The Not a Book Club Club discussion

Section 3

Please keep all discussion and speculation to the events of Chapter 20 - Chapter 29.

No spoiler tags required. Though it would be highly appreciated if you Uncheck Add to my Update Feed to avoid accidentally spoiling this for your good read friends.

Please do not discuss events from later chapters/books. Referring back to events from a previous section/book is fine.

Wow - so much is happening - aaargh! The meteor strikes remind me of my experience with 9/11 - seeing the plane hit the first tower and thinking it was a horrible accident....then seeing the plane hit the second tower and realizing it wasn't. And we discovered what the stealth paint was used for.

Oh yes - another good comparison. Wow so much going on this section! I'm tense!

Man. I'm so pissed off. Kudos to James SA Corey.

I get that Earth as a whole has been bad to belters, but the glee at which they are taking at mass genocide is just so infuriating. I just can't get my mind around it.

It's really hard. I'm a white male living in the US with a good paying job. I grew up without much money, but I never really was poor. I've never known was it was like to be oppressed.

I try to help out by donating to charity, but I know I could be doing more for the less fortunate. But that hardly makes me a bad person. But to these guys, I would be.

Reminds me a bit of the terrorists in Nexus too. Like there is no middle ground. Violence is the only answer.

And then of course contrast those guys with Amos. His solution to get out the jail cell is to punch at the problem until it's solved or he's dead, and somehow I love him for it.

I'm really loving Alex and Bobbie. Part of me wants them to hook up. And how HILARIOUS was Avasarala threatening the Martian Prime Minister over Bobbie. Man I miss those 2. If any of the crew die, or those 2 die I'm going to be pissed. Maybe Fred Johnson too, but I could manage without him. I'd rather not though.

I loved Naomi telling her son the blunt truth. And telling off Marco. I fear for her most of all right now. Especially with the plan she think's she's worked out of using her software to kill the Rocinate.

I'm a bit confused now though. She thinks the head engineer on Titan is one of Marco's people. I'm bad at names though. I remember Holden saying something about "If he checked the Roci over I don't trust it" when they caught someone. Was that him? For some reason I thought they wanted someone else. Someone "not involved" in the attack. It's times like this I wish I had a text to go back.

I'd look up what that message to Fred Johnson from the OPA ambassador/turncoat said and flip back to when Holden was making that comment to compare the names.

I will say, I was enjoying this book before, I'm REALLY enjoying it now. I think the only thing that would derail a 5 star rating is any of the deaths I mentioned earlier. That will likely just piss me off and cost them a star. So here's to hoping!

Rob yes it is the same engineer. Sakai I think. So Jim and Fred know that he's a traitor and are checking the structural work.

And yes the earth attack was brutal. As was the terrorist reaction. And the stunned reaction of others.....it all seems so sobering and realistic.

I'm really liking the focus on the troubles that have been simmering below the surface of all the alien troubles with the protomolecule in the previous novels.

There are a lot of parallels here. It sounded like some people were upset with the changes in this. I for one am loving them so far.

Oh, and thanks for the clarification on the engineer. If they knew he was a traitor though, why was Fred even considering handing him over to that other guy/the terrorists?

I THINK Fred was only considering it as a gesture of goodwill. I agree I'm liking the changes too. I'm really appreciating that nobody (main characters) does anything that is stupid - not to say people don't make mistakes, but they don't make stupid decisions for no reason. And I do like the focus on the political changes because of COURSE those dynamics would be in flux with all of the protomolecule stuff that has happened in the last books.

Rob wrote: "I'm really liking the focus on the troubles that have been simmering below the surface of all the alien troubles with the protomolecule in the previous novels"

Well, the OPA terrorists did steal Fred's safe, which contained the protomolecule sample. Though we don't know why yet. But, you're right, the politics of the solar system are definitely the forefront of this novel.

Yeah. Ive never had problems with Holden, but I've seen complaints about the stupidity of his actions not getting him killed. He does seem more compentant in this book though.

Yeah. Forgot about that. I really hope the protomolecule doesn't play into things later in the book.

I understand the terrorists being crazy about losing their way of life because of the Gates and the exodus, but what the hell is blowing all this stuff up supposed to accomplish?

Marco hasn't said anything yet and it's making me nuts. I hope he's got some kind of game plan, because "Hey, I fucked up your shit, now take me serious!" isn't going to get them any respect or pity - I can see Mars and Earth blowing up all the asteroids now that they aren't needed and then where will all the Belters go? They can't go to the planets.

It's a mess. I love these books - I'm so worked up!

I'm not sure if there is a goal to accomplish besides expressing hate. it's so sad and overwhelming!

Suzanne wrote: "Rob yes it is the same engineer. Sakai I think. So Jim and Fred know that he's a traitor and are checking the structural work."

That's not going to help them though as the problem is software.

I'm enjoying the book, but I have to say that the plot-convenient coincidences are killing me.

Naomi's ex is the mastermind of a 9-11 style plot of simultaneous attacks to multiple solar system targets. Ok.

Alex is at ground-zero for one of the attacks.

Amos is at ground-zero for another of the attacks (I'd buy this one, except this is the first time he's been on Earth in over a decade).

Holden is at ground-zero for yet another of the attacks.

Holden and Alex are investigating the main symptom that something's wrong before it all goes to crap and they're the only ones that get as far as sending a ship to investigate. I think the solar system has had a major attack of stupid if Holden is an intelligence operative. Avasarala at least predicted this sort of thing at the end of the last book. Given how breathtakingly competent she normally is, you'd think she'd have been all over it.

And finally, the timing of it all! The travel times between major solar system bodies in the Expanse are measured in weeks or months, but somehow Alex is in the right (wrong?) place within an hour of a critical period. Amos is on Earth for a handful of days and is about to leave it when the rocks fall. Aargh!

Meh. I think that's nitpicking. But everyone's different. I just really loved this book though, so that probably makes me blind to any flaws.

Lindsay wrote: "I'm enjoying the book, but I have to say that the plot-convenient coincidences are killing me.

I agree with there being a bit too much coincidence. But the alternative would have been to introduce a bunch of new POV characters to show us all the different aspects, and that can be hit or miss. So, I'll take this one with the crew getting their own screen time.

I guess I'm also used to Holden always being in the middle of the shit when it goes down anyway, and it's his "celebrity" status that gets Naomi snatched and Alex hooked up with Bobbie in the pinnace - his star power is also why Avarasala got mixed up with them and she's the one pulling a lot of the strings that are tangling them up I think.

I'm pretty sure that events were set-up so Naomi and Holden would be in the middle of things. True, there is a lot of coincidence for Alex and Amos, but I'm so glad that we got their POVs instead of new ones. I love how Naomi would channel Amos in a crises, and vice-versa.

Avasarala is the best - she's got some of the best dialogue in the book. With Amos a close second. I like how they kind of have a thing. "Chrissy"....hehe

I don't think it's coincidence that Alex got caught in the middle of it - Holden roped him in so it makes sense. Amos is a bit too coincidental but I'm on board. I don't like anything about Naomi's storyline at all. That all seems so out of the blue and convenient for the plot that Corey wanted to tell. I'm finding her chapters tedious to read. She's complete reactionary, understandably, but it's still frustrating.

Earth getting attacked like that is so upsetting. I'm infuriated with these OPA dudes. There is no punishment too harsh for what they've done. And I do blame Naomi a bit. She knew how evil Marco was and she should have told Fred what she knew about him and his crew. I loathe her son Filip. There is no redemption for what he did and if he does kill himself as Naomi predicts, it will be too kind of a death for him.

It's funny rereading the comments here after reading Babylon's Ashes.

People here were complaining the coincidental nature of having all the Roci crew in convenient places.

In Babylon there are like 15-20 POVs, many of them 1 offs, which prevents this sort of convenience issue, but then people feel too unattached to so many "one and done" characters.

Personally I was never bothered by the convenience of this book, or the introduction of essentially "camera characters" in Babylon's, but probably because I've become a huge fanboy and have loved he last two books so much.

I don't mind the convenience because the POVs are the Roci's crew. Otherwise I might be more bothered by it.

Dara wrote: "I don't mind the convenience because the POVs are the Roci's crew. Otherwise I might be more bothered by it."

That's probably why I didn't mind it either.

What is bothering me is the constant mentioning of Naomi's hair. All of a sudden she's always "looking through the curtain of hair" or "hiding behind her hair". Was this always a thing that I've forgotten or is this new?

I never noticed.