Tournament of Books discussion

If you had to choose the first half the books for the next TOB today, from books published in the first half of the year, which 8 books would you choose?

I don't have 8 because I've been reading a lot of backlist but here are 4 that I consider Tournament worthy.
A Little Life
Our Souls at Night
Disclaimer
The Fair Fight

Janet wrote:
"Disclaimer
The Fair Fight "

Thanks Janet! I hadn't even heard of these two.

To add to your own TBR pile in return: I'm reading a 2015 book right now that I think you might like very much: Life #6 by Diana Wagman.

Poingu wrote: "If you had to choose the first half the books for the next TOB today, from books published in the first half of the year, which 8 books would you choose?"

do you have 8 choices, poingu? i am looking over my lists, trying to decide which books i think will make the ToB longlist.

so far, i am thinking:

* A Little Life
* Sweetland
* City on Fire (944 pages, though?)
* Outline
* Where Did You Sleep Last Night (no idea if it qualifies, re: US release?)
* Delicious Foods
* After Birth
* The First Bad Man

but it's hard to choose and, really, i have no idea! :)

other considerations:

* Medicine Walk
* Us Conductors
* The Sellout
* Welcome to Braggsville: A Novel
* The Buried Giant
* Hausfrau
* Fifteen Dogs
* The Fishermen

Jennifer wrote: "do you have 8 choices, poingu?"

Wow, this is a much tougher question than I thought.

Here are the books that I would pick at the half-year mark, as much because I would like to see them paired up and competing together, as that they felt unique and wonderful on their own to me:

1. Preparation for the Next Life
2. The Sellout
3. Fifteen Dogs
4. Gutshot: Stories
5. After Birth
6. Satin Island
7. Mislaid (oops! hated it in the end)
7. The Sympathizer
8. Welcome to Braggsville

I have been pretty underwhelmed with my few 2014 reads thus far -- which, of course, doesn't preclude them from being in ToB, but still can't or wouldn't muster up much enthusiasm for 'God Help The Child' - 'Outline' - 'The Sympathizer'.

My best/favorite 2014 release so far is 'After Birth' but my gut is saying it's not a ToB-er.

As far as books on my ToB radar, feels like 'A Little Life' is pretty sure thing and I don't see how the competition can or will ignore 'Go Set A Watchman'

Other first half of 2015 releases on my ToB TBR cyber-pile: 'Loving Day' 'Welcome to Braggsville' 'Delicious Foods' and 'The Sellout'

Ed wrote: "I have been pretty underwhelmed with my few 2014 reads thus far -- which, of course, doesn't preclude them from being in ToB, but still can't or wouldn't muster up much enthusiasm for 'God Help..."

ed, ME TOO! oh, man. i have been so underwhelmed with my reading this year too, for the most part. and i have gotten quite bummed over it all. when i made my guesses, they weren't based on my own tastes, just the ones i thought would be likely inclusions.

i am so on the fence about Go Set a Watchman - what if it's terrible?

Poingu wrote: "Wow, this is a much tougher question than I thought..."

right? :)
thanks for your guesses! i am still so happy André Alexis' book was such a great read for you.

Ed wrote: "I have been pretty underwhelmed with my few 2014 reads thus far..."

I feel the same way about After Birth--great book, no chance of anyone noticing it--but it's cool to me that three of us posting here that we think it's an amazing book. It knocked my socks off.

A Little Life, I agree, seems like one of the most likely TOB picks of the first half-year.

I would bet on The Sympathizer as well, if only because, after decades of novels from the pov of US veterans, here comes something very new about Viet Nam and its aftermath.

Jennifer wrote: "ME TOO! oh, man. i have been so underwhelmed with my reading this year too, for the most part. and i have gotten quite bummed over it all. when i made my guesses, they weren't based on my own tastes, just the ones i thought would be likely inclusions."

Did you feel that way last year too? Did something stand out for you at this point in 2014 that ended up on the TOB longlist or shortlist?

I have to say I've read some real skunks this year that were on the list of most anticipated reads shared by TOB hosts in the last post of this year's tournament. But I really did enjoy the 8 books I listed a lot.

hmm... i was actually underwhelmed by the 2015 ToB choices, and didn't get as invested in the tournament this year - save for elena ferrante (which i did not read until jan, 2015 and just loved so hard) and anthony doerr (which i also read at the beginning of this year and really, really liked).

i think i had more surprise over exclusions, than excitement over inclusions. i was so disappointed All My Puny Sorrows (read in march, 2014) did not make the tournament - or even the really long list they put out last december. i was also surprised The Lowland wasn't in there this year too.

it's great you have found some gems this year. i have a lot of hope for the 4th ferrante novel this fall - The Story of the Lost Child: The fourth and final Neapolitan novel.. it's probably my most anticipate book for 2015.

Jennifer wrote: "i think i had more surprise over exclusions, than excitement over inclusions. i was so disappointed All My Puny Sorrows (read in march, 2014) did not make the tournament - or even the really long list they put out last december."

This might be false hope, but All My Puny Sorrows was only released in November 2014 in the U.S. so it still might qualify for next year's TOB. By the same token we might still see How to Be Both, published in December in the U.S., and I'm still crossing fingers as well for the completely overlooked published-last-November Preparation for the Next Life.

poingu -- i do have that faint glimmer of hope going on for AMPS but, mostly, i feel like it won't be included for 2016 either. i am glad they (ToB personnel) addressed the qualification periods in the discussion this year. it does feel like there is a window of missed books each year, even though they say the late november and december books are considered.

I too would like to see Preparation for the Next Lifein the tournament. I think it's a pretty unique story and would stir a lot of discussion.

Preparation for the Next Life was just stunning. If the timing works, it's just got to be a contender.

Poingu wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "i think i had more surprise over exclusions, than excitement over inclusions. i was so disappointed All My Puny Sorrows (read in march, 2014) did not make the tournament - or even ..."

Jennifer wrote: "poingu -- i do have that faint glimmer of hope going on for AMPS but, mostly, i feel like it won't be included for 2016 either. i am glad they (ToB personnel) addressed the qualification periods ..."

Jennifer, I looked at your read in 2015 list thinking maybe I could recommend something you would like more, and saw that you did like Saint Maizie but didn't put it on your TOB list above. Maybe you are thinking it was too enjoyable to be TOB worthy? If so I know the feeling. I frequently wonder about it the way there are so many books that I have loved reading this year but that I think they are almost too delightfully unchallenging for anyone to ever consider them prize-worthy. I worry about Fifteen Dogs being in that category--it isn't at all "slight" but people might think so since it is after all a story about dogs.

2015 books that I'm really glad to have read but don't think have a chance in hell of being in TOB are Aquarium by David Vann, Mort e by Robert Repino, Life #6 by Diana Wagman, Disgruntled by Asali Solomon...and I guess I have to say that I think 6 of the 8 of my picks above also don't have a chance of being considered worthy, and that I left Sweetland off because I also feel it will be neglected by a team of judges that seem to go for more flash and experimentation, whenever they do drift from the usual suspects, like Doerr's book last year.

Poingu wrote: "Jennifer, I looked at your read in 2015 list thinking maybe I could recommend something you would like more, and saw that you did like Saint Maizie but didn't put it on your TOB list above. Maybe you are thinking it was too enjoyable to be TOB worthy?"

thanks, poingu. :) i did really enjoy Saint Mazie a lot. but as much as i did, it doesn't strike me as a tournament book. i would love to be wrong on this one, because i think it deals with some issues that are timely today. but 'delightfully unchallenging' is maybe how i am feeling about it in regards to the ToB, as i also feel they seem to be going for edgier &/or more experimental and challenging books, for the most part. (which is why i think Delicious Foods might have a good chance - (view spoiler)[ crack as a narrator!?! heh! but it's hard to imagine that against the more traditional 'mazie', even though the issue of homelessness presents in both. (hide spoiler)] )

I'm almost finished with Delicious Foods (so I didn't read your spoiler Jennifer) but I agree that it is edgy. This is the kind of book that you can't say you "like" but is so out of the ordinary that it's a joy to read.

I haven't had a five-star 2015 litfic read yet. :/ Though I have high hopes for Ferrante's final Neapolitan novel, too, and I've been saving both Loving Day and The Green Road for a rainy day. Here's my dream team from the first half of the year:

The Sellout
How to Be Both (if the US publication date qualifies it!)
The Distant Marvels (Italian publication last year, English/US pub this year)
The Fair Fight (US pub this year, and I'm glad to see you liked it too, Janet!)

The Lie Tree (if there's a token YA pick, I hope it's this gem)
Disgruntled
The Abduction of Smith and Smith: A Novel
Get in Trouble

I think The Sellout (and possibly HTTB, but even if it does qualify, it'll feel like old news by March 2016) is the only one that stands a chance of being on the actual shortlist.

Definitely moving Delicious Foods up my TBR list thanks to this thread, though.

Janet wrote: "I'm almost finished with Delicious Foods (so I didn't read your spoiler Jennifer) but I agree that it is edgy. This is the kind of book that you can't say you "like" but is so out ..."

i had the same experience with The Country of Ice Cream Star, by Sandra Newman - i thought it was a very creative and bold story, and newman impressed me. but i can't say i liked the read.

I only have four:

Mr Mac and Me, by Esther Freud
Early Warning, by Jane Smiley
Sweetland, by Michael Crummey
A God in Ruins, by Kate Atkinson

I read the Smiley, Crummey and Atkinson in a blissful three-week period in May. These three brought my reading to a virual stop, because nothing I've looked at since can hold a candle.

Smiley just keeps on comin'. Can't wait for the third. Kate Atkinson proves once again that she walks on water. Within the first few pages, I was better able to articulate just why I didn't finish the Doerr book. And Sweetland. Sweetland. I can't stop thinking about this book, three months later. If Sweeetland doesn't make 2016 TOB short-list, I may have to wash my hands of it.

(Enjoyed, but didn't feel swept away by: Saint Mazie, A Spool of Blue Thread, Our Souls at Night, The Love Song of Miss Queenie Hennessy, The Children's Crusade.)

(I'm still bitter about AMPS falling through the cracks. Let's start a write-in campaign, begging publishers to avoid bringing out books in mid-November-December, especially if they're any damn good.)

Jennifer wrote: "ME TOO! oh, man. i have been so underwhelmed with my reading this year too, for the most part. and i have gotten quite bummed over it all. when i made my guesses, they weren't base..."

Ok, I totally need to do a take-back...after being intrigued and delighted by the first bits of Mislaid I ended up disdaining it rather a lot. way too clever for its own good.

Poingu wrote: "Ok, I totally need to do a take-back...after being intrigued and delighted by the first bits of Mislaid I ended up disdaining it rather a lot. way too clever for its own good."

i noticed your review this morning, and it entertained me. i have also be sifting through my mind since reading your review because in the past year, or so, i also read a book i describe as 'flippant', and it grated so much and made me rather cranky. i wish we could search our reviews for phrases. :)

Jennifer wrote: "i noticed your review this morning, and it entertained me."

Thanks for allowing me to be completely contradictory. I think it's hard to write satire without it becoming meaninglessly detached from humanity, which is what happened here eventually.

After reading Mislaid I felt the need to read an antidote, and I reached immediately for David Malouf, who always writes beautiful, sincere, humane prose. I recommend Ransom or An Imaginary Life or Remembering Babylon if you ever need a short novel to clean the palate of a too-flippant read.

Poingu wrote: "Thanks for allowing me to be completely contradictory. I think it's hard to write satire without it becoming meaningles..."

yes. sometimes books with tones like this start out promising, but it's tough to sustain over an entire novel without alienating readers. thanks for the malouf suggestions. i have 'remembering babylon' on one of my shelves. :)

this is getting a bit tangential... but since it keeps coming up, i have a question for those who read 'all my puny sorrows.' i LOVED it, recommended it to a friend who generally has really similar taste in books, and she didn't like it at all, saying that she didn't feel drawn in by the characters or plot, and didn't care what happened or what the narrator had to say. my hypothesis is that the book really spoke to me particularly because i have experienced the terminal illness of a close family member, and it did such an amazing job of highlighting the simultaneous weight and absurdity--even a strange hilarity--of dealing with the mortality of loved ones, whereas my friend has not, and perhaps couldn't appreciate that toews, in my opinion, hits that right on the head, bringing on the simultaneous laughter/tears and making me think "SO TRUE!!!!" throughout my reading experience. thoughts? do you think your positive experience with this book drew from similar/related experiences in your life, and do you think that might be necessary to appreciate its magic?

emily, for me, i found All My Puny Sorrows so full of heart, pain and humour. i could relate to the book for many reasons, as well as having huge interest in being able to have more control/choice at the end of one's life. (this is a timely issue in canada right now as right to die ruling came down (in favour) from our supreme court. though now comes the figuring it out, federally.) i have had the chance to meet toews a few times and she is so smart and funny, and i feel like i understand her a little bit as a writer. so i could hear her voice as i was reading, which added to it for me. though i don't know if personal experience is necessary to really appreciate the novel. i mean, part of the role of fiction is to open up ideas and worlds which maybe unknown to a reader. while i have mostly only heard excellent responses from the people i know who have read it, i would offer that the the couple of criticisms i have heard were the same - the subject was too dark/something they didn't want to think about. so in these instances, the readers shut themselves off from the topic and then judged the book bad/unenjoyable. (not sure if i am explaining this well, so i hope it makes some sense.)

emily wrote: "this is getting a bit tangential... but since it keeps coming up, i have a question for those who read 'all my puny sorrows.'....do you think your positive experience with this book drew from similar/related experiences in your life, and do you think that might be necessary to appreciate its magic?"

Emily, thank you for posing these questions. I don't participate in very many of these kind of discussions, and since AMPS did not make TOB last year (damn it, damn it, damn it), I haven't had a platform to discuss this book I love so much!

I have *lots* to say in response to your questions posed and Jennifer's reply, but before I do, would the rest of the participants in this "If I were to choose 8 books..." post like us to go elsewhere?

Attention, TOB group moderators: Maybe we should start a new discussion thread called "Should'a Been a Contender". In addition to All My Puny Sorrows, I'd nominate 10:04 and Fourth of July Creek

(I'll wait for some feedback; in the meantime, I have a few words to say about Nell Zink.)

I started the thread and while I don't think that gives me special powers to decide what belongs here, I do think the more tangents the better, or actually, I think that talking about AMPS doesn't qualify as a tangent--it's exactly relevant to a discussion about what belongs in next year's TOB.

I'm also interested in this nascent idea that's poking out here and there on this thread, that people including me are not necessarily enjoying the books that we think are likely TOB contenders...and alternatively we're thinking books we did enjoy will probably not be picked. That's a little unsettling to me, this idea that a book has to be a chore on some level to be considered award worthy (?)...

Poingu wrote: "Ok, I totally need to do a take-back...after being intrigued and delighted by the first bits of Mislaid I ended up disdaining it rather a lot. way too clever for its own good..."

I have absolutely no right to be talking about Nell Zink. I've read a total of ten pages of her work.

However, I can't help myself from commenting: Please. Make her go away.

I was first drawn to her through early, pre-publication notices of "The Wallcreeper".... Franzen protege. Bird lover. Feminist. Maybe she'll fill the gap until Jennifer Egan comes back.

I put down "The Wallcreeper" after exactly ten pages. I was later pulled backed into the hype and added "Mislaid" to the wishlist prior to its publication. I've since removed it.

Flippant, indeed. Arch. Condescending. Smug. (Aging) Hipster. Too many books to read to spend time with the likes of Zink.

I can't remember a time I've had such a strong, negative reaction to a writer I haven't even read. My biggest fear is that Zink's trajectory will soon crash and burn, and that the ashes will be laid at the feet of Franzen. I like Franzen, I really do. I look forward to Purity and all the noise it will generate. I just hope he isn't held responsible for Zink, in addition to all his other crimes.

emily wrote: "do you think your positive experience with All My Puny Sorrows drew from similar/related experiences in your life, and do you think that might be necessary to appreciate its magic?"

Jennifer wrote: "...readers shut themselves off from the topic and then judged the book bad/unenjoyable."

In response to your question, Emily, I have to say "I hope not." I expect many people don't want to - or can't - face a book like AMPS because it is just too hard, and I accept that, but it is impossible for me to believe people might read it and be unmoved by it (with all due respect to your friend.)

I had to brace myself to read AMPS. I too share many related experiences with Toews, in different combinations but equally as intense. I'm not one to shy away from tough, emotional reads, but I really did wonder, before reading AMPS, if I might just fall off the cliff with a book like this.

Went into it armed, though: I had read numerous articles about Toews and the book and the autobiographical nature of the fiction. And I read her Swing Low: A Life, which was so-o-o-o sad but so-o-o-o tender. So I trusted Toews to get it right in AMPS, and boy did she.

She is pitch-perfect, as you say, in pairing the brutality with the compassion, the stark realities of the situation with the absurdities. She never exploits the story, nor side-steps uncomfortable aspects, such as some of her own frailities. This is a remarkably HONEST book, and she is one damn courageous woman, one damn courageous writer. I came away loving her, her sister, her father, and maybe most of all, her mother.

I look forward to whatever she does next, and plan to go back to her previous fiction, starting with Irma Voth.

Damn. Wanted to weigh in on poingu's "...idea that a book has to be a chore on some level to be considered award worthy (?)" , but I have to go to work. See you all back here in 12 hours.

Attention, TOB group moderators: Maybe we should start a new discussion thread called "Should'a Been a Contender". In addition to All My Puny Sorrows, I'd nominate 10:04 and Fourth of July Creek

Fourth of July Creek was such an intense and pleasurable read! I was totally shocked it didn't make the TOB.

Lljones wrote: "I put down "The Wallcreeper" after exactly ten pages. I was later pulled backed into the hype and added "Mislaid" to the wishlist prior to its publication. I've since removed it.
"

When I have this much negative feeling about a book or author I try to figure out why. Whether I judge the author to be sincere-- to have written with conviction about something they care about-- seems to be a very strong criterion for "goodness" to me. If I think the author has a sincere purpose, I can appreciate a book even when I don't like it--A Little Life is in that category of this year's contenders for me.

I don't feel any conviction behind Nell Zink's writing. It might be there but I'm not hearing it. I feel instead that she is toying with me. The final straw was when Zink puts a stream of thoughts in her "Mislaid" protagonist's head, where the character pauses to explain at length that she is a highly unsympathetic character, and that's just the way it is. Before then I was not feeling alienated from the novel or the character. But after reading that bit, my assumptions about the book fell apart. Every sentence felt to me as if the author was assuming I was a naive reader, and that she was taunting me for it, or trying to teach me a lesson. That's too self-absorbed a joke for me to appreciate. I no longer trusted that she was interested in a dialog with me as a reader.

Poingu wrote: "I'm also interested in this nascent idea that's poking out here and there on this thread, that people including me are not necessarily enjoying the books that we think are likely TOB contenders...and alternatively we're thinking books we did enjoy will probably not be picked. That's a little unsettling to me, this idea that a book has to be a chore on some level to be considered award worthy (?)... "

For me, I think it's that the books on the TOB shortlist that I end up loving the most tend to be the least predictable ones, the not-blockbusters, and while there are always a handful of those on the shortlist, they're difficult to predict, at least from my corner of the literary world. This year, it was Wittgenstein, Jr., which I wouldn't have heard of had it not been in the TOB, because that's still the only context I've stumbled across any talk of it! The year before, I was so thrilled to see Long Division (hearts hearts hearts I love that book so much) make the longlist (and then the shortlist) because I didn't think it had gotten enough attention to even make the TOB's notice.

The books I think are easier to assume are TOB-worthy are ones that get a lot of attention but don't seem to my taste (I mean, not to keep picking on Mislaid, but...!), so I think that's where some of my own grumbling about likeliness and unlikeliness comes from. Personal taste.

I know there'll be something on the TOB shortlist I'll love, but I haven't found it myself yet. The joy of the TOB, for me, comes from the diverse range of the shortlist and the gleeful pitting of books against each other and the peek into how other readers evaluate and the way they love what they love reading. And that'll get started in January, I'm sure. Right now, it's just me waffling over whether I should get myself on the holds list at the library for the more popular books. (And whispering to the book gods, "Please, please, don't put both Franzen and Zink in the TOB next year. I don't think I could take it.")

Lljones wrote: "I came away loving her, her sister, her father, and maybe most of all, her mother. "

so much YES! to this, Lljones. :)
toews' and her mother live together at their home in toronto. her mum is adorable, strong and funny! (she was at an event with her daughter and was delightful.)

Lljones wrote: "I just hope he isn't held responsible for Zink, in addition to all his other crimes."

this made me laugh so much, i nearly choked on my tea! :)

Jennifer wrote: "i have had the chance to meet toews a few times and she is so smart and funny

Jennifer, does she pronounce her name "Taves"? Or "Taze"?

If she has been to Portland, I missed her. Hope to hear her speak/read from her works someday.

'taves'. if you do get the opportunity to see her talk/read (and i truly hope you do), she's terrific! toews participated in an awesome thing with China Miéville at IFOA (international festival of authors, held annually in toronto) a couple of years ago and it was mind-blowingly good. http://ifoa.org/2012/ifoa-events/miev...

I have not read 8 new books since TOB but GOD IN RUINS, END OF DAYS (Erpenbeck, November, 2014) and THE SYMPATHIZER (based on 100 pages so far) would be my choices. I have read more disappointments than dazzlers.

so zink read and reviewed Purity, but it was taken down from n+1. i didn't catch it yesterday, just the jezebel coverage of it:

http://jezebel.com/nell-zinks-review-...

You'll find a link to the cached n+1 original review, but I'm not going to read it. I'm imagining an email from Franzen to Zink: "Please. Don't do me any favors."

Lljones wrote: "You'll find a link to the cached n+1 original review, but I'm not going to read it. I'm imagining an email from Franzen to Zink: "Please. Don't do me any favors.""

on n+1's website it now says 'bowing to publishing traditions...'

i wasn't so intersted in the actual review (i tend to stay away from them until i have a chance to read a book for myself), but zink was fresh in mind thanks to this discussion, and i was more curious about the change.

Lljones wrote: "You'll find a link to the cached n+1 original review, but I'm not going to read it. I'm imagining an email from Franzen to Zink: "Please. Don't do me any favors.""

Just reading the excerpt from Zink's review posted on Jezebel, I'm guessing that Zink's agent or publicist begged for it to be taken down because of what it says about Zink's writing ability (or, more specifically, lack thereof).

Haven't read all (most) of these, but these are books I'd like to see:

City on Fire
Delicious Foods
The Fair Fight
The First Bad Man (read, liked, want to know what others think)
A God in Ruins (currently reading)
A Little Life (on hold at the library)
Preparation for the Next Life (Poingu, you're very convincing)
Welcome to Braggsville

From what I've read so far (published this year) - My favorites so far:

A Little Life
Delicious Foods
The Familiar, Volume 1: One Rainy Day in May
The Buried Giant
None of the Above
The Beautiful Bureaucrat
The Library at Mount Char
The First Bad Man

AmberBug wrote: "From what I've read so far (published this year) - My favorites so far:

AmberBug, thanks. There are 4 books on your list I haven't even heard of before now and they sound great.

Holly wrote: "The First Bad Man..."

I just got this from the library. I'm a little nervous about Miranda July for some reason where sometimes she gives me the feeling I want to fast forward through a scene or look away from the page, but I'll steel myself.

Poingu wrote: "AmberBug wrote: "From what I've read so far (published this year) - My favorites so far:

AmberBug, thanks. There are 4 books on your list I haven't even heard of before now and they sound great.

..."

I went in fully expecting to hate it (ugh, quirk), but I was really curious after The A.V. Club's declaration that it was 'the first great novel of 2015'. That's debatable, but I was surprised at how engaging and fully-formed the protagonist was. There's a lot of cringe, but in a good way, I think.

Poingu wrote: "AmberBug wrote: "From what I've read so far (published this year) - My favorites so far:

AmberBug, thanks. There are 4 books on your list I haven't even heard of before now and they sound great.

..."

Yes! Many scenes had me grinding my teeth but I really did like this book

Lljones wrote: "Attention, TOB group moderators: Maybe we should start a new discussion thread called "Should'a Been a Contender"

The moderators have not posted for at least a year. We are functioning as a well-mannered anarchy.

My favorites this year, so far...

The Animals
The Tusk That Did the Damage
The Sellout