Modern Good Reads discussion

World builders, delve into discussions about writing fantasy here--high, dark, other-world, contemporary, you name it. What's it like to be in complete control of the world you build? How do you conceive non-human characters? Anything you like.

I set my fantasy series, Elements of Power, in world which consists of four realms, each linked to one of the four classical elements: fire, water, air and earth. The geography of the realm and the personality of its inhabitants reflects the element their realm is based on.

I had a lot of fun creating the world, putting in lots of quirks like two suns to help with the heat of the fire-based realm.

Two of the things I found slightly trickier though, were food and animals, since I couldn't decide whether to use everyday names or create my own. In the end, the food ended up mostly normal and for the animals I used Latin/Greek variations on names (plus quite a few traditional mythological creatures). I would love to know how other fantasy writers addressed these features.

I combined my fantasy world with the real world. Things that I wanted to see for myself. What would the Greek gods be like if they showed up in Ohio? How would they talk, would they change with the times or would they be stuck in the past. Things I wanted to know and answered in my own way.

Oh I took Mythology and Legend and "turned it on its ear" as my editor said! I love being in control of my world and my characters. I really enjoy stringing together finite connections, but making sure it's all story relevant.

My world that Athine and Zarra live in is kind of like the theory of different dimensions all in the same plane at the same time...only side by side. The N'Loron separates the 12 main realms. In Worlds Collide I started building the mythology for my worlds and it will continue into Cursed Bloods.

I combine fantasy/sci-fi/modern day/future ideas. What other series can you read about vampires, dragons, greek goddesses, made up characters, historical characters, and Atlantis?

I kind of think of it if Xena went to LOTR and some Buffy characters spilled in LOL.

As for the question about naming things...NAME GENERATORS! I especially love this one
http://www.rinkworks.com/namegen/

Yelle wrote: "I combined my fantasy world with the real world. Things that I wanted to see for myself. What would the Greek gods be like if they showed up in Ohio? How would they talk, would they change with the..."

Josephine Angelini's Starcrossed series is like this - the main characters are all descendants from Greek Gods and they've been cursed to hate anyone who doesn't come from the same 'House' as them. The Gods themselves have started to make an appearance in book 2 as well - Ares is particularly crazy.




And that name generator looks great Shannon.

I wanted to combine the 1920s and 30s, art deoc, Norse gods, a decadent royal court, and Jackaroo (which is a really awesome YA novel by Cynthia Voigt). I got Odalnord, the setting for my dieselpunk serial novel, The City Darkens. I really enjoyed this setting, but I found it was very dark and cold, moreso than I would have predicted. I love art deco, and yet in my novel, art deco became a symbol of rising tyranny. It helps that I like art nouveau too, so I contrasted: art nouveau decor symbolized pockets of resistance to the tyranny. I feel sort of bad, though, because I don't mean to condemn art deco! :) It just grew into something beyond what I had planned. After all, I dwelt in this art deco world for 150K words; good thing I do like it.

Heather wrote: "Yelle wrote: "I combined my fantasy world with the real world. Things that I wanted to see for myself. What would the Greek gods be like if they showed up in Ohio? How would they talk, would they c..."

Thanks so much for pointing her out to me Heather! I found her and friended. I love reading books like these, as well as writing them. Mine focuses on the lesser gods, mainly the children and some I even made up.

Sophia wrote: "I wanted to combine the 1920s and 30s, art deoc, Norse gods, a decadent royal court, and Jackaroo (which is a really awesome YA novel by Cynthia Voigt). I got Odalnord, the setting for my dieselpun..."

I forgive you for condemning art deco, I have often felt it should be condemned.

:)

My characters end up being a combination of my favorite entities. First, Greek mythology is my thing and has been since i picked up a book on it in fifth grade. Then, I added to it my own pantheon of gods that predates the olympians but works with them in peace. I brought in some prominent figures from christian tales, mainly the demons. Then the other characters vary from all my favorite fantasy entities: werewolves, vampires, dragons, witches, fairies, demons, and angels.
As for names, a lot of my characters are based off real people. Four of the characters that are most commonly focused on are actually different names of my own. Others are names of my best friends, a couple of family members, and some roleplaying characters I've created over the past decade or so of role playing. Each character I took into account their age and what names might fit the era in which they were born or at least are older names for those that are several thousand years old and modern names for the younger characters.

Creative ideas! I chose to experiment with fantasy without magic, mythical creatures, etc--just a hint of a God subtly manipulating the strings of fate. The culture I focus on is late medieval. The ruling nobility cling to their old traditions and names (all French) while the commoners have evolved with the changing times, taking on traits of low English culture. Their religion is based on Christianity, but their worship is bifurcated between the vengeful God of the Old Testament and the merciful one of the New Testament--each personified by a human Aspect, who the people direct their worship toward. The Aspects have long since departed the human realm but promised to return. This prophecy and its fulfillment is the sole 'supernatural' element of the novel.

I think I gravitate toward Hard Fantasy like this because of my love for history. There are so many amazing, heartbreaking stories scattered throughout our long history, and hearing just a portion of them convinced me that I didn't need werewolves, vampires, dragons or even magic to tell a great story.

Not that I dislike any of those things, of course! Just branching out, is all.

Strange as it may seem, you have to make a fantasy world 'realistic.' Coming up for fancy names for something which is clearly a horse, is an easy trap to fall into.

I chose fantasy because my ideas were too big for any other genre, but that. I loved creating my own world, making up characters that are not always human. It comes so natural for me.

What I love about fantasy and sci-fi is that there are no set boundaries. As long as an idea can be made feasible and readers can relate to it, it's fair game. I love that the possibilities are almost endless.

Jessica wrote: "I chose fantasy because my ideas were too big for any other genre, but that. I loved creating my own world, making up characters that are not always human. It comes so natural for me."

You do need 'discipline' though. In my experience too much freedom in creating your own world can be overwhelming.

D.H. wrote: "What I love about fantasy and sci-fi is that there are no set boundaries. As long as an idea can be made feasible and readers can relate to it, it's fair game. I love that the possibilities are alm..."

I would set some boundaries. You do need an 'anchor' point as it were to fix the story. That's not to say you shouldn't let imagination run riot, but discipline is handy.

That might be another difference between fantasy and sci-fi. Fantasy gives you a lot more room for artistic license--a longer leash. Hence you can have creatures, settings and devices (magic) that doesn't operate according to the laws of reality. Of course there have to be certain boundaries. With magic, especially. In no good fantasy book do you see a wizard who can flippantly decide to rip the entire universe into atoms, for example.

Sci-fi, I think, operates according to more concrete sets of laws--physics namely. The mechanisms of a sci-fi story must be feasible when viewed through a a modern lens. Space travel--ships can't just teleport to the complete opposite end of the universe on a whim; it's up to the author to come up with a logical explanation for faster-than-light travel. While reading a sci-fi story, a reasonable person should be able to nod and go, "Right, something like that could actually happen."

As opposed to fantasy, where if a fan starts to say, "Oh dragons and vampires are totally real!" they might need professional help.

I agree with you about the anchor point, R.M.F. Without it, a person can't fully immerse themselves into the world you've created. They still need to be able to see themselves in that world, through the eyes of the characters. So that's an excellent point.

I also believe that once this is done, a writer has endless possibilities before them. That's the beauty of fantasy, as Thomas mentioned. Sci-fi needs to be too far grounded in what is feasible through future technology and the laws of the universe we live in to have the same creative freedom fantasy enjoys.

And Thomas, are you telling me dragons and vampires aren't real??? *gasp*

I've tried to paint a picture of everyday life in various parts of my fantasy world, Termag. That includes things like bedtime stories, fables, folk tales, and so on. I haven't really given much thought to music just yet, except for snatches of song lyrics. I've posted some of these stories on my blog as #FridayFlash, or #TuesdaySerial when they run long.

Another thing I'm working on is a creation mythos. It's very much UNlike Tolkien's :-) and pays homage to the importance of rivers in early stages of civilization. But again, it speaks more of everyday life rather than setting the stage for epic battles. I've found that even when these touches aren't included in the story, they still add depth by being in the background.

There is some really interesting discussion going on here. Keep it up. It's really a joy to see authors talking with one another about writing, especially in my genre. Thank you all for your participation.

Thanks for the replies. I'm no expert, but in my opinion, fantasy worlds/characters etc have to be 'realistic' if that makes sense? You have to believe that people could live in these settings/exist etc

The fantasy world for my book was basically set in this one. Mine is based off the idea that other books and TV shows have used in the sense that there are two Realms: the ones Mortals live in, and the ones witches, warlocks, and familiars live in. The Other Realm and the Mortal Realm are connected, but while the Mortal Realm, at least at the start of my books, has no known worlds connected to it, the Other Realm has many. Some of the worlds include: The World of Mythological Creatures, which is where creatures such as dragons, unicorns, griffins, and more live. There is also a World of Dogs, that has nothing but dogs, some of which are predators, and others of which are prey, just as it is in the natural world.
In most of the books in my series, the witches I focus on are living in the Mortal Realm. Because of this there are many rules about how and when magic can be used, not that my witches always follow them. My witches, most of the time, are just humans with magical abilities, which is how they easily fit into the Mortal Realm.
Most of the animals in my books are familiars, or talking animals that teach magic. The animals act like any other of their species when not teaching magic or around nothing but witches and warlocks.
I have created some Other Realm specific creatures, and other worlds in which I needed to figure out the animals habits, looks, where they would live, as well as what their natural enemies are or if they are top predators. Some of these creatures, such as a dog species called the Wild Beagle, is a small dog breed that hunts smaller dogs in a pack. They are prey to larger dog species. Much of their behaviors are based on how Beagle's usually act when hunting with humans as well as a little bit based on wolf behavior.
Most recently I began adding the dimension theory into the final books in the series, which has been a little harder to keep realistic. I also have one of my witches on a space adventure to a distant planet. I tried to make the planet to be a little like Earth, with some visibly small changes, such as two tailed squirrels.
In another story I have been working on, for the series, I have been working on something about the history of dragons and unicorns that is about how, when, and why, these animals have a part in Mortal Realm history, which is told by a dragon I created back in my first book. This one has been a little harder than I thought it would be because it actually requires a little research.
I really love to write fantasy because, although it needs to be realistic feeling, there are no rules as to what is in it, and I also really love creating all new creatures and worlds where I can create anything I want, even though this does require a lot of thinking on how everything works to keep it realistic feeling.

Although I write romance, my books also have elements of fantasy, in that my characters are Greek gods and selkies and shifters. They all take place in the modern world, but I like to intersperse elements from the old myths, and twist those myths a little bit too. I think world-building can be a fascinating exercise, and if I've learned one thing, it's that you have to do your research. Every element of that world must be plotted in your head, from what sort of toothpaste the characters use to what sorts of pets they have to how they make love. How do they swear and curse when they are angry? How to express affection? Do they touch as we touch, or do they use their minds? I love being in charge of my worlds and find it so much more interesting than writing in my own world. :)

The fantasy characters and races in The Apprentice and other books I am working on for The World of Anduan are primarily based on earth with a twist of magic. The pretense being that earth became uninhabitable at one point in the past and people boarded space ships in cryosleep, later crashlanding on the planet of Anduan.

As history repeats itself on this world, it is again repeating itself on Anduan from the POV loss of technology. This sets up a sword and sorcery world for me to write in while grounding it back to earth.

I prefer my fantasy light. A magic bracelet, a girl who can see auras, crystals maybe, a unihorn; those are enough. I enjoyed the Twilight series, and I like LOTR and Harry Potter, but too many fantasies use too many powerful creatures. Unless there is an incredibly complex background like Tolkien's, those fantasies are confusing.

Heather wrote: "I set my fantasy series, Elements of Power, in world which consists of four realms, each linked to one of the four classical elements: fire, water, air and earth. The geography of the realm and the..."

Hi Heather. When I read fantasy, my pet peeves are names I can't pronounce or barely tell apart and common items renamed so I don't what they are. If it's bread, call it bread. If it's a dog, call it a dog. It's the environment, the culture and the way your character behaves inside the two that tells the reader this is a different world, not funky names. Anything you rename, you have to explain and you don't want to sound like an alternate world dictionary. I create names for animals or things that I make up or modify.

I think it matters also whether your main character or POV character is native to the culture. If they're not at home, that's a way you can bring in language differences (renaming) and be able to define the words without it getting awkward.

I have to agree with Lisa. Renaming every character and creature with complicated names the I would probably mispronounce in the real world is more distracting than unique.

I enjoy light fantasy, but Tolkien's work is amazing. The simple fact that he is so detailed in creating his worlds (he even draws maps) and can hold the construct together through an entire series with astonishing attention to detail is phenomenal. To me is it witnessing something beautiful in the garden of someone else's imagination!

When authors fail to keep the details of their world consistent or clear, I tend to get bogged down or lose interest.

Belly wrote: "When I see long names with apostrophes and dashes in fantasy novels, or a glossary of terms, or a guide to pronunciation, I'm instantly turned off. Too many made-up names and terms are distracting...."

If the pronunciations become too difficult to figure out, especially as I'm reading along and they're threatening to break me out of the story, I make up my own pronunciations.

Belly wrote: "Scott, I do that, too."

Great minds think alike! :-)

The nice thing about sci fi is that you can build on the existing world without explaining every term or historical reference. In fantasy (excluding perhaps modern/urban fantasy) you need to pepper in some unfamilar and exotic stuff with the mundane and find a non-expositional way to provide context to the reader.

Also, the tricky thing with tricky names is that it's all in the eye of the beholder. What might be a tongue-tying pronunciation for one person may seem pretty mundane for another, depending where he/she is from or what language/dialect she/he speaks. Knowing that you can't please everyone's "ear" all the time, establish your linguistic rules and just be consistent. Then, at the very least, readers can adjust to the rules and figure out that the "g" followed by an "n" is silent, for example.

I wholeheartedly endorse the "make up your own" rule if there's any doubt. I want to give every story the best chance of being my next favorite, and funny names are less likely to throw me out of the story than bad editing or thin characterizations.

When I began writing I had always found the middle ages interesting. I wrote my book loosely based in a fictional medieval cities. I wanted to create a fictional war that revolved around deception and trickery. So Paroxysm was born.

Joshua wrote: "When I began writing I had always found the middle ages interesting. "

You remind me of me! I planned on setting my fantasy novels in the middle ages...I obsessively outlined every book on my high school shelves, but unlike you I never actually used the knowledge...

If I were to write a middle ages story I would set it on the east side of the upper Rhine in the 500's.

Although Cervantes brilliantly exploded the myth, the hundreds of years of knightly writing was all about impossible human beings doing honourable things.

The myths and legends around the world are object lessons and warnings as well as description of the powerlessness of human beings. The god myths we still ascribe to have us at their centre because we seem so lost in chaos in the universe.

Fantasy at one level cements good and evil as being outside of us, not part of our nature. Where it is part of our nature it gives reasons for it. It extols virtues, they don't always win they often are hurt but at least they exist.

But importantly fantasy also gives us the chance to change things, that one person can make a difference. In everyday life we are swamped by the enormity of the challenges and retreat to our own family and community because we cannot influence the wider world.

Most importantly we identify with one or more of the characters. We want to walk with them. We yearn for the difference they represent.

and then we become adults :)

Fascinating insight here. I choose to place my fantasy alongside the humans on earth, but it spans 1880 - 1920 which allows for some separation from the modern ear. The story is told by non-humans. First a troll, then a dragon, and finally an elemental, all seeing the same set of extraordinary circumstances with their own prejudices. My challenge and privilege was to craft trolls and dragons in an new and hopefully interesting way.

I sprinkle in a family of humans to ground the reader. Only two humans can see my characters (although others catch glimpses but explain them away). The reader learns the humans see only what they expect to see.

My magic has tight rules, and I have no plans to break them. That feels like cheating.

As for names, I used Norwegian words for the older trolls, but they adapted to a new world after a harrowing event, and they now use English words for names. It was a mechanism to show growth and acceptance. The dragons have a naming convention tightly tied to their clan, one bird-like and the other sea dragons. While the elementals are named in association with their element.

I am currently in the dreaming phase of the final book where everything is possible, and yes, much if will be tossed as the structure falls into place, but world building is addictive. I can't imagine limiting myself to reality.

I have delved into sci-fi (or perhaps sy-fy would be a better term to use) to create a new world for my trilogy. A lot of it takes place on another planet. It was wonderful to be able to spend time creating the world, what it looked like, how the people spent their times, the different class systems involved and how the two different races who lived there were treated and the difference social statuses they could maintain depending on which race they belonged to. It was an interesting experience, especially when viewed from the eyes of a newcomer who saw problems in the way some people were treated which natives to the planet could not see because they were used to it being that way.

My own experience of world building and writing fantasy is still developing. I've written two fantasy books so far (Haldred Chronicles) and am working on my third.

I think my world fits into high fantasy with elements of steam punk. The world is in a post war state, something which is of particular interest to me; I live in Northern Ireland, a country that is itself now in a 'post war' peaceful state.

Humanity is the main race, as usual, though it's various factions are also mainly responsible for the war. The main plot concerns peace keepers, who are attempting to stop any who would restart the war.

The stories are primarily mystery and detective style in approach, with plenty of humour and action thrown in. Politics and deception play a big part likewise.

It's very much still a work in progress; the many elements of the world are still being revealed book by book but I have a lot of ideas and plenty of scope. I'll keep it going!

It's so interesting how our own experiences seem to color or world building. We all live in this world (I think) but we all sense the world through different ports of entry. In fantasy, all is possible.

I know it's very old, but this is an fascinating thread. I've always loved world building, creating cultures and lands as behind the scenes information for a whole new world. It's made me realise my recently published novel has quite a odd world build structure in that it's essentially two worlds built into one - a conventional, even cliched (deliberately!) fantasy realm and a behind-the-scenes realm with its own different rules and structures that I had to keep detailed notes to make sure I properly adhered to! It was a very different way to play but very good fun. But I do still love the traditional fantasy world building and seeing the imagination that goes into a new author's creating of their new lands. :)