fiction files redux discussion

here, soon. thoughts?

It certainly makes sense for Amazon, but my first thought was, well are there other reading social networks. Not final tho.

Just got an email about it from GR. I'm so dissappointed. Not sure I can stick it out.

prepare to be monetized

I'm disappointed.

Do you really think they'll make huge changes? Don't all throw rocks at me, but here in Vegas we don't have a lot of bookstores, only a few B&N's left, so I buy most of my books on Amazon, if I'm not buying used.

:¬(

That is the whole of my response. And my heart isn't even in the '¬'.

Matt wrote: "get prepared to be monetized"

Yip, like a piece of suasage on a conveyor belt.

Not throwing rocks Kerry, but part of the reason there aren't many bookstores in Las Vegas, or anywhere else, is that Amazon put them out of business. They are ruining my world and I loathe them.

In terms of outward facing changes to the GR site, I'm guessing there won't be any or they will at least be subtle at first. However, what you have here on GR is an enormous database of information about your likes and dislikes, and the only possible motivation for Amazon to hook up with GR is to use GR as a selling tool and source of information about your buying habits.

the GR value prop from an amazonian world view probably looks like this:

massive dbase of potential ready-made customers

to patty's point data data data

& a recommendation engine better than any algorithm (us talking to each other)

Im sure there's more they're not stupid, just venal

Matt wrote: "the GR value prop from an amazonian world view probably looks like this:

massive dbase of potential ready-made customers

to patty's point data data data

& a recommendation engine better than any..."

Amazon isn't coming -- they never left. I'm sure they've been buying data from GR for a long time.

They have book links which send members directly to Amazon - which I use all the time, but in my case, Amazon France. The main difference is that now they will have access to our specific data like email and such, where before, they would have something more general like "51 year old male purchased Infinite Jest on September 21st from vendor X" And of course, the purchases I made on Amazon France, they know all of my personal info.

Over in the Chronic Complainers Group GR Feedback Group, many members are imagining that we'll no longer be able to link to B&N and other vendors. This is unlikely because those links represent income via affiliate programs. If I'm looking at a book description and I click on a book link for B&N, a tracking code is attached to that transaction and a portion of what I purchase is paid back to GR for being an affiliate of B&N. In other words, dropping links to non-Amazon vendors would result in revenue loss, and would be a bad business decision. So now, if you buy a kindle version of a book, Amazon makes money. If you buy a nook version of a book, Amazon will receive a percentage of the sale price. They are evil geniuses, no?

Slothful publishers & book distributors put bookstores out of biz. They couldnt get a 'modern' sales act together. In NYC 15 yrs ago - one couldt find an off-beat title at top lit'ry store.. "Can you order it?" ~ "Lemme see...oh, our distributor doesnt carry it." ~~ Now one can find anything on Amazon.

Real victim : bkstores. Villains ? Distribs, pubs.

sketch I'd argue that you're wrong on your particulars in terms of 'top literary bookstores selection and ordering' but your general thesis isnt far wrong which is to say at the very least the pubs & distributors havent helped

but it's naive to assume that amazon hasnt done significant damage to street bookselling

nor that the lazy &/or complacent consumer hasnt pitched a shovel or two of dirt on the grave (which is fine just dont whine to me about how your favorite bookstore is closing down)

what's interesting now however is that alot of independents are seeing a resurgence - it's actually the death of 'corporate bookselling' (aside from amazon) that's happening now

and you could argue that 'corporate bookselling' was never a good idea in the first place

You've got to be fucking kidding me. I look away for a few days and miss this news.

I am not an Amazon fan. I do wonder if the changes Amazon makes will be that far out of line with the way facebook handles our data?

I just dont like it on general principle because fuck amazon

So yeah, fuck Amazon and all. But here are a few thoughts I’ve had while reading and thinking about this the past couple of days. First, it was sold for something like 150 million dollars. Which is a good deal of money considering Goodreads raised less than 2.5 million on its own. If I created something and the devil himself offered me 150 million for I’d hardly hesitate. Luckily, literature has never given us any compelling reasons to not deal with the devil. Apparently, Otis is still going to be running the show and could earn quite a bit more if he hits certain milestones or metrics. What those are no one knows, but they’re certain to be nefarious.

Secondly, when this deal was announced and the founder (Otis) and an Amazon representative were doing press it was a Kindle person. This I believe to be somewhat telling. The move was likely an effort to bring a social community to the Kindle platform and more broadly Amazon. In the past Amazon’s efforts to do this have been unsuccessful. And just to state the obvious it’s also a move to sell more ebooks (and other stuff to a somewhat captive audience).

The question to me is whether or not, we will be able to handle the changes or persist in spite of them, and use Goodreads the way we always have. We can as always (I think and if you prefer) to continue to not shop there.

So, the first thing I noticed about the Amazon purchase:

Accidentally typing the URL incorrectly as goodredas.com rerouted me directly to amazon.com's homepage (though I don't know if that happened prior to the purchase or not, because it could have).

Kerry: "Do you really think they'll make huge changes? Don't all throw rocks at me, but here in Vegas we don't have a lot of bookstores, only a few B&N's left, so I buy most of my books on Amazon, if I'm not buying used."
Same here in Tucson, just a few B&N for new books and I usually shop off Amazon if the local Bookmans used doesn't have it. I have no concept of the changes that are going to occur from this purchase. Do we know why they would even want it?

I'm a bad consumer. I guiltily enjoy getting packages, especially when it's books. I'm usually looking for something specific and that's easier to hunt down on Amazon. From here on out I'm pledging to use the few local bookstores I know of here in Tucson, outside of my go to for used. You're all witnesses to this oath. Thanks for your participation.

there are plenty of on-line sites to buy books from that are not amazon - often times not a bad way to support your local independent from afar

@Natalie - I was just in Antigone Books on 4th on Saturday. They had a pretty decent selection and good prices on their remainders.

Dan wrote: "@Natalie - I was just in Antigone Books on 4th on Saturday. They had a pretty decent selection and good prices on their remainders."

I do like Antigone but don't visit enough. I have been meaning to visit the other bookstore on 4th, not sure of its name. Have you been in there? It's closer to the Shanty I believe, but I can't exactly place it in my head at the moment.

Yeah! That's the BookStop. They're a used bookstore. If I remember correctly I found them to be a little expensive at least when compared to Bookman's.

I did once buy a book called Books from the Book Stop and found that McMurtry dedicated Books in part, to the very same Book Stop. Pretty odd.

On a side note, McMurtry is a grumpy old bastard so don't waste an hour standing in line for a chat and a signature if presented with the opportunity (at the Tucson Festival of Books).

Dan wrote: "Yeah! That's the BookStop. They're a used bookstore. If I remember correctly I found them to be a little expensive at least when compared to Bookman's.

I did once buy a book called Books from the..."

Duly noted, thank you ;)

Powell's is an option for online. On another note, I signed up for LibraryThing. I like the interface better. But I would like to copy at least some of my book data. Anyone know how this is done?

Robert wrote: "Powell's is an option for online. On another note, I signed up for LibraryThing. I like the interface better. But I would like to copy at least some of my book data. Anyone know how this is done?"

Powell's as in the best bookstore ever located in Portland Powell's??? I would shop from them online...hell I've thought about moving to Portland just so I could go back to the store. It was amazing.

It is. And with the Bolt here in Seattle online seems wrong. But it is an option. Shop Amazon, just not for books!

used & new from betterworldbooks.com. Money goes to support libraries & literacy partners. They have a huge selection, they are super fast, inexpensive, offer free shipping. I don't know why anyone would shop from any other online store.

Ha! At the same time Patty was writing that last post, Chris was extolling the virtues of Betterworldbooks.com to me.

as much as i'd like to give betterworldbooks the whole-hearted support patty (and chris) gave them, i can't -- though i love them in principle.

i've ordered for them twice and got books that were literally falling apart twice -- there were other books that were okay in the package but they were all listed an "excellent" condition at their website. that's not to say i wouldn't use them again but it's been terribly disappointing, and that's why i still order from abe -- for used books i can trust... but i saw somewhere say they thought abe has been absorbed by amazon as well? does anybody know if that's true?

amazon is my list ditch attempt. if i can't get it anywhere else, i'll go there but otherwise, i've been avoiding it for years but i'm in a city with a lot of book culture that hasn't been totally destroyed (though we too have felt their impact) by them. i mean, i have a great used bookstore that is 400 feet from my apartment building. but that won't always be the case...

Dan wrote: "First, it was sold for something like 150 million dollars. Which is a good deal of money considering Goodreads raised less than 2.5 million on its own. If I created something and the devil himself offered me 150 million for I’d hardly hesitate. ...."

you wouldn't even hesitate a little? sort of surprised to hear this kind of statement from you, dan. i prescribe some adam curtis documentaries to you. :)

my two cents is that i'm very unhappy that this has happened but i don't see a viable alternative for me to goodreads right now. i've had a library thing account since before i got my goodreads one and i never liked the interface. in general, i don't read the kind of literature that amazon is going to market to me is the kind i want -- i don't read current best-sellers, and i have a clear predilection for OP books.

i am waiting-and-seeing but i can't help feel put off by otis and co -- they got us to do a lot of work for them for free when they stopped using the amazon database (which i can't help but seeing now as a ploy in their no-doubt ongoing negotiations with amazon). i have a lot of reviews i've written that i would like to continue to see as my content, not amazon's.

about the group itself: we moved from myspace to goodreads to try to salvage the group, and i'm not sure how well we succeeded. i don't know that it could survive another one. but maybe it's time to accept that the group has served its purpose and is in its twilight anyway. once upon a time a thread like this would have had a bazillion comments... not that i don't appreciate the efforts of people who still post here... i really do. but i think one more move would effectively end this.

When I joined Goodreads, I assumed Otis Chandler was a member of the Chandler family that owned and ran the LA Times for years and that this website wasn't being run because he needed the money. Arianna Huffington presumably didn't need the money when she sold Huffington Post and the critique was similar. The unpaid contributors created the value you sold, Arianna. Huffington Post is now virtually an online tabloid. When big dollars are offered, it's difficult to walk away, I'm sure.

It may be that Goodreads needed capital to keep up its network with the sites expanding membership. If that were the case, I don't know why it didn't go public like tripadvisor.com or use crowdsourcing or preferred stock offering with its membership here.

Amazon already has Shelfari which would have really been a competitive site to Goodreads. Amazon simply didn't put the resources into that site. It doesn't bode well for Goodreads.

ABE has been owned by Amazon since 2008; I've been ordering from them for much longer than that (even when I worked at Amazon, I didn't order used books from them), and I haven't seen any difference in how they're run.

I have to agree with Maureen: I like the idea of Betterworldbooks in general, but I've been burned by them several times as far as book condition, which is why I stick to ABE and Powells.com (or just going to Powell's once or twice a year).

I too am adopting a "wait and see" attitude wrt the Amazon buyout. I love LibraryThing for cataloging and occasionally read and post reviews there, but their book discussion forums leave a lot to be desired. I would hate to lose the GR community.

Margaret wrote: "ABE has been owned by Amazon since 2008; I've been ordering from them for much longer than that (even when I worked at Amazon, I didn't order used books from them), and I haven't seen any differenc..."

Powell's looks pretty awesome, but their shipping fees are outrageously high. Will have to plan a vacation to the pacific coast...

Jim wrote: "Margaret wrote: "ABE has been owned by Amazon since 2008; I've been ordering from them for much longer than that (even when I worked at Amazon, I didn't order used books from them), and I haven't s..."

I hadn't as of yet looked at their shipping fees, that's disheartening :( I like that Amazon offers free shipping :/

Jim wrote: "Powell's looks pretty awesome, but their shipping fees are outrageously high. Will have to plan a vacation to the pacific coast..."

Their per-item shipping charges do suck, but they have a decent flat-rate economy mail option and free shipping over $50. Definitely more fun to visit the store, though!