Fantasy Book Club Series discussion

For those of us who just couldn't wait to read this in May.

I finished this on the morning of the Ides of January. I'm still mulling it over. And I'm still trying to decide if the ending promised was worth the twenty year wait and all the hype.

After barely 24-hours, I have a handful of rare gems that still make me shiver or tear up, but that's among literally thousands upon thousands of bits of dust that cluttered, confounded and obfuscated them.

I'm waiting to write a review until I get over my usual funk that arises every time I finish reading a long epic fantasy novel. In this particular case, that's exacerbated and compounded by the ending of an epic series.

As I've said, at least to myself, my biggest regret throughout this entire experience is the lack of Lan. I wanted more of his viewpoint, always, and still.

Spoilers are allowed. You've been warned.

Interesting. I read book one and opted out, as the immature characters drove me crazy and I'm tired of 'evil' foes. I've been waiting to see what you think.

Almost finished. For me, it will take a pretty awesome book to top this one this year.

My feelings are mixed. On the one hand, Rand ended up exactly as I thought he would (minus the pipe powers), body swap included, and the book itself was probably the best written of the Sanderson books, but I really would've wanted more time spent on solving (or at least starting to solve) the Seanchan slavery issue and preferably a united White and Black tower and less never ending battles. There was just so much time spent with "new" characters (Gawyn - although I'm glad he died in vain :P and Galad etc) and no time at all spent with Nynaeve and Moiraine. Moiraine coming back ended up being such a non-event. She's there and follows Rand to the Pit of Doom and does...bugger all as far as I can tell (except working as a conduit for Saidar)?

At the very least an epilogue with a little closure for those characters would have been nice.

I also found the whole Sharan thing highly problematic.

I'm glad I read the last three books, but I doubt I'll read the series again. It's been with me for over 2 decades, and I still love the first 6 books or so, but 14 books is too unwieldy for an end I know I'm not entirely pleased with.

Just finished, and I'll need some time to think everything through. But my first reaction is that this is a very fine ending to the series.

Is it perfect? Nope. But it's a far shot better than I thought we'd ever get. By about Winter's Heart or so, I started to think Jordan had totally lost his way and we were never going to find a decent conclusion. And with his untimely death, I'd sort of given up any hope for a while. But Sanderson has come through in amazing fashion. I've re-read much of the series before, and have no doubt I'll be re-reading it again.

I feel like a widower leaving the cemetary after a soured marriage has ended with the death (by natural causes) of a bi-polar spouse. Last night on the Red Line I fnished 'The Wheel of Time.' The passionate book affair of my youth that grew stale, bitter and embarrassing before rekindling into acceptance, fondness, and nostalgia has ended. Thank the Light.

I agree wth Jim that it is better than I thought we were going to get.

I was impressed that characters did die, almost too many. While not ballsy enough to go all "Game of Thrones" and kill off principle characters when the story needed to go there (except with the glorious exit of Egwene, the character I most admired), neither was the Last Battle a gutless "Deathly Hallows" finale that only offed C-list players.

Some significant good things for me:
- Egwen al'Vere. In the end, she delivered and left the stage without needing an encore.
- Rand al'Thor. After passing through the Apotheosis stage of the Hero's Journey, Rand became likeable again, and I was again invested in his success.
- Androl and Pevara. Two of he C-listers whom Sanderson pushed to the fore charmed me with their sweet, funny, romantic discovery and acceptance of each other. And Androl's never-explained-yet-mysterious backstory kept my interest as well.
- Birgitte's final rescue of the useless Elayne Trakand. One shouldn't kill a warder out of Legend when the Horn of Valere is within sounding distance. Others apparently hated this turn of events, but I loved it.
- The gift of this unanswerable question that will linger and keep the story alive- How did Rand Al'Thor light his pipe in the epilogue? Sanderson himself has stated that he doesn't know the answer, only that Jordan wrote the event into the last chapter before he died.

The Disappointing:
- Demandred's secret identity was . . . Demandred. It was a lamer reveal than the Final 5 Cylons. I was hoping that Demandred would be someone like Talmanes or, even better and more painful, Tam al'Thor (which, I know, would have meant Demandred would have had to have escaped from Shayol Ghul at least 20 years before the other Forsaken).

The Bad:
- The Last Battle. The scion of good faces the heart of evil. Hot Channing-Tatum-as-Buddhist-Jesus-with-a-Sword against a blank, black wall that talks with its CAPS LOCK ON. What did we realy expect them to accomplish other than a long, repetitive, slightly disjointed and simple-minded contemplation of "What is evil?", "What is free will?" and the dumb resolution that humans can be good and have free will and live a happy, trolloc-free existence if we just lock the devil up in an unbreakable cage and forget he exists.
- Perrin. You shouldn't be married to Faile Bashere You should be living in Brooklyn and dating Karen Cartwright or Rachel Berry. Get over yourself.

- THOSE BASTARDS KILLED BELA!?!?!?

Wasn't thrilled with the ending, but the majority of the book was engrossing. My reading has slackened with my son's birth nearly 2 years ago, but this kept me awake late more than a few nights haha. I am confused by the Rand/Moridin swap, will read through again and maybe catch something I was sleeping through haha

David: You rock! I laughed out loud and agree 100%. I could not have said it better.

"Horn of Valere, we haven't seen you for, like, what? 11 thousand pages? Good to have you back. We all learned back in volume 2 that you are monogamous, and once blown, can't be blown by anyone else until the most recent hornsounder dies. Mat Cauthon blew you in 'The Great Hunt' and has "died" briefly once or twice since then. I don't know why it took another 8 thousand pages before anyone figured out that you were single again. I must say that your new hornsounder was, for me, perfect."

No one figured it out, because Mat was still alive, they thought that one had to actually be, well, dead..hehe, and stay dead. No one wanted to risk blowing it before perhaps or who knows.
As for the power at the end for Rand, it was the power of light or what not, when he puts the seals back so to say or closes the Dark Ones prison, he mixes saidin, saidar and the dar ones own one power and creates a new force/power, I reckon that's what he is using now, at the end. And no one beside him can do it, love it.

The Last Battle was dragging yet you can't seem to put it down and tuck it away for next time. If you haven't read the past books, then this will definitely be a difficult book for you.

Egwene's death was.. majestic and grandiose, which is really her through and through. Just like the battle in the White Tower against the Seanchan.

Bela's death was really unexpected. REALLY UNRXPECTED. Why, Harriett. WHY?!

Fain's 'battle' with Mat was ver short lived. We could have used a lot more action between those since Fain was there since book one.

All in all, it's a good, no, great ending to me.

Just finished it this week. Overall, not a great ending/series but a satisfying conclusion in my opinion. Lots of open ended stories for individual characters but the overarching plot was tied up pretty nicely. I really admire the pacing in the book, which kept me chugging through that 200 page chapter, although I have to admit a few long running plot threads were tied up a little fast (e.g. Padan Fain). This one put the finishing touches on redeeming Mat as a character for me. I wasn't totally happy with Moiraine's involvement, though; I guess I was expecting something bigger after her return. My review for more of what I thought.

Oh, can someone please tell me how Mat did the nifty "people didn't actually die" trick where the river was dammed? IIRC, that wasn't clearly explained. Or maybe it's been awhile since I read the others and don't remember that bit of magic.

Lindsey wrote: "Just finished it this week. Overall, not a great ending/series but a satisfying conclusion in my opinion. Lots of open ended stories for individual characters but the overarching plot was tied up..."

Their town was suffering from a bubble of evil. it's from one of the earlier books, possible knife of dreams or winters heart. at night they turn mad and kill each other but every morning they come back to life. Any visitor to that town who dies there is also stuck in the same cycle.

Chris wrote: "Their town was suffering from a bubble of evil."

I knew there had to be a in-world explanation and it's just been too long since I've read the others. I remember it now. Thank you!

Chris wrote: "Their town was suffering from a bubble of evil. it's from one of the earlier books, possible knife of dreams or winters heart. at night they turn mad and kill each other but every morning they come back to life. Any visitor to that town who dies there is also stuck in the same cycle."

The good villagers of Hinderstap. It's in The Gathering Storm.

I couldn't remember, they have all blended together for me.

Chris wrote: "I couldn't remember, they have all blended together for me."

I know the feeling! I only really remembered it because it was in one of the Sanderson books (which I hadn't read until I reread the whole thing before AMOL was released).

Unlike many of you, this has not been a 20 year relationship for me. I started the WoT books when this became the group read, having never read any of them before.

Excellent, fitting end to The Wheel of Time series. Complicated, with many characters and action on many fronts, with one of the longest and most complex battles I've read. Jordan/Sanderson managed to satisfactorily tie up most of the loose ends, leaving just enough to feed our imaginations.

Glad I slogged through some of the slower books in the middle of the series to get to this climax.

I did not expect Rand & Moridin to exchange bodies. I caught on after they were in the healing tent and the women linked to Rand were tending to other things.

Odds & ends: Glad that Logain renounced the lust for power based on fear, went to help rescue the children, broke the seals, and earned the accolades of a hero. With Rand out of the picture, he will lead the Black Tower in partnership (rocky as it may be) with the White Tower.

Egwene's death--she has been my favorite character throughout the series so I was sad that she died, although it fit the story well.

Moiraine--I think the fact that she was there at the end fit the "full circle" idea, and illustrated the depth of the change in Rand, that he trusted her so fully and recognized that he needed her.

I would say, besides Egwene, there were other somewhat significant deaths--Faile's parents and Gareth & Siuan come to mind.

Moghedien lives but captured by the Seanchan. Do any of the other Forsaken live? (I had a hard time keeping track of them, especially as they changed names and bodies.)

Did we ever find out the gender(s) of Elayne's twins?

If Gawyn had lived, wouldn't using the Death rings (whatever they were called) have killed him anyway? Could Egwene feel their effect on him? He was one of my least favorite characters...

I know Graendal is still alive but her compulsion backfired so now she's Aviendha's slave. Mesaana I think was still alive and completely brain dead. The rest are dead except for Moridin's body.

Didn't one of Min's visions say Aviendha was going to have Rand's children? I thought she mentioned it to the wise ones. She wasn't pregnant at the end but I guess she could still have them with his new body. For Elayne's babies I thought it was a boy and girl but I could be wrong there. It would make sense for the Andor tradition anyway.

Kathi wrote: "If Gawyn had lived, wouldn't using the Death rings (whatever they were called) have killed him anyway? "

I think so. I was worrying he was going to have some kind of hero's death because of his death ring powers, and I'm very glad that didn't happen. Gawyn, at least the Sanderson!Gawyn, annoyed the heck out of me, and I wasn't particularly sorry to see him go (same with Galad).

Evilynn wrote: "Gawyn, at least the Sanderson!Gawyn, annoyed the heck out of me, and I wasn't particularly sorry to see him go (same with Galad). "

Galad was, I think, true to the character that Jordan had created. Annoying, yes, as most ultra-righteous people are. I was pleased that he started to see the world as more than black & white near the end, which indicates the potential for growth. Can't imagine what a relationship with the First of Mayene will do to him!

Gawyn, though, seemed aimless for much of the story, defending the White Tower, then joining with Byrne's troops. His feelings for Egwene seemed true, and yet he just had to be the hero at the end--couldn't stand to stay in her shadow and her warder and partner. Not one of my favorites. And to never tell Egwene of the rings--seems almost like a betrayal to me.

Galad was, I think, true to the character that Jordan had created. Annoying, yes, as most ultra-righteous people are. I was pleased that he started to see the world as more than black & white near the end, which indicates the potential for growth. Can't imagine what a relationship with the First of Mayene will do to him!

Err. Oops. My memory is a bit broken, I thought he also died. *g* That was what my "same with Galad" comment was about. I think Galad was annoying through all the books, Jordan's included.

Gawyn started out sympathetic (if with a bit of a saviour complex) and had the strangest arc where he goes from loyal if misguided to angrier and angrier and more and more aimless as time goes by. Since he was born and raised to stand in Elayne's shadow, I really feel that the last three books in particular was out of character for him.

I've just finished it and really enjoyed it. Bella was totally unexpected, why indeed! Egwene, never a favourite died in such a good and useful way, I was impressed. Overall, I feel satisfied with the whole thing and I'm glad that I persevered with the hair tugging and dress discussing! Now, I need food.

Helen wrote: "I've just finished it and really enjoyed it. Bella was totally unexpected, why indeed! Egwene, never a favourite died in such a good and useful way, I was impressed. Overall, I feel satisfied with ..."

Huzzah! Congratulations!

I cried over Bella. Egwene, who really started to annoyo me, redeemed herself magnificently in the end.

Glad you stuck it out. :)

Me too, excellent series. Might not have done so if you hadn't chivied me along. Have also decided to read more Sanderson.

The only part of the ending I didn't like was how quickly Fain got handled. He seemed like a waste of a villain overall and should have played a bigger role.

I finally got around to finishing this a week or so ago. Overall I thought Sanderson did a great job in setting the series back on track and ending it.

I was disappointed that after 12000 pages of reading through these, there was only about a 10-15 page chapter post Last Battle. When I read the Table of Contents I figured that 200 page chapter titled "The Last Battle" that that would be it and we'd spend the next 100 pages seeing the aftermath. I found that chapter title very misleading...

Also agree with Evelyn's statement way up above regarding Moiraine's return. It was anticlimactic to say the least. It almost seemed like Sanderson knew he had to bring her back but then didn't have a cloue what to do with the character.

Ha, I beat someone!

Yes, Bela's death was sad, but how about Rhuarc! He had such strength and integrity and was instrumental in bringing the Aiel to Rand and keeping them there. I think that all other couples that we came to care about either died (Garth/Suian, Egwene/Gaywn, the Basheres) or lived (Rand/Min/Aviendha/Elayne, Perrin/Faile, Nynaeve/Lan, Moiraine/Thom, Galad/Berelain, Mat/Tuon). Amys is left, not to mention poor Dorindha, her sister-wife laboring away as roof mistress of Cold Rocks Hold in the Waste(not knowing what's going on?). I think Rhuarc's ignominious turning and death made me sadder than anything. He had much ji.

I gave up after book six, I think my husband made it to book nine. I really wanted to stay with it, but time constraints prevented me staying in for the long haul. I prefer a little more pace, but that doesn't take anything away from Robert Jordan's work. Great writing! I think now the series is finished, I will try again but it will have to wait until my retirement in about 20 years.

OK, here goes nothing! I don't usually write posts but with the Wheel of Time I feel I need to get some things off my chest, so apologies if this comment jumps between topics and seems a bit of a ramble!

Well it has been almost 5 months since I have finished A Memory of Light (AMOL) and still I keep mulling over certain things that happened throughout the series. Like a lot of fans I started reading the book when I was almost 14-16 years old. I started reading the books 2 or 3 times and always got a bit further before giving up and forgetting the plot, then Robert Jordan unfortunately passed away and I gave up completely for a while after that. Then at the age of 25 I found out the book had been finished. So with no Game of thrones books to read I thought to give the WOT one last shot and finally get some closure. Note; I feel If I had never started reading the WOT as a child I probably would not have picked up the books now later in life.

OK first off, with the start of the WOT with the prophecy being that The Dragon Reborn would return and cause a new breaking and safe the world but leave the whole place in ruins and on its knees. I thought at this point Rand is going to go through some serious physical and mental anguish before eventually saving the world. From the end of the books I just didn’t feel that happened for me. There wasn’t enough grit or death to explain Rand’s constant bad moods and feeling all sorry for himself. Ok he got upset because of how many Aiel Maidens he couldn’t save and tried to remember their names (I’m sure he kept a list somewhere) but really? I wanted to see him SUFFER!!!! I wanted to see the taint of Saidan really turn him crazy and make him do things that were pretty controversial and wrong morally, I think it would have gave the character a bit of depth. I wanted him to destroy the world from his madness but somehow crawl his way to last battle, destroyed physically and mentally, but able to confront the Dark One and somehow save the world. Ok he got put in a box for like a day, lost his hand from one of Forsaken, lost a couple of Aiel maidens and had this annoying voice in his head constantly asking him “when can we die?” But was their real pain? Was their real anguish? Not enough for me. His pain was nothing like some of the characters in a Game of Thrones need to go through. I wanted to see him lose his loved ones, I wanted him to destroy cities from his madness thinking of was the right thing to do. For example, when he is strangling Min through being controlled by Semirhage in A Gathering Storm, part of me wanted him to kill Min! I wanted to feel some real pity of emotion for Rand but no, he gets all colder and annoying from nothing really happening in the end. Again, when he is about to destroy the Seachan before realising that the people are happy under their rule and decides against it. NO! Do something crazy I thought! I waited for these moments throughout the book, nothing really came. I don’t understand why none of the forsaken thought to try and kill Rand’s loved ones, like the three girls he has on the go at once (just greedy really!) or even maybe his father or somebody!

Another thing that I didn’t like is I felt some characters didn’t act like a normal person would act in real life. For example, when Elayne finds out she is pregnant she doesn’t even seem to have any motherly feelings towards her unborn babies, she just seems to complain and moan about the whole child bearing thing. Where are the thoughts of, “I wonder what they will look like?” “What will I call them?” “Will it be hard for them growing up having the The Dragon Reborn as a father?” “How will I raise them potentially without him?” Nothing! Even Rand doesn’t seem to cares! Doesn’t even think to ask Elayne how his unborn babies are getting on! Not even talked about what they will call them etc. Also at the end of the book, Rand just decides to take off when he has the responsibilities of a father! That will be probably give him more pain and anguish than I felt he went through the whole Wheel of Time saga! And when he thinks at the end “Which one will follow him” you can bet your butt it will be Elayne! I can just see an Angry Elayne chasing the Rand around RandLand trying to get him to own up to his father responsibilities.

The last battle between Rand and The Dark One was a bit of a let down. I wonder if the way Brandon Sanderson wrote the battle was the way RJ wanted to written. It just didn’t seem to satisfy me with all the build up from the books. Good vs Evil, can we live in a world without evil sort of thing…not sure If I buy into it all. I do however like the ending with Rand surviving; I think killing him would have been maybe slightly predictable. I think overall Mr Sanderson did a wonderful job finishing the book, maybe even better than RJ would have done dare I say it…..

It was nice to get a feeling of overall closure on the whole series but I just felt like the potential from the first few books wasn’t met. There could have been so much more emotion and death and destruction that could have taking place, I just felt like the characters were just filling in the time before they had to go to the last battle. I didn’t feel any massive progress on any of the characters really after Book 6 I think. On a final note, the only time I felt real emotion for a character was Lan at the end. When he finally steps up to the plate to face Demandred at the last battle potentially knowing it will mean his death, even before the amazing sword fight took place I knew how it would end, with Lan “sheathing the sword” a move that he taught Rand from the start of the series, I almost cried with how epic this scene was!! But just when you think Lan has sacrificed himself to kill one of the forsaken I felt cheated when Lan actually doesn’t die. In a way I can see why RJ maybe did this, or maybe it was Sanderson’s idea, to let Lan live and carry on his duty to become Nyneave’s obedient and submissive husband. As the quote goes “Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather.”

I finally got around to this after putting it down some 15 years ago when I fell in love with the Wheel of Time in highschool. I was an avid Tolkien read and this was the first series where I stepped out of my favorite author.

Brandon Sanderson is an imaginative writer, though his prose is often lacking in many respects. I did enjoy the many battle scenes here and got a sense of the epic scale, but the ending had a lot of loose ends. I really felt that Moiraine’s story arc did not come to completion. We got the most satisfying conclusion with my favorite character from my youth, Lan, whose epic performance did not disappoint.

Rand’s ending was confusing and sort of unsatisfying. So he now occupies the body of a rather despicable and evil character? Imagine our hero after all these years now living inside a body that committed horrible acts of evil across the world we loved. I feel uncertain about how Rand’s three lovers would interact with such a body, despite knowing Rand exists inside it. I hate to sound like George RR Martin, but Rand should have died. It woild only make the most sense.