The Robin Hobb Collection discussion

And the fighting actually starts!
that's immediately a lot of action in one chapter, and raises a lot of questions.

what's the white ship? how come only he sees it? anything to do with the wit?
did he actually kill the white ships's deck master by pushing?

still don't get verity's insisting on keeping fitz' skill a secret. he's got so many skilled ones, surely it would make more sense to use fitz, and put serene and justin on other duty?

oh, and will molly end up getting pregnant?
surely so many nightly visits are going to leave a mark? i would think she's smarter than that though.

I think Verity is trying to protect Fitz by keeping things secret. It's also to his advantage. But I don't want to start a second debate about his motives. Lol.

Rob wrote: "But I don't want to start a second debate about his motives. Lol."

hèhèhè :))))

I dont know what the white ship means yet. I did wonder if Nonge saw it also or knew more than he was saying because he was so eager to keep Fitz quiet.

I disagree again about Verity trying to protect Fitz. He has told Fitz a couple of times in this book that he is not ready for people to know that he is using Fitz and he doesn't want others to know this secret. To me, that sounds like he's protecting himself.

I find it hard to believe that Molly and Fitz would spend all of this time together without some ramification also. Especially with all of the servants and Regal's spies, I think someone would see them. Maybe they have. I find it strange that Regal would give her earrings because he really likes her candles!

Hanne wrote: "Rob wrote: "But I don't want to start a second debate about his motives. Lol."

hèhèhè :))))"

I think it does involve some motive discussion when it comes to Verity. In this part it confirmed what we discussed last night and that is his physical deterioration due to his overuse of the skill and is that due to addiction and his care for the people of the Duchies? I would argue both. Which leads us to whether one believes his care of the Duchies excuses his behavior towards Fitz up to this time in the book? ( what we discussed last night and above)

That there is so much that can be discussed about Verity shows how thorough the characterization is on his character alone. However he has almost zero interaction with his wife , father, or brother or anyone except for Fitz. All because he cannot pull himself away from his skilling. He could not even take time to go out on one of his new boats. He used Fitz to do this. I understand why it is Kettricken who has finally said she will End this. Not only from loneliness. But Verity cant physically go on much longer like this. And if he did, can you imagine what Regal would get away with in the castle?

And yet can the six duchies survive if he stops using his skill to protect them?

Is it just his skill addiction that keeps him skilling constantly, neglecting all else as you mentioned? Or is it necessary?

I won't weigh in on my questions, as I know what happens.

i think this is one of the really nice things about Robin Hobb. she doesn't spoonfeed on character-related things (maybe a little on some of the rest with her chapter intro's right now, but not on characters).
and so we're all reading it slightly different and interpreting it slightly different.

i'm close to where Candace is it, but not fully there either. so not trying to persuade anyone, but i will to explain how i read verity's character at this point in the book


i like verity, he's very human, and his human character flaw to me is that he's an avoider. he doesn't act, he tries to ignore things and hope they will go away.
he did that with Regal after the attempted murder, he did with the hunt (and luckily Kettricken dealt with it), he does it with his dad who's in bad shape, and so on. plenty of examples by now.
verity lives on his own little island - he refuses to deal with actual people (with the one exception of fitz but i'll come to that)
he does do what he does to save the duchies, but all of that is a very solitary act, none of that is social, he's locked up in a tower. and yes, he is sacrificing a lot for that, his health and his youth for one thing.

now, because of his solitary character and all the danger out there, he's missing out on a lot of life. he's looking at things out there from his tower point of view, but not really seeing, feeling and living everything
and that's where fitz comes in. verity is living through fitz right now. but he's living that 'merged life' very safely from his tower, while fitz is in the thick of it.
i do believe verity has the intention for the duchies, but if you look at the actual acts, he's doing it in a selfish way - by keeping fitz all to himself so to speak and keep him hidden and completely unprotected.

officially he has serenity and justin on that boat, he does not necessarily need fitz there for the war in itself - he does that for himself, because he wants to be on that ship, and yet he can't/won't.
that justin wouldn't receive his message is besides the point on the intention, because he should have and fitz is known as a worse receiver than justin.

why let fitz go out to kill forged ones on his own? why not send burrich and two other trusted people with him. they know the forged ones seem to travel in small groups of 3-5 people, so fitz was always going to be outnumbered.

that's not for the good of the duchies
that's to give Verity a flash of adrenaline, make him feel alive, while he's not there at all.
and that to me, is selfish.
even if he doesn't do it purpose.


pfffeeewww, that's my longest post ever i think
but as i said, not trying to persuade, just trying to explain how i look at verity right now

I soo want to comment on the other skill users comments, but spoilers! Lol.

Rob wrote: "And yet can the six duchies survive if he stops using his skill to protect them?

Is it just his skill addiction that keeps him skilling constantly, neglecting all else as you mentioned? Or is it n..."
Was that addressed to me?
I never said neglecting all else. Ive said I believe its a combination of skill addiction and love for the Duchies. And Ive never wanted anyone to feel they couldnt say what they wanted on an issue unless its rude. If I thought it wasnt worthwhile to discuss, I wouldn't.

I was simply trying to prod some discussion, but it seems like I offended you somehow.

Neglecting all else is my phrasing/opinion but it was prompted by your second paragraph where you listed out a bunch of the stuff he's not doing because he's spending all his time skilling.

No, I wouldnt get that upset over Hobb. Im rather laid back.

Ok, my two cents worth, though I'm at a disadvantage because it's been a while since I've read the book.

I believe Verity feels he has to skill constantly to keep the Red ships at bay. And from what I remember he's fighting a losing battle. I also agree with Candace that he is addicted to skilling - that's a side effect of skilling - so motives can get grey.

I believe from memory that the idea of keeping Fitz a secret and viewing thing through his eyes was so he could get an honest view of what his soldiers and people in general were thinking. He wanted to know and see what people were saying and doing when they thought he couldn't hear or see them. If people knew Fitz could skill they would not be so open - they wouldn't say what they really thought around him knowing the king could be listening in.

Now Verity does put a lot of responsibility on Fitz - but is it too much? Possibly - but Fitz is up to a lot of it I think. He's trained for it. He is a lot more badass this book. But I think Hobb does a good job of pushing our emotional buttons when it comes to the way Fitz is used. She gets that tension by pushing the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable use of Fitz - so there probably isn't a definitive "right" answer. Which makes for some good discussion (and possibly fitz fights).

David Sven wrote: "and possibly fitz fights"

*groan*

fitz fights?
nice word play!

Hanne wrote: "fitz fights?
nice word play!"

You're just going to encourage him...

oops...typo?

But I don't want to start a second debate about his motives. Lol."

I won't weigh in on my questions as I know what happens.

Both of these were from you Rob, so I felt that if I discussed you would feel ok to discuss. I would normally not keep going but I wanted you to know that we like to hear your comments. I apologize. My husband tells me I'm the worst communicator. I would never intentionally "fitz fight" with you, Hanne, or David. Ill keep my options open as to others.

Those comments have nothing to do with anyone but myself.

I didn't want to simply repeat myself or accidentally spoil something, so I just posed some questions to prompt some more discussion without weighing in myself.

David's post sums up my views quite well anyways. He does a much better job posting than I do. Part of that is laziness on my part though. I mostly respond from my tablet and tend to make shorter posts as a result.

We find out how Regal probably knew about Fitz and Molly and therefore gave her the earrings. I love how Patience doesn't tell Fitz what to do in this situation. She just gave him the info on the herb and left Fitz to hopefully make the right decision.

I know what Fitz intends to do but Im still holding out on Verity allowing the marriage because I love Molly. Ooh, now that Verity's "arranged marriage" is working out better, you don't think he'd change his philosophy and promise to Fitz that one should marry for love?

Also I thought it was a little funny about the Revenge. Verity needed it and good things are coming from it. Verity has done a complete turnaround toward Kettricken and his belief of what it means to be a true sacrifice.

(ch19&20) burrich???
i have to admit that i did not see that one coming. i also thought patience was talking about chivalry when she gave the whole 'can't have two saddles on a horse' speech to fitz earlier in the book.
how sad was that revelation?

not sure how Hobb is using it though, to stress how similar a path to burrich fitz is taking right now. or as turning point for fitz?

time will tell!

Candace wrote: "We find out how Regal probably knew about Fitz and Molly and therefore gave her the earrings. I love how Patience doesn't tell Fitz what to do in this situation. She just gave him the info on the h..."

i don't think verity will change his mind on that. doesn't seem like him at all.

what I find strange about Verity using Fitz as a spy was, most of the people in buckeep know that fitz is verity's man so anyways they are having to have their guard up whenever they are speaking to him regarding verity.

Hanne wrote: "i think this is one of the really nice things about Robin Hobb. she doesn't spoonfeed on character-related things (maybe a little on some of the rest with her chapter intro's right now, but not on ..."

Ya as i said in my last chapter's post verity is a reactive person and a proactive one, also I think part of it comes from the fact he was the 2nd son and he was bred from the child hood itself to support chivalry and have no ambitions for throne for himself.

Hanne wrote: "And the fighting actually starts!
that's immediately a lot of action in one chapter, and raises a lot of questions.

what's the white ship? how come only he sees it? anything to do with the wit?
di..."

I think all the ship related answers will be in the trilogy liveship traders.

I can't see Regal wining favor by not sending aid to the victims of the Red Ship Raiders.

I'm at a loss to the last 4 messages from Melissa? I don't think this is related to the book?