I Love My Humor Dark. No Sugar, No Cream discussion

Okay - let's try to get this forum back up and running!

As this is the style I tend to write in, I'm up for discovering more dark humour no matter who's writing it. If it's dark; I'm interested.

If you are a reader of dark humour then what attracts you to such books? If you use dark humour in your writing then why so?

Allow me to be the first to answer these two questions as to see if I can get the ball rolling. I've led a bit of a messy lifestyle up until I turned around 25 and then I cleaned myself up a bit. I read dark humorous books because they offer me something I can relate to from my own experiences. I enjoy all sorts of writing styles, but dark humour is rare and often comes from an interesting place.

I write dark humour for pretty much the same reasons. However, I also find it gives me the most creative freedom while being able to make some serious points about the world.

Thanks for starting this thread, Rupert.

I think an interesting initial question is how people define "dark humor." I assume it means different things to different people. Urban Dictionary defines it as: "Humor that is viewed as dark, morbid, cruel, offensive to some, and or graphic in nature and is yet, still found funny."

I think that's a pretty good, broad definition. Does it include "off-beat," "wacky" and "absurd" humor? Or does it have to truly have a dark element to it, such as being associated with violence or unpleasant or taboo subjects? I'm not sure.

As to why I have always been attracted to it, I suppose in part it comes from my broader like of all things out of the ordinary. I have always lived by Anais Nin's statement, "Ordinary life does not interest me." I suspect that is true of a lot of dark humor fans.

There may also be an element of "whistling past the graveyard" in the attraction to dark humor. My book, Psycho-Tropics, has two gruesome murder scenes. I don't really enjoy writing about murder per se, but had a helluva good time loading the scenes up with humor!

Yeah; I did initially write about the definition and then felt like I was talking about my own writing too much so thanks for that clarification!

I think the Urban Dictionary definition is a good starting point. Does it include off-beat, wacky and absurd? I'd say it depends on how it's portrayed! The darkness can certainly come from weirdness and absurdity rather than what's in the UD definition. For example think of a David Lynch movie such as Mulholland Drive; I wouldn't necessarily say it's dark, morbid, cruel or offensive per se, but the absurdity, weirdness and the eccentricity is what makes it dark.

I think in literature dark humour can be mostly found in transgressive fiction (Ellis, Welsh, Palahniuk), existentialist novels (Camus, Kafka) and the Gothic genre (Poe, McGrath, Edward Carey). There's also dark humour in literary stuff such as 1984. I'm pretty sure that beyond my comfort zone I'll be able to find some more authors, regardless of genre, which are right up my street hence why I joined this forum.

With regards to psycho tropics: I think violence can be made funny - especially in fiction. I'm looking forward to reading your book. It's third in line at the moment. I'm about to release a short story collection in the next month or so and it's got a number of violent scenes in it (one is particularly rotten), but they're all done in a dark humorous way. I'll get you a free copy, Dorian.

I'll see if I can get some people posting here!

Thanks, Rupert. Just bookmarked Spark and plan to download it next time I get out my Kindle.

I agree with all of that, which shows it has a broader meaning than perhaps a lot of people associate with it.

So social commentary on the absurdity of life (Camus, Joseph Heller) definitely qualifies.

In modern popular fiction, I think Carl Hiaasen and even Maria Semple's Where'd You Go, Bernadette? qualify, even though neither is particularly "dark."

I've been meaning to read Heller for ages. I also originally wrote about cynical satire often being very dark but I couldn't think of many literary examples.

I'll check Hiaasen. Any good starting places?

Ok I am here as commanded. Alas I don't find anything funny though.

I do find social commentary funny. Currently reading The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark at work and some of his comments on just how absurd people are has me laughing.

About to start this, Rubberman's Cage the comments at the beginning explaining that humour will be spelt with "our" instead of "or" is giving me high hopes for some dark humour.

You're reading Carl Sagan! That book changed my life. I am most definitely a Saganist these days.

You raise a good point: dark humour can also show up in non-fiction effectively. Charlie Brooker, a British satirist and journalist, uses this technique quite a lot to illustrate some things about the human condition (a highbrow term for how we're all idiots bumbling around a meaningless wasteland). I recommend his collections of essays to anyone who hasn't read them. Out of everyone; he's the person I try to rip off the most. Love cynicism - especially when it's ultimately coming from a good place.

Oh, and nice dig at American humour there!

Jason wrote: "Ok I am here as commanded. Alas I don't find anything funny though.

I do find social commentary funny. Currently reading The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark at w..."

I've added The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark to my to-read list Jason.

Rupert wrote: "You're reading Carl Sagan! That book changed my life. I am most definitely a Saganist these days.

You raise a good point: dark humour can also show up in non-fiction effectively. [author:Charlie ..."

I'll check out some of Charlie Brooker's essays Rupert. Cynicism is wonderful, at least I think so.

Charlie broker did the TV series black mirror didn't he? Now that is dark, very good series.

Hi Rupert, Dorian and all else on this post. I am responding to this thread in earnest, which is quite worrisome, because I am infected with a virulent strain of ironic detachment.

I've been at battle with dark humor for many years, because no matter how much I love it, the form often leaves me questioning whether it's written in the name of narcissistic rage or compassion for mankind. Any thoughts on this matter?

I guess my first real taste of dark comedy in literary form would have come from "A Confederacy of Dunces." Other than that: Monty Python and Terry Gilliam movies.

If anybody thinks they have something I may enjoy based on my previous mentions, fill me in. Always looking for new stuff that grabs my imagination.

I think Haunted counts, social commentary taken to the extreme and a dark comedy.

Guy wrote: "Cynicism is wonderful, at least I think so."

Me, too. Another good example of cynicism in dark humour is the stand up comedian Doug Stanhope. He's brutally cynical and dark. One minute he's talking about having sex with twins joined at the head; the next he's slagging off bigots. For me it works because he's a good guy.

Mark wrote: "I've been at battle with dark humor for many years, because no matter how much I love it, the form often leaves me questioning whether it's written in the name of narcissistic rage or compassion for mankind. Any thoughts on this matter? "

Hi Mark. I think it depends on the context and how much a writer/ comedian/ journalist resonates with your own worldview. That's how I gauge it anyway. It's also possible that both narcissistic rage and compassion for mankind apply at the same time. We're all walking, talking contradictions. Russell Brand is a model example of somebody who is both narcissistic and compassionate. I think most of us prefer to see the latter although I can occasionally appreciate a more nihilistic humour at times.

As for recommendations: I like Monty Python and Terry Gilliam movies, but I'm struggling to think of a literary equivalent as they're too unique. However, I've done a book comparison with you and what we've read, our star ratings are quite close. Based on this you may like Observatory Mansions by Edward Carey and maybe The Grotesque by Patrick McGrath. They're first-person unreliable narrator stories which would fall in to the 'new Gothic' genre. The dark humour is very subtle.

Jason wrote: "Charlie broker did the TV series black mirror didn't he? Now that is dark, very good series."

He did, Jason. The last Christmas special was fantastic. Some of the more meaningful dark humour out there...

Rupert - Carl Hiaasen is a well-known American writer who started as an investigative newspaper reporter with the Miami Herald. He's published about a dozen hilarious, wacky adult fiction books, all set in South Florida, with protagonists often battling developers ravaging the environment. You can't go wrong with any of his books. His latest, Bad Monkey, is hilarious. (Be sure not to confuse with his children's books, which have also been very popular.)

Mark - If you liked A Confederacy of Dunces, you must read, if you haven't already, Catch-22, by Joseph Heller. It is my fav dark humor book of all time!

Dorian

I'll add Bad Monkey now.

I'll that one too and give him a go.

He's definitely worth checking out!

We took the "u" out of humour because for us it is all about "me." ;)

Rupert wrote: "Mark wrote: "I've been at battle with dark humor for many years, because no matter how much I love it, the form often leaves me questioning whether it's written in the name of narcissistic rage or ..."
Thanks so much Rupert, I am going to look into those books you suggested. I always appreciate when somebody takes the time to help another. Yes, I can see what you mean about Russell Brand... and we all have contradictions is right. Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble when it comes to my appreciation of the offbeat and cynical... so thanks for setting up this thread; it's nice to know there is a community of mad hatters to talk shop with.

Dorian wrote: "Rupert - Carl Hiaasen is a well-known American writer who started as an investigative newspaper reporter with the Miami Herald. He's published about a dozen hilarious, wacky adult fiction books, a..."

Thanks Dorian. I have yet to read Catch 22, yet I use the phrase here and there. It's like people who say that's like Big Brother or 1984 without reading the book. For this reason, I should stop putting it off and plunge into the novel soon. I also have read snippets of Hiaasen and look forward to Bad Monkey. One of my all time favorite satirist/dark humor writers is Mikhail Bulgakov and I just picked up A Dead Man's Memoir, so after that, I have plenty reading to do.

Mark wrote: "Rupert wrote: "Mark wrote: "Thanks so much Rupert"

Pleasure!

Mark wrote: "Rupert wrote: "Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble when it comes to my appreciation of the offbeat and cynical."

I think the other thing to note is that dark humour offers us an alternative. Let's face it: all of the creative arts are dominated by a mainstream. However, the mainstream doesn't appeal to everyone or people need a break from it. Dark humour offers some of us this alternative in literature.

Satire offers some temporary relief from this pathetic age of sterile, political correctness, but be careful!

You might awaken the media's PC police and they will hunt you down with a vengeance.

As requested...Dark humor.

Confederate Chipmunks & Carny Cooter
I'll send a free copy to a few weirdos like myself, in exchange for an Amazon and Goodreads review.

Currently reading consecrate chipmunks, very funny so far.

I see you've re-titled it. lol

That would be my auto correct. Microsoft must not like the confederates.

Wow. Time flies. It's officially Oct. 31. So what's the word on the new forum and possible anthology of dark humor? I've got mine ready to go if others are ready...

Hey Mark, I have finished a story but I don't think a project is going to happen now so I'm releasing it in early December instead. I'm about to send you a friend request so we can keep in touch.

As for a new forum... there just doesn't seem to be the thirst for it. I'm setting up a new indie author forum with a friend in you're interested in that?

Speak soon!

Hi Rupert - Keep us posted on your new indie-author forum project. That's one I'd like to join! Dorian

Will do, Dorian. It's with Lori, better known as Lady Catfood. I'll send you an invite just as soon as it's up.

Is Lori a writer then? Not just a cat-litter connoisseur.

Jason wrote: "Is Lori a writer then? Not just a cat-litter connoisseur."

Yeah. I think she's working on something for next year.

That explains why she asked me to email her 40000 words last week.

Mujer gatacomida! You are disgusting! ;-)

As for dark humour: it's just me I think. Only joshing. Have you read any Irvine Welsh?

Check your emails!

Lady Catfood wrote: "Hey hey, Lady of Catfoodshire is here!

Jason, that 40000 words will be used for my debut adult film screen play: "Honeymoon on Uranus.""

Can't wait for its release.... seriously... shall I send more words to speed things up?

Wait a minute... if it's a mucky screenplay then at 40,000 words it's going to be about two months' long.

Someone will need stamina then.

Rupert wrote: "Wait a minute... if it's a mucky screenplay then at 40,000 words it's going to be about two months' long."

Most of the words at oooh and moustache.

Mike wrote: "Someone will need stamina then."

Quip of the year!!!!!!! :-)

Looks like you're managing to wake this forum up again, Rupert. Way to go.

Okay then Rupert. So my demented short about an upstart journalist who gets a chance to interview a reclusive literary icon, only to fail due to his addiction to soda, whiskey and greasy burgers will go out for a round of submissions to equally demented literary journals. I do have an interest in your new forum. Let me know how to find you there.

Rupert wrote: "Hey Mark, I have finished a story but I don't think a project is going to happen now so I'm releasing it in early December instead. I'm about to send you a friend request so we can keep in touch.

..."

Mark wrote: "Wow. Time flies. It's officially Oct. 31. So what's the word on the new forum and possible anthology of dark humor? I've got mine ready to go if others are ready..."

Sounds great!

We can wait to see if other people are still interested, but I'm getting the feeling it's no longer going to happen so I'm putting mine out early December now.

Irvine Welsh, huh? Adding that to my list.

My favorite dark humorist is probably Kingsley Amis, but that's likely not a new name for anyone here.

Same era, but less remembered: Nancy Mitford. This one's particularly funny: The Blessing

Just added The Blessing. I've always wanted to read some Kingsley Amis. I'll have to add some next year.

Rupert wrote: "Just added The Blessing. I've always wanted to read some Kingsley Amis. I'll have to add some next year."

Lucky Jim is pretty spectacular--I'd start there!

I'll add it now. Thanks!

Start with Train Spotting with Irvine Welsh; it's his debut and most famous :-)

Oh, of course I've heard of that--just didn't know the author! Thanks, I will!

ooooooh lets have a race.