but there are several studies I've seen claiming that people will risk a dollar, maybe two, on an unknown writer, but beyond the three-dollar limit they balk.
This is what I think is happening with my books.
Even then, offering a $3 book at a discount for a limited time will likely spur sales. Somewhere down the line, I'll try that with my other books, particularly Darwin's World; but not until I've got the sequel ready for publication, probably about the end of the month.
Patience; gotta have patience!
Bestsellership wasn't built in a day!
If anyone is still looking for a PR firm, I work for Mark My Words. You can find us at markmywordsbookpublicity.com and we'd love to have you!
if you want there is a site called www.heibooks.com :)you submit the information of your books and they create a promotion page on their site. it's all free, 0 costs. they also make you an interview, if you want!!
www.heibooks.com
I'm interested in taking the big step of hiring a Book PR firm to take the visibility of my book The Lotus Files to the next level. I'm familiar with Smith Publicity but am interested in learning about other firms. Are there any success stories out there? Any insight? Please share! Thank you and Happy New Year!