Gardener's Group discussion

Here's their blog post about it: http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/41...

I'm not sure how I feel about it, but my initial reaction wasn't "Yay!"

Here are more links:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/bus...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffberco...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogero...
http://www.shelf-awareness.com/issue....

My take on it from reading those and other links is essentially that Otis new role as employee of Amazon is to grow the international database, book and member of GR. GR will be under the direction of the head of the Kindle division of Amazon by the sound of it.

Essentially, Amazon want to kill print books and traditional publishing and move everything to ebooks, mainly the Kindle. So far, they have killed off Borders, innumerable small chains and indie bookshops. The war is now between Apple, Barnes & Noble and Amazon for ebook domination.

Ebooks are important to Amazon for several reasons.

1. They cannot be loaned, copied, swapped or resold (except in very, very limited circumstances). Therefore each reader is a buyer. Not sure what accommodation they will make in the future for libraries.

2. Traditional publishing is expensive and employs a lot of people. Ebook publishing is extremely cheap and the author quite often has to bear all the costs. Kindle books aren't necessarily cheaper than print books, but the profits are phenomenally higher. The publishing company (Amazon), the distributor (Amazon) and the media-reader (Amazon) all benefit greatly from this. The author will also benefit more if he can do sufficient influential marketing (which costs) that a traditional publishing company would have been responsible for.

3. Distribution costs. Amazon already has great restrictions on the books it publishes. They cannot be sold on Ingram which is the world's largest distributor of English language books or any other distributor. Amazon also buys from Ingram. But by establishing the Kindle, ebooks, as the main way to read books, they get to cut out the middleman.

The more people they can cut out in the reading chain, the bookshops, the publishers, the distributors, the more Amazon get to call the shots and keep the profits.

4. Otis new job of developing the international market is to spread the Kindle to the major book markets around the world which can be serviced from any State or country that will allow them to get away with not paying taxes. Since Kindle is distributed over the internet, they can base themselves anywhere.

Very soon there will be a GR/Kindle app, 'special' offers for Kindles and books for GR members, the advertising will of course only be where Amazon will derive profit and Amazon itself will display prominent links to GR.

I could be wrong, I'm rather a specialist in that, in fact I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

LibraryThing (40% owned by Amazon) are delighted - they think they will get a lot of new members. They might.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/152033

Shelfari is owned by Amazon. LibraryThing is owned partially by Amazon. Now goodreads is owned by Amazon. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not a fan of this monopoly. (And knowing LibraryThing has anything to do with Amazon doesn't make me want to head over there!)

Petra X wrote: "My take on it from reading those and other links is essentially that Otis new role as employee of Amazon is to grow the international database, book and member of GR. GR will be under the direction..."

My emotional reaction - I hate Kindle, and dislike the idea of there attempted monopoly of the business - now GReads? I may move to Shelfari though I'd really miss everyone. Kindle doesn't support downloading from Canadian libraries (the same holds true for the UK, last time I checked anyway) and have no intension of implementing it - I've had quite a bit of discussion with Kindle customer support about it (good friend of mine - pensioner - bought a Kindle by mistake)- dismissive / could care less. Kindle has a large customer base in Canada and this non-support is in the fine print. Thankfully I researched ereaders before buying and bought a Sony instead. The ability to download ebooks from libraries was core to my decision not to purchase a Kindle.

Shelfari is owned by Amazon!!!

Jo wrote: "I'm not sure how I feel about it, but my initial reaction wasn't "Yay!"

Here are more links:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/bus...
http://www.forbes.c..."

Okay, so I see Shelfari is already owned by Amazon. Thanks for the post.

I'm not an e-reader fan. I don't own one, I don't want one. Period!

Jo wrote: "I'm not an e-reader fan. I don't own one, I don't want one. Period!"

I fought it for years then weakened - the convenience in the winter of downloading books.... Hear you though Jo - still far prefer a book in hand.

I'm very, passionate about it, if you will lol! That and I've literally no desire for another tech gadget when I love an actual book in hand so much!

If anyone has any recommendations for book review sites - similar to Goodreads, I don't care if it's small - that aren't owned by Amazon, I'd appreciate it.

If i were the owner/shareholder in Amazon I would be delighted - as a book lover - and antique, I don't like the idea at all. but then i am quaint, loving culture more than a bank balance.

Shares of Seattle-based Amazon closed up $1.19 at $266.49. Nothing earth-shattering by Harvey's is right - just day one.

LibraryThing have offered Goodreads free membership for a year, but the owner's message on the Goodreads-Amazon thread is really underwhelming if it is meant to be a welcome mat.

"This is the way I like it—I find Goodreads too pushy on the social side, too cavalier about user data, and culturally and intellectually inferior. So I want to be unlike them. But it's also good business practices. If you want a ham sandwich, Goodreads will give you one. We need to be the site for people who hate ham sandwiches."

The thread continued with the owner replying to various people but even when I asked why he didn't address my concerns, he didn't bother.

Ham sandwiches on Goodreads? Pretty cutting.

"http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/..."

I like books. Real books with covers and pages you actually turn. I like how they smell and how they look on the shelf. I don't think I need an electronic gadget for everything. I don't like monopolies and that's what this thing with Amazon sounds like to me. I know nothing about all the legalities involved and don't want to. I'm afraid more book stores will go out of business, printing companies will fold and all the folks who are involved in that industry will be out of their jobs. What about libraries? Will they become meaningless too?

anyone heard of Riffle? http://l.aunch.us/I521

http://rifflemystery.tumblr.com/about

Lots of pretty pics to move around. It is owned by "Odyl, a social-media driven platform for publishers and authors to grow their audiences on Facebook". So there you have it, it's there to sell books for the big six publishers. There will be major integration with Facebook. They are compared with Instagram and Pinterest on most of the sites that mention Riffle.

Not for me.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

Actually it's a Facebook app... And there isn't a review system in place.

thanks for the info, Petra. i'm disappointed in this too. there's got to be a site just for readers/authors. i'm now on a quest.

Brilliant article on the Amazon buyout of GR, or if not brilliant, one that sums it up for me.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/31/amazo...

Petra X wrote: "Brilliant article on the Amazon buyout of GR, or if not brilliant, one that sums it up for me.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/31/amazo..."

Thanks for posting Petra. I'll share on a discussion group that's following the buyout.

Is it a public group or private one?

Florence wrote: "Petra X wrote: "Brilliant article on the Amazon buyout of GR, or if not brilliant, one that sums it up for me.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/31/amazo......"

It's just a group on goodreads. Quite a few people on it write reviews.

ok

Cheryl S. wrote: "I like books. Real books with covers and pages you actually turn. I like how they smell and how they look on the shelf. I don't think I need an electronic gadget for everything. I don't like mo..."

Cheryl, I don't like monopolies either - and I've always loved libraries. I don't know what I'd do without them.

I thought Goodreads was determined to be utterly independent from Amazon and am not at all happy that what I thought was a growing and independent book club is now another part of an even larger an more influential company. I don't think business monopolies are in the consumers interest- especially when it concerns something so important to our culture as literature!

What is going to happen is, I think, Kindle will be pushed on us in a very major way. And there will be loads of special offers to do with Kindle and the 16M of us (plus anyone they can pull in from Amazon) will be used to destroy the print market.

Print is expensive and there are a lot of people involved. If Amazon can get the authors to do the work (and unless they are major authors) and their own editing and just present Amazon with a file that Amazon can sell directly, Amazon have eff all costs. Since they don't allow books they publish to be distributed elsewhere it will be a case of if you want to read the latest.... you have to get it from Amazon and you have to get it on Kindle.

Amazon are obviously hoping by the acquisition of GR to knock Apple and Barnes&Noble out of the ereader market too.

Look what I just found,

"The acquisition, terms of which Amazon.com did not reveal, will close in the second quarter of this year. Goodreads, founded in 2007, has more than 16m members, who have added more than four books per second to their "want to read" shelves over the past 90 days, according to Amazon. The internet retailer's vice president of Kindle content, Russ Grandinetti, said the two sites "share a passion for reinventing reading".

"Goodreads has helped change how we discover and discuss books and, with Kindle, Amazon has helped expand reading around the world. In addition, both Amazon and Goodreads have helped thousands of authors reach a wider audience and make a better living at their craft. Together we intend to build many new ways to delight readers and authors alike," said Grandinetti, announcing the buy. "

Exactly what I've been saying.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/...

UGH!!!

Petra X wrote: "What is going to happen is, I think, Kindle will be pushed on us in a very major way. And there will be loads of special offers to do with Kindle and the 16M of us (plus anyone they can pull in fro..."

This situation smacks of censorship. Get your reading material from us or you don't get it at all. UGH is right, Jo.

Great article, I really liked Scott Turow's comments "a textbook example of how modern internet monopolies can be built".
And "With its 16 million subscribers, Goodreads could easily have become a competing online bookseller, or played a role in directing buyers to a site other than Amazon. Instead, Amazon has scuttled that potential and also squelched what was fast becoming the go-to venue for online reviews, attracting far more attention than Amazon for those seeking independent assessment and discussion of books.

My favorite thing about Goodreads was that I trusted that the reviews were independent & honest. I don't know what's going to happen now.

I'm looking for a site which has book pages (like here) where you can see a selection of reviews and comment them on. Haven't found one yet. I'm not saying I would move, because I like the social aspect of GR, but I might not keep my booklist or do reviews here if I found that sort of site.

NYTimes today: "The Slow Death of the American Author"
The new, global electronic marketplace is rapidly depleting authors' income streams.

It is the author responsible for all costs in preparing the manuscript from idea through to uploading the file in the correct format. The reward is commission on sales. The costs borne by a publishing company on an editor, copy-editing, and professional PR (to the book industry) are now expenditure for the author. They both were paid commission on books sold. Now the Amazon author does get commission, doesn't need to worry about distribution as Amazon don't allow an author to distribute the book elsewhere. But the Amazon Kindle books are not that much cheaper always than traditional books. So the author is still getting the small commission but Amazon has cut out the middlement and their costs and is taking all that extra profit for itself.

Very difficult for a business to compete with that. Very unfair on authors too.

There goes the neighborhood.

Yep. I had absolutely no idea.

I've got ads ("sponsored books" available at Amazon, at least) when I turn off my ad blocker.

I don't think I've ever even noticed the ads. I've gotten so used to having them on every site that I just block them out.

I guess I need to start watching for the "Buy on Kindle!" button. Think it'll be on every page, or just most of them?

Watch for the 'special offer on Kindle for GR members' and the 'cheap cheap cheapo Kindles for GR members IF you link your accounts with screen name here and real name on Amazon'. Maybe even bigger discounts if you also have your account linked to FB.

Ignore me. I'm just a disgruntled indie bookshop owner.

You and those like you are why I spend at least half of my book dollars at indie bookstores.

Petra X wrote: "Watch for the 'special offer on Kindle for GR members' and the 'cheap cheap cheapo Kindles for GR members IF you link your accounts with screen name here and real name on Amazon'. Maybe even bigger..."

I love my local indie book store and try to support it so it will never go away. I'll never have an e-reader and I hope there are others like me.

I don't think e-readers are the source of all evil. I have one just for trips, because even though I've always chosen to pack books and not clothes for vacations, I still ruined all of my suitcases with books. E-readers let me not go naked, so they're useful.

Nothing beats a real book, though, and nothing beats a real bookstore that doesn't double as a Starbucks.

I don't think e-readers are the enemy. I think Amazon is. I don't like people who spend their lunchtimes in my shop looking at my selection which is far from ordinary (because all the ordinary books are promoted heavily on Amazon or are on display in any library) and seeing things that really interest them, scan in the barcode and order from Amazon or get it on their Kindle. It is cheaper to order books from me than from Amazon because the delivery costs for priority plus a courier's fee (we can't get books sent directly here) are more than I charge, but people hardly ever believe that. Or don't care.

I do not like paying all the bills for my shop and staff to be used as Amazon's shop window and them getting all the profit.

I don't hate Amazon or e-readers - they each work for me when I need them but I visit the book stores in Springfield whenever I can and usually end up purchasing books - can't resist - I am addicted :-) I also go to my library every Tuesday and have for 28 years ( as long as I have lived here) . I prefer real books to e- books but have most of my favorites in my E- library so I can read at night when my husband wants the lights out or want to take them on a trip. I have been reading since I was three. It's one of my biggest pleasures...