Book Nook Cafe discussion

I read chapter 1. It was only 5 pages ! After TOR I love the tiny chapters.

I've never been to Arizona/New Mexico where the book is set. Have you?

Reading the preface I thought the writing was a bit awkward and abrupt. However, after reading chap. 1, I think the stark and stripped down sentences mirror their existence at the Lazy B.

I don't think I could live in the harsh desert surroundings without running water, indoor plumbing and electricity. Though I guess young kids adapt to their surroundings, especially if that is all they know.

Alias >> I read chapter 1. It was only 5 pages ! After TOR I love the tiny chapters.

I've never been to Arizona/New Mexico where the book is set. Have you? <<

Oops! I'm behind already! I am going to like shorter chapters, that's for sure. We lived in Phoenix in the mid-70s but i'm sure it was quite a contrast to her experience. When we first moved here to Texas i read several books & wondered how they survived--AZ must be even worse. But, like Texans, they probably learn ways to work through the worse, such as not working during the hottest times of day. I'm looking forward to this & will start today, Alias.

deb

Alias Reader wrote: Reading the preface I thought the writing was a bit awkward and abrupt. However, after reading chap. 1, I think the stark and stripped down sentences mirror their existence at the Lazy B.

Maybe you are right, Alias. I really didn't care for the writing at all for the first few chapters. However, this may be because nothing here is new--this is the story of my grandparents and even my own dad. However, when i read the one about the first cowboy Rastus, i perked up a bit. I almost always find the non-lead (so to speak) characters in ranch novels fascinating. What motivates them to stay when they don't have a stake in the place?

ANYway,maybe suffering through the first bare chapters will be worth it. I read one paragraph six sentences long where 4 of the 6 began with, "He..." That was elemental in editing way back in high school.

Your point about the prose reflecting to the landscape may be true but, frankly, i've read better, also by non-authors. Still, because it's a new & different experience from a Supreme Court judge i'm sure many liked it better than i am.

One final note on their mother. She is retorts when a banker asks her how many head of cattle she has? This is standard fodder for conversation in the west, so i don't get her dismay. THEN we are supposed to respect her because she decided it was okay to ask Rastus how much money he had? Which is more invasive, i ask you? Apparently it's alright because she made money for him.

deborah

Deborah, if you click on the book cover in my first post, you can read the 118 GR posters who reviewed the book.

I really like that feature.

I think Donna from Maryland (aol) read this book. Donna if you are here at GR, am I correct? If so, did you like it?

Maybe I was being kind about the writing. After TOR, I thought I maybe had to adjust to a slower and more simple style.

I'll try to get in a few more chapter tonight.

Debroah: ANYway,maybe suffering through the first bare chapters will be worth it. I read one paragraph six sentences long where 4 of the 6 began with, "He..." That was elemental in editing way back in high school.
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Oh, great. Now you have me fixating on all the sentences that start with He. LOL. The writing is stilted, and the sentences seem quite simple. I guess for some reason I expect more from a Supreme Ct. Justice. I notice that she wrote the book with her brother. Do you think maybe he wrote the bulk and they put her name as a co-author on it to help sales ?

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Deboarah: She is retorts when a banker asks her how many head of cattle she has? This is standard fodder for conversation in the west, so i don't get her dismay. THEN we are supposed to respect her because she decided it was okay to ask Rastus how much money he had? Which is more invasive, i ask you? Apparently it's alright because she made money for him.
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I guess since she raised him from 6 years of age, the relationship was as if he were one of her children. And since he didn't read or write, I guess she felt she was doing him a favor. Day makes a point to say he did well with the investments. The banker was an outsider. Maybe the banking profession was not looked kindly upon. I would think the question was sort of a general one and the answer would be common knowledge in the area. I felt he was just trying to make conversation. I don't know what the proper etiquette in that time and place would be. Though I agree with you it is odd. Day just keeps throwing things out there and doesn't really have much follow though. (at least in the first chapters that I've read).

I did have a question about Rastus. He was only a small child of 6 when he showed up on the farm. Never mind that Day doesn't go into any of the obvious questions of why the child was just allowed to stay with them and apparently no effort was made to reunite him with his mother. But why was he never educated? Was it racism of that era?

Alias

Chapter 7

I just sat down to start chapter 7. However, I had to stop and got online to post to you.

Chapter 7 starts with Bug Quinn. We are told (surprise ! ) that he has "twinkling eyes". I haven't counted but this has to be at least the third person described as such, in only 70 pages. Good grief.

And isn't it quite amazing that everyone is the nicest, happiest, and hardest working people you could ever hope to meet?

I hope things get a little more interesting. At least it is a quick read.

Alias

I've read about 200 pages. I'm up to Chapter 19: Pets. I have to say this is not going to be rated high by me. The writing is atrocious and the story bland.

Where to begin. Each antidote is only a few paragraphs long, than it seem she switches to another topic. Even though the chapters are only a handful of pages, they sometimes encompasses 50+ years. Nothing is really fleshed out. Maybe because there isn't much there to begin with. It seems like routine ranch work to me.

Is it me or the POV seems all wrong and at times changes. For ex. p95. Why does she call her mother Ada Mae and write "her baby" Wouldn't it be more personal, this is a memoir after all, to call her mother ma or Mo? And why doesn't she say came home with me. Using "baby" seems like she is an observer to events, not a participant.

P96. "In time he grew to love his daughter". why not say me.

P 96 she says "keep baby Sandra happy. Then next paragraph she will say me or I. She keeps switching between Mo and Ida Mae, too.

p119. Instead of saying my family, or our family she uses the formal "The Day family missed their closes neighbors, the Kinneys, very much."

And why if Alan is co-author is he always referred to in the book as Alan. It seems he never has a first person voice in the story.

I know JoAnn would just love the made up dialogue from her childhood. NOT.

P102. I think her transition between paragraphs is too jarring.
Take this page for ex. She is talking about learning to drive as a kid. And relates how Alan would work the pedals and Ann steer. The next paragraphs starts with " Another constant part of ranch life was beef jerky."
What ???

I also think that people who pick this book up want to read about Sandra Day O'Connor, not a whole book on random ranch hands. Even her reflections on the ranch hands seem superficial at best.

This is not what I expected at all from a Supreme Ct. justice.


Alias

Alias, i dropped the ball & you've moved right along. I haven't read any more since i last posted, as we had a bit of a medical emergency with my dad. As you wrote, at least it's fast reading...if you don't allow yourself to get hung up on the problems with the writing.

When i read the newspaper review of this book all i remember is reading how growing up in the west was recounted. Maybe we are supposed to give them a break but it's hard to do so, given the mediocrity of the prose, the almost erratic topic jumping and other inconsistencies. As we've both mentioned, even the reflections are mostly just skin deep.

Then there is the first person issue you mentioned. Early on i noticed that the judge is given the "I" position, whereas Alan is relegated to a character. I guess this won't be going on our list of "best of the year"--lol.

You make a good point about Rastus & the money. It was a nice gesture, i was just surprised that MO thought it was okay to ask him that personal question. As for his age, he was 6 when his dad died but i assumed a few years later his mom remarried & he decided to leave because he didn't like the stepfather. They give us no other ages but we know he was born in 1900. I'm with you, i can't imagine a 6 year old being given a job & not an education. However, i can imagine this happening with an 11 year old, particularly back then. In my own lifetime i had a cousin with a ranch in west Texas. They hired fairly young people whenever they crossed their path, thinking the kid was better off with them than roaming from ranch to ranch. WHile they weren't treated much like children, and certainly not like their own kids, they were given a safe haven. It may be this is how the Day family viewed helping him, too. Still, it seems odd not to help him learn to read &/or write, esp. if he was not even a teenager yet.

I'll be reading more today & will comment further then.
deborah

madrano wrote: "Alias, i dropped the ball & you've moved right along. I haven't read any more since i last posted, as we had a bit of a medical emergency with my dad. As you wrote, at least it's fast reading...if ..."
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Deborah, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad.
I hope he is feeling better soon. It's a good thing you moved and are there to help him.

I finished, Lazy B by Sandra Day O'Connor. Unfortunately, I was quite disappointed in the book. The witting was shockingly dreadful and the stories were pedestrian.

Deborah, don't worry about replying to this post. You have more important things on your mind with your dad. Since I started to post about the book and took a few notes, I just wanted to tie it all up.

There are endless examples of jumping from one topic to another from one paragraph to the next. Sometimes ideas are thrown out there with no explanation. Take page 208 for ex. We are told in this chapter about the pets at the Lazy B, each pet seems to get one paragraph before we jump to another one. The author throws out this solo sentences and moves on without further explanation.
"We tried keeping a baby coyote as a pet but learned that what the cowboys said was true, You cannot make a pet of a coyote."

P217 Is it me or is this sentence not written well. After Alan dismounts a unruly horse. Day writes: "Alan rubbed the back of his neck and talked to the horse" Whose neck? Was Alan rubbing his own neck or the horses?

P244. Astonishingly something really exciting does happen in the book. At the end of this chapter, out of the blue, we are told that they as they looked out the kitchen widow they witnessed the first testing of the atomic bomb ! Do we hear anymore about this...nope. It's over and done with in a few sentences.

chapter 25 P271 the last page of this chapter once again jumps to the future for a few paragraphs when out of the blue she writes that she married someone named John and had 3 kids. Yet, her marriage and an introduction to John doesn't happen until chapter 27.

p298 In this chapter we are told about her aging parents, and her fathers hip replacement. Then abruptly the topic changes and completely out of the blue we are told, President Reagan appointed her to the Supreme Court ! What ? The only place we read about her legal career path is on the back cover flap. There was absolutely no lead up to this announcement. and we hear no more about it.

Finally, on page 316 she mentions James Galvins book Fencing the Sky
Galvin gives us the best quote of the book. "They demonize each other out of fear" I have Galvins book on my TBR.

Sorry, but I will state the obvious, I will not be recommending Lazy B to anyone. :(

Alias,
Looks like I will be skipping "Lazy B" as it sounds totally underwhelming.

Barbara

Barbara, that would be my advice.

Alias, thanks for your thoughts about my dad. We were in the city yesterday but came home last night. After i posted my early morning posts, i started feeling flu-ish & have done so all day. This means we didn't go back into Dallas but also means i got to read much more of the book.

Like you, i continue to be underwhelmed. It almost looks as though the words were elaborated from a taped conversation, with extra bits thrown in. Some things are fleshed out but others are not. Sadly, much of what isn't a full idea sounds more interesting.

Otoh, i must admit that i'm glad these memories are written down. During my years in the Dakotas i found pleasure & instruction in reading books about early settlers to the areas. It helps folks from these days understand some of the obstacles faced by such pioneers in days before many conveniences. Having written that, i must say that this book is on a par with those Dakota memoirs & none of those folks had the educational advantages of the Supreme Court Justice.

I may well finish the book tonight since i'm well rested now. :-) I'm glad to read your thoughts on the book & glad we read it together, so we could validate one another's impressions.

deborah

Madrano:
i started feeling flu-ish & have done so all day
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:( Sorry to hear that. I hope you are feeling better soon. Gosh, first your cold and now this. It seems you can't totally shake it.
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madrano:
During my years in the Dakotas i found pleasure & instruction in reading books about early settlers to the areas. It helps folks from these days understand some of the obstacles faced by such pioneers in days before many conveniences. Having written that, i must say that this book is on a par with those Dakota memoirs & none of those folks had the educational advantages of the Supreme Court Justice.
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Deborah, have you read Pioneer Women?

Product Description from Amazon

From a rediscovered collection of priceless autobiographical accounts written by hundreds of pioneer women, Joanna Stratton has made a remarkable and widely celebrated book. Never before has there been such a detailed record of women's courage, such a living portrait of the women who civilized the American frontier. Here are their stories: wilderness mothers, schoolmarms, Indian squaws, immigrants, homesteaders, and circuit riders. Their personal recollections of prairie fires, locust plagues, cowboy shootouts, Indian raids, and blizzards on the plains vividly reveal the drama, danger and excitement of the pioneer experience.

These were women of relentless determination, whose tenacity helped them to conquer loneliness and privation. Their work was the work of survival, it demanded as much from them as from their men -- and at last that partnership has been recognized. "These voices are haunting" (New York Times Book Review), and they reveal the special heroism and industriousness of pioneer women as never before.

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Madrano: I'm glad to read your thoughts on the book & glad we read it together, so we could validate one another's impressions.
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And I appreciate someone to listen to my rant. :)

Alias

I finished the book tonight. There were a couple of chapters which i actually liked & felt could have made for a good story in themselves. They were chapters about Alan's time breaking horses. A sort of enthusiasm as well as instruction made those chapters worth the effort. I suppose Alan might have written a story which wouldn't have sold but adding his sister's story made the book less interesting. Oh well.

I haven't read Stratton's book, although i have it on my TBR list. I read another book along a similar vein, excerpts from diaries, journals & letters. It's a great way to learn about the daily lives of settlers.

deborah

Deborah said: "I haven't read Stratton's book, although i have it on my TBR list."

Oh, Deborah. Gotta read this book. Gotta.

Jan O'Hardtaskmastercat

Ah ha! I think it was probably you who foisted the book on my TBR list. Now i know!

deb

Deborah outcried with joy: "Ah ha! I think it was probably you who foisted the book on my TBR list. Now i know!"

Yep, I rarely miss an opportunity to tout it. I liked it much better than Women's Diaries of the Westward Journey, though frankly at this point I don't remember why.

I'm going to put it on my Books Read list. That should force you to read it so that we can be book twins.

Jan O'Badger

Have either of you read Pioneer Women: The lives of women on the frontier by Linda Peavy ?

I love the cover of the book. I've had it on my TBR for a few years.


Amazon:
The rarely seen and startlingly vital black-and-white photographs in this volume capture the fortitude and pride of the clear-eyed women of the frontier, women who had to practice all the tender arts of nurturing a family under the most rugged of circumstances. Peavy and Smith cut through all the myths of frontier life in their frank and engaging commentary, getting down to the cold, gritty facts under such headings as "Keeping Spirits Up," "Night Fears," "Warding Off Insects and Animals," and "Little Ones Lost." This litany alludes to the loneliness and isolation of pioneer existence, where every act, from securing clean drinking water to making clothes, required long, hard labor, and where pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood often involved as much tragedy as joy. Little-discussed issues, such as marriages between Anglo men and Indian and Hispanic women, are examined, as are the lives of women who found employment outside the homestead as teachers, physicians, businesswomen, journalists, and even prostitutes. A book as fresh and inspiring as a bright, breezy day on the plains. Donna Seaman --

JanOMalleycat wrote: I'm going to put it on my Books Read list. That should force you to read it so that we can be book twins.


Yes, because that is my goal, isn't it? ;-)


Alias, no i haven't read that Peavy book but agree with you about the cover. I think the photos would be a great way to learn about these lives. Thanks for the title.

deborah

Alias, it was me that nominated the book (I'm ducking!) but haven't read it yet. When I read the review, I was interested to learn more about how she and her brother grew up, as well as times on the ranch.

Reading your comments, it reminds me of the book we read a couple of years ago about the Alaska Homesteaders. The writing style was clunky, and the editing was terrible.

It's sad to to think that this could have been a much better book if it had had a more forceful editor. I still have it on my list to order from the Library. I am forewarned. :o)

I keep the Pioneer Women book on the headboard of my bed, and love to look through the photographs. I love to read about these women. I can't imagine the hardships they had to endure.

Donna in Southern Maryland

Just finished Love Mercy by Earlene Fowler

Donna in S. Maryland: Alias, it was me that nominated the book (I'm ducking!) but haven't read it yet.
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Don't give it another thought. I, too, thought it sounded like a good read. Unfortunately, there wasn't much substance, imo. I guess I was expecting a lot more from the first women on the SC. I would note however, that some GR (click on cover to read their comments) and Amazon readers did like it. So you may still like it.

Hey, if we all think alike, this would be a very boring message board. :)

BTW, even though the writing wasn't great in Arctic Homestead, I thought the story was very interesting, and it gave us a lot to discuss. It was one of our better discussions, imo. Lazy B, I think falls down on both fronts, the writing and the story.

This book was on my TBR, too. The reviews were positive, which was another reason i wanted to read it. Certainly it is remarkable that a Supreme Court justice came from this background and not some silver spoon place. This may be why the reviewers found the book better than we did. On the back of my library copy of this book is a quote from Doris Kearns Goodwin, "It isn't necessary to have ever set foot on a ranch to savor O'Connor and Day's beautifully conveyed reminiscence about growing up on the same piece of land where their parents and grandparents had lived and worked. This is an endearing memoir about a vanishing era, a place and a family that nurtured the feisty young girl who became an extraordinary woman."

I am baffled by the "beautifully conveyed" because i felt the descriptions were flat, both of the land and of their parents. Perhaps she was viewing it from the vantage point of future historians & what they will be able to ferret out about such lives. While i'm reconciled to the fact the descriptions of the land were pedestrian, afterall, not many can evoke striking features of the landscape around us, it's the lives portrayed which seemed one dimensional and disappointing. I felt i had little sense of what made the judge the woman she is. However, as i mentioned upthread, the sections about Alan did give me a sense of some of the steps in learning to live and aspire to be like the men on the ranch.

Donna, it'll be nice to read your comments when you read the book. You may end up calling us the worst critics in the world!

deborah

Former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor announces dementia diagnosis

The first woman to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court and President Ronald Reagan's first nominee for the high court, Sandra Day O'Connor, announced she is in the early stages of what is likely Alzheimer's disease. USA TODAY

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...

This is very very sad, as it is for everyone who suffers from this condition.

I feel like O'Connor made a valuable contribution to the country with her service and I liked her book Out of Order: Stories from the History of the Supreme Court

I'll pray for Ms. Day O'Connor. It''s a devastating thing she is going through.

I was sad to read this. It must be particularly daunting for her having tended to her husband as he suffered through the same battle.

In Memory of Sandra Day O'Connor
Born: March 26, 1930, El Paso, TX
Died: December 1, 2023, Phoenix, AZ

Sandra Day O'Connor: A ranch girl who became 'queen of the court'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-can...

Nice idea, Alias. I remember reading the book with you but couldn't recall whether others had joined us. I see we were less enamored with the book than i thought. LOL!

In retrospect, perhaps it's just the fact that she came from the background she did and landed at the Supreme Court which made the book stand out. Something for me to consider, given my overall thoughts on the book years later. Hmmm.

madrano wrote: "Nice idea, Alias. I remember reading the book with you but couldn't recall whether others had joined us. I see we were less enamored with the book than i thought. LOL!

In retrospect, perhaps it's ..."

Yes. That is why I am hesitant to read Out of Order: Stories from the History of the Supreme Court. Still, I put the title in my TBR notebook.

These are not necessarily her personal experiences, either, i see.