Pick-a-Shelf discussion

A friend just pointed this out to me: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.z...
I guess it makes sense -- the people who started GR will be paid for all the work they put into it. But I really fear what the long-term effect on GR will be.
Groan

I've been reading all the negative feedback here on Goodreads (from the story link at the top of the home page). Just fyi, this review below is revealing ... check out all the "I thinks" and other vague indications:
interview

LynnB wrote: "I've been reading all the negative feedback here on Goodreads (from the story link at the top of the home page). Just fyi, this review below is revealing ... check out all the "I thinks" and other ..."

Thanks for the links. I keep my page set on Pick-a-Shelf, and often forget to check what's on the home page.

From an NPR article:

Amazon, of course, started as an online bookseller and now sells everything from cameras to banana slicers. Recently, it announced it was entering the world of original film and TV series. But it is its actions in the world of books that have raised the hackles of traditional publishers as well as its rivals.

Thursday's news comes just weeks after Hachette Book Group, Penguin Group (USA) and Simon & Schuster joined forces to launch their own book-recommendation site, Bookish. It also follows Amazon's bid to claim new Internet domains such as ".book," ".author," and ".read" — attempts that are being fought by the Authors Guild and the Association of American Publishers, as NPR's Annalisa Quinn noted recently.

I found out about this just as I was leaving for camping (checked out my emails in the car) but didn't get any further that it's happened. Am not quite sure what to think of it- but am definitely not too happy about this.

Why does Amazon have to be in everything?!

Sherri wrote: "From an NPR article:

Thursday's news comes just weeks after Hachette Book Group, Penguin Group (USA) and Simon & Schuster joined forces to launch their own book-recommendation site, Bookish."

I'm going to have to check Bookish. I hadn't heard of it before.

This has made me nervous and angry and sad in varying degrees. I love Goodreads and don't want to see it sucked dry by a giant corp (even one that I patronize from time to time). I'm in wait and see mode. Also, looking into alternative book cataloging and social networks as well. Just in case.

So far, most curious about:

http://www.librarything.com
http://booklikes.com/
http://www.rifflebooks.com/
http://www.libib.com/

librarything limits your books go 100 on your shelf under free membership. Though lifetime membership is only $25 (I think).

Rifflebooks looked more like pinterest but only for books -though not sure if I looked at it properly, what do you think?

booklikes looks good...

Don't think I like libib.

Tien wrote: "librarything limits your books go 100 on your shelf under free membership. Though lifetime membership is only $25 (I think).

Rifflebooks looked more like pinterest but only for books -though not ..."

I discovered that LibraryThing has a yearly membership option, too, where you can choose to pay anything from $1 on up to $20, with $10 being the "standard." I paid $1 for now to see if I like it and will upgrade to a lifetime/$25 account later if I feel it's worthwhile (especially since it has no ads, unlike GR.) They gave away free year memberships to Goodreads refugees this past weekend, but since I've had an account (dormant) there since 2008, that didn't apply to me.

I will be keeping accounts at both sites, for different reasons. I mod a group here that I don't want to abandon, and I like the community. But I like it there, too, and I like having an option if the whole Amazon thing turns out to be unpleasant in the long run. (Personally, I am happy to have multiple book site options, so I don't mind keeping up both accounts for now.)

Dionisia wrote: "So far, most curious about:

http://www.librarything.com
http://booklikes.com/
http://www.rifflebooks.com/
http://www.libib.com/
"

I understand that librarything and shelfari are owned in part or whole by Amazon ... just can't get away from them :(

LynnB wrote: "Dionisia wrote: "So far, most curious about:

http://www.librarything.com
http://booklikes.com/
http://www.rifflebooks.com/
http://www.libib.com/
"

I understand that librarything and shelfari are ..."

From what I've been told on the LibraryThing forums, Amazon did indeed buy Shelfari (just as they bought IMDB for movies,) but AbeBooks bought 40% of LibraryThing. AbeBooks was subsequently bought by Amazon, but that second-hand relationship doesn't give them the same rights as they have with Goodreads. Furthermore, the owner/proprietor of LT states that he has purposefully kept controlling percentage so that no investor can call the shots.

But I agree (and I say this as someone who once really liked Amazon) that they are becoming too pervasive and ubiquitous. I still use them on occasion, but I don't buy new from them. I only use their Marketplace to buy from indie or used bookstores who have their storefront on that Amazon subsite.

I thought booklikes.com looked good until I tried to visit a book's info page. If I wanted to read the full synopsis, I had to click a "read more" link which took me to Amazon. Bah.

Thanks for that link, LynnB. I've had some of the same questions...I really hoped that stays the case!

I must be the only person around that really isn't that worried about this. I understand about the complaints that people do not like the way that Amazon handles reviews, and if you are using GRs mainly as a review site, that could be a problem. And I freely admit that I tend to look at things in a very simplistic way. But for me, I am in this for the social aspect of it and the people that I get to talk and commune with. As long as I still have my groups, I can still talk books with people, and I still have my shelves and a way to catalog all my books, I am good. My fear is that enough members are upset enough and looking at other sites, that my book discussions and friend groups are going to be adversely affected whether Amazon changes anything or not. :( That would be really sad to me.

Lyn M wrote: "I must be the only person around that really isn't that worried about this. I understand about the complaints that people do not like the way that Amazon handles reviews, and if you are using GRs ..."

That makes sense, Lynn. And I agree with most of what you say. However, if Amazon starts picking up GR reviews without a way for us to opt out, then that will affect my participation in groups. I won't write a review for Amazon to use. So that might mean I couldn't review a book I'd read for our shelf of the month, for example.

As long as they give us a choice to opt in or out of things like that, I'll be ok. But you're right -- a lot of people have already left.

I know from experience that reviews on Audible (also owned by 'zon) haven't been x-posted so I have hope

I'd prefer if all roads didn't lead to Amazon. If the links stay the same, if the free e-books aren't removed, if the ads are still modest, I will be satisfied.

I'm waiting to see what happens for the most part, though I have been removing my reviews bit-by-bit because I have no doubt that Amazon will be doing something with those. I'm sure that down the road there will be changes -- maybe a fee? rules on reviews? merging our reviews with Amazon? lots of pop-up ads suggesting books? and definitely mining our data! I already noticed that some have "jumped ship" by deleting their accounts and I think others may have just left. (Have you noticed that your groups are quieter? I have. )

LynnB wrote: "maybe a fee? rules on reviews? merging our reviews with Amazon? lots of pop-up ads suggesting books? and definitely mining our data!"

Here's my take on this:

Fee - Definitely not. There are few sites that survive with a pay model. So unless Amazon wants to destroy GR, they won't do that.

Rules on reviews - This is my biggest concern. Again, if they want the site to keep growing, they wouldn't change what made it popular in the first place but who knows what are Amazon's plans.

Merging our reviews with Amazon - They may do this. After all, GR reviews show up in Kobo and other places, but they are clearly marked as GR reviews.

However, there's a way to opt-out of that. I have mine disabled so my reviews only show up here. I'm not sure if they show up in Google though.

Pop-up ads suggesting books - I don't expect pop-up ads (those are easy to disable) but I would expect that the 'recommendation' engine' may be more intrusive. So instead of showing you a link to get to your recommendations - see how that's the first thing underneath your picture in the home page - they may show up a couple of recommended books instead.

Mining our data! As you say, that's a definite! Maybe they will monitor Indie authors that seem to be up and coming and offer contracts and stuff. Maybe tie offers to recommended books, etc.

LynnB wrote: "I'm waiting to see what happens for the most part, though I have been removing my reviews bit-by-bit because I have no doubt that Amazon will be doing something with those. I'm sure that down the ..."

When you remove your reviews, are you keeping a copy of them, or posting them at another site, or just letting go of them? I like being able to go back and remind myself by re-reading my own reviews.

D.G. wrote: "However, there's a way to opt-out of that. I have mine disabled so my reviews only show up here."

How/where do you do the disabling?

D.G. wrote: "I don't expect pop-up ads (those are easy to disable)."

Same question -- how do you disable them? I haven't used a pop-up blocker before, since I figured the revenue from ads was supporting Goodreads (or whatever other site I was on), which I thought was a good cause. But I don't need to watch pop-up ads that benefit Amazon.

D.G. wrote: "LynnB wrote: "maybe a fee? rules on reviews? merging our reviews with Amazon? lots of pop-up ads suggesting books? and definitely mining our data!"

Here's my take on this:

Fee - Definitely not. T..."

Great points D.G. I agree that they are not likely to institute a fee. They haven't made Shelfari a fee site, so I would imagine this would be the same. As for Pop up adds for books, Goodreads already does that on your home page and that probably will not change.

As for the data mining, that is a hard one for me. On the one hand, I do not like the idea of data mining. On the other hand, there is so much data mining going on now days, banks, grocery stores, department stores, FB, on line radio sites, Cable TV companies. I guess I have just given up worrying about it. I guess I just figure that they can stalk me all I want, but in the end they can't make me spend the money. But I do agree that is the scariest thing about this, though.

LynnB wrote: "I'm waiting to see what happens for the most part, though I have been removing my reviews bit-by-bit because I have no doubt that Amazon will be doing something with those. I'm sure that down the ..."

Yes, I have, and that is what I am most scared about. Nothing has changed so far, and already people are jumping ship, which is their right, but it is sad to me. I am already missing people and discussions.

Susan wrote: "When you remove your reviews, are you keeping a copy of them, or posting them at another site, or just letting go of them? I like being able to go back and remind myself by re-reading my own reviews."

I like to go back and read my reviews occasionally, but I just decided to give it up totally. I'm giving my books stars for a bit (to let friends get my initial impression), but every now and then I will be deleting the stars, too. I've been removing about 30-50 reviews a week because it's too labor-intensive to remove them all at once. I just don't like my reviews being posted where I have no control. I didn't realize Kobo (and maybe others?) were already using them, but all the more reason to delete them. I understand the sale to Amazon is to happen at the end of the 2Q (end of June).

you can opt out to not share your reviews - it is one of the options in your profile - and that way kobo etc aren't allowed to show them

D.G. wrote: "Fee - Definitely not. There are few sites that survive with a pay model. So unless Amazon wants to destroy GR, they won't do that."

I understand they own all or part of Librarything, which has a fee after a certain number of books are shelved. And I don't think Amazon has any hesitation at destroying anything as long as Amazon itself is okay.

LynnB - I will miss your reviews. I enjoyed reading them. :(

Amazon owns Abebooks, which has a share in LibraryThing - I think it is about 40% - but it was a paid model (from my understanding) before they even got involved in it - and the owner of LT has made it perfectly clear that he will retain majority rights to the site

I'm not even looking at them, because they deleted a friends account (who had had an account for several years) because they deemed one of her shelves to be a "hit list" of authors they won't read and you are apparently not allowed to use LT that way

Dee wrote: "I'm not even looking at them, because they deleted a friends account (who had had an account for several years) because they deemed one of her shelves to be a "hit list" of authors they won't read and you are apparently not allowed to use LT that way"

What?!

Lyn M wrote: "LynnB - I will miss your reviews. I enjoyed reading them. :("

Thanks Lyn M!

yeah - she lost her account because they viewed her never-read list that she migrated over to LT as a "hit list" on goodreads and deleted her account

ETA: this is the email she got

"It's been brought to our attention that some of your cataloging on
LibraryThing has not been compatible with our Terms of Use.

Our Terms of Use make it clear that LibraryThing is for books you have
a "connection" to (eg., own or have read), and prohibit the misuse of
site features. By their very nature your use of
"never" involves books you don't have a
connection to. We (ie., myself, Jeremy, Abby and ChrisH) also believe
that aggressively tagging your disinterest in reading every book by
from a list of authors—matching what can only be described as a "hit
list" on Goodreads—qualifies as such abuse.

Sincerely,
Tim Spalding

For a while my husband has been saying that privacy is dead. Unless you want to give up using computers altogether, there's no way to avoid giving some personal information.

To avoid ads, I use an extension called 'AdBlock' (I think it only works in Firefox and Chrome not IE.)

To avoid your reviews showing up anywhere but GR, go to your profile and click the 'settings' tab. In the section: "Who can view my profile", I have it set to GR members and that immediately disables search engines and other partners to see my reviews.

Dee wrote: "aggressively tagging your disinterest in reading every book by
from a list of authors—matching what can only be described as a "hit
list" on Goodreads—qualifies as such abuse."

This email tells you right away where these people are getting their revenue.

Thanks for sharing, Dee. I'm definitely NOT checking that place either.

I use Adblock, too, D.G. and it works really well.

D.G. wrote: "To avoid ads, I use an extension called 'AdBlock' (I think it only works in Firefox and Chrome not IE.)

To avoid your reviews showing up anywhere but GR, go to your profile and click the 'settings' tab. In the section: "Who can view my profile", I have it set to GR members and that immediately disables search engines and other partners to see my reviews. "

Thanks!

Sherri wrote: "I thought booklikes.com looked good until I tried to visit a book's info page. If I wanted to read the full synopsis, I had to click a "read more" link which took me to Amazon. Bah."

You can set your search engine to another site. Yes, they do work a lot with Amazon, but they also use Google, Book Depository and one other at least for the U.S. And they are an independent site still in beta.

If you want a funny take-off on the Goodreads/Amazon thing, here's something to look at this: you tube

LynnB wrote: "If you want a funny take-off on the Goodreads/Amazon thing, here's something to look at this: you tube"

Funny!
But I didn't quite get the last couple seconds.

Susan wrote: "Funny!
But I didn't quite get the last couple seconds."

Me either, but the first 95% was funny.

I'm staying until I see that my groups are gone or changes that I cannot accept. So, that means I am here at least until the end of June. I will still read my books and participate in challenges. I wanted to catch up my reviews (one of my goals) but I will have to think about that. Maybe if I can limit them to GR. I have not minded a google search of them but I draw the line at helping a bookseller sell the book by having my review mined without my OK. Since I do not often use the GR recommends...and since when I visit Amazon I am used to getting books suggested, I do not think that will bother me much.

Overall...I am a wait and see kinda gal.

LynnB wrote: "Susan wrote: "Funny!
But I didn't quite get the last couple seconds."

Me either, but the first 95% was funny."

Susan wrote: "LynnB wrote: "If you want a funny take-off on the Goodreads/Amazon thing, here's something to look at this: you tube"

Funny!
But I didn't quite get the last couple seconds."

Sounds like a nod to the movie Soylent Green, which is very loosely based on the book Make Room! Make Room!.

I just joined and like this place. I hope things don't change for the worst as it always happens with such things. I will stay until I don't like it anymore.

I just got an email from GR that appears to be an ad sponsored by B&N and others! This is exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen with Amazon. I didn't realize it was already a possibility with other booksellers.

It's apparently called "the read now available email on Goodreads," and it IS possible to unsubscribe from it, which I've just done. But I wonder if I subscribed to it at some point without knowing it, or if it's another one of those things where you're in unless you ask to be out.

Susan wrote: "I just got an email from GR that appears to be an ad sponsored by B&N and others! This is exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen with Amazon. I didn't realize it was already a possibility with other ..."

In your settings, under "emails" do you have it selected for GR to send you an email when books on your "to-read" become available? If so, that could be what that email was. Or you might not have it selected now, since you unsubscribed. I don't think that is a new setting, though, I think I remember that from before Amazon acquired GR.

Suzanne wrote: "Susan wrote: "I just got an email from GR that appears to be an ad sponsored by B&N and others! This is exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen with Amazon. I didn't realize it was already a possibili..."

Actually, Amazon hasn't even acquired Goodreads yet. The acauisition doesn't happen until the end of June, so any changes you see at this point are all on Goodreads management. Although I think you are right, I think this opt in/out has been around for a while.

Lyn M (readinghearts) wrote: "Suzanne wrote: "Susan wrote: "I just got an email from GR that appears to be an ad sponsored by B&N and others! This is exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen with Amazon. I didn't realize it was alr..."

Ah, okay :) I haven't thought much about the whole thing lately, so I forgot when it was all going to go down. I thought it was already done :) It's good to know we've got a bit longer to go with GR as usual. :)