The Thomas Mann Group discussion

Please be careful with spoilers, particularly with those that are not to be revealed in the discussion of the week.

As for the spoilers that will be revealed during a given week, try not to include them at the beginning of the week.

We are assuming that the reading is a continuous process during those seven days, so it is recommended not to reveal aspects of the plot during the first days.

Thank you to everyone.

FYI, clicking on "some html is ok" right up there above the text box will take you to a list of possible HTML coding. You can insert spoiler tags to hide text - you can hide as little or as much text as you want.

Hey everyone!!

I probably am not the only one who has read the book before and while I am looking forward rereading and discussing the book bit by bit, I am also (and maybe even more) anxious to discuss Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family in general terms. However, doing so, will by necessity end up containing spoilers, so I was wondering if alongside the chapter by chapter discussions (which are to contain no spoilers), we might also have a general book discussion thread where spoilers are acceptable, even welcome. Of course, this thread should be clearly designated as containing potential spoilers so that those who really do not want any spoilers while reading the book know not to read the general discussion thread on Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family until after they have finished the book. But from personal reading experiences with the book, I have found that reading general discussions on the book, on its themes, its motifs etc. helps with understanding the plot, the characterisations (and even spoilers can actually be of benefit). So, what do other members (and especially Kris and Kalliope, the moderators) think of perhaps having a general discussion thread where spoilers are allowed alongside of the week-by-week discussions?

Gundula wrote: "Hey everyone!!

I probably am not the only one who has read the book before and while I am looking forward rereading and discussing the book bit by bit, I am also (and maybe even more) anxious to d..."

We could have a Lounge for General Discussions. There is one a very general Group Lounge in the Proust group.

This Thread can be avoided by those who do not want to encounter spoilers, but then be visited at the end of the read because it would contain a very interesting discussion.

Let's see what Kris says, and if she agrees, we can create this Lounge.

Kalliope wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Hey everyone!!

I probably am not the only one who has read the book before and while I am looking forward rereading and discussing the book bit by bit, I am also (and maybe even mo..."

I would definitely like that because much of what I have to post and discuss about the novel is very general in nature and will likely contain spoilers (I will, of course, also be posting in the week by week threads but having read the book before, I also would like to have a place where I can discuss/post without having to avoid potential spoilers).

Gundula wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Hey everyone!!

I probably am not the only one who has read the book before and while I am looking forward rereading and discussing the book bit by bit, I am also (..."

I think it is very good idea, and eventually we would all benefit from it. But let's wait for Kris to give her opinion or if she has another suggestion.

Sorry I missed this discussion.... end of semester craziness. I agree that a Lounge for general discussions (no spoilers), and then this thread for general discussions with spoilers galore would be a good solution.

Kris, I created the Thread that Gundula was suggesting. So, apart from the Lounge we have in the section with weekly threads one dedicated to Thematic Discussions.

This thread is for those who are using a second (or 3rd, or 4th..) reading to get deeper into the book, so it is advised for first time readers (like myself) not to visit it until they have finished the book. But it will be very rewarding to do so then, since I think we have many Mann experts in the group.

Kalliope wrote: "Kris, I created the Thread that Gundula was suggesting. So, apart from the Lounge we have in the section with weekly threads one dedicated to Thematic Discussions.

This thread is for those who ..."

But you can also visit the general discussion thread if you are a first-time reader of the book (just be advised that there will be definitely be spoilers).

Gundula wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Kris, I created the Thread that Gundula was suggesting. So, apart from the Lounge we have in the section with weekly threads one dedicated to Thematic Discussions.

This thread ..."

Of course everyone is free to visit what they wish, except that it is not advisable to have a parallel discussion. In the Proust group we had a parallel one for those readers who are reading it in the original, and it just does not work having two discussions running. We all moved to the main group thread, with quotes included in either French or English or both. In that group we have many Proust-veterans who are respecting first readers admirably. And that is a full-year project.

So my advice for this Read is that we all keep to the calendar, respect spoilers until they belong to that week’s section, and that only general themes are discussed in that auxiliary thread.

I just read this a few weeks ago, so I don't plan on reading it again right now, but I am looking forward to following the discussion. Thomas Mann has been in my mind lately after reading some disparaging comments about him by Vladimir Nabokov in one of his essays. It irked me almost as mush as comments that he made in another essay about Dostoyevsky.

I have great appreciation for Thomas Mann.

William wrote: "I just read this a few weeks ago, so I don't plan on reading it again right now, but I am looking forward to following the discussion. Thomas Mann has been in my mind lately after reading some disp..."

Welcome William, and yes, do follow the discussion and feel free to contribute.

This group may continue with more Mann readings later on. Magic Mountain and Dr Faustus are in the horizon.

I'm now confused. The "Lounge" will contain spoilers, or no spoilers? Can you link to the "Lounge"? I see one thread that has "(**spoilers)" in the heading. Perhaps the threads that are not supposed to contain spoilers should have that warning in the heading?

Unless we use the HTML for spoilers, of course - which is so much easier than having parallel threads. Do people know how to do the spoiler HTML? It's very easy.

Lobstergirl wrote: "I'm now confused. The "Lounge" will contain spoilers, or no spoilers? Can you link to the "Lounge"? I see one thread that has "(**spoilers)" in the heading. Perhaps the threads that are not sup..."

In general it is advised that spoilers be flagged. It is easy to do and the instructions are provided in the "Some html is ok" link in GR.

The Lounge is the thread for general postings and for creating a sense of community. Spoiler rules are more relaxed there.

The most important is that the weekly reading schedule is respected and only what is revealed during that week's reading is discussed openly.

At Gundula's request we have opened one additional thread for Thematic discussions but from my experience in Group Reads that we want to keep One major single discussion going. Themes can be still underlined when they first appear without giving clues as to what happens later. For example an experienced reader may want to draw attention to the importance of colors, or Father-Son relationships or whatever..., when they first come up so that we all become more alert.

This Thematic Discussion has been moved into a separate Folder, and the Folder with the Weekly Discussion has the No Spoilers tag for all the Threads in that Folder.

As I'm reading I've noted the chapters are parcelled up very well (you can tell Mann was first a short story writer). Has this ever been made into a TV series, I can imagine it looking like The Pallisers or the Forsyte Saga.

Yes. There are at least two filmed versions.

I like the short chapters. It makes it mentally easier.

Lobstergirl wrote: "I like the short chapters. It makes it mentally easier."

I agree. It makes the book flow and gives the feeling of moving swiftly along in spite of the hundreds of remaining pages.

In other words, it gives you the will to live....

Kalliope wrote: "Yes. There are at least two filmed versions."

And one of them is a multi-episode mini-series.

I don't know about others, but I have noticed quite a few similarities between Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family and Brideshead Revisited.

Apparently the most influential or inspirational work in the writing of Buddenbrooks was Renée Mauperin by the Goncourt brothers.

Lobstergirl wrote: "In other words, it gives you the will to live...."

indeed!!

I love the short chapters!

Out of the frying pan into the fire! Or maybe the other way around... I'm coming to this group read from another group read of another multi-generational saga– the exquisite One Hundred Years of Solitude- in a way,the thematic continuation will help me understand how two vastly different writers handle somewhat similar themes,on the other hand,it could all get a bit overwhelming...
Anyways,I was wondering why is it always that a family goes from bad to worse,why can't it be the other way around– from good to better to best? The theory of evolution/progress would support that,no? That every coming generation shd be an improvement on the preceeding one?
Interestingly,in his famous story The Immortals,Borges showed a civilization so perfect & advanced that it descends into savagery!
Are there any happy multi-generational sagas around or is it always gloom & doom?

Maybe it is gloom and doom so we can a) gloat b) ________.

Mala wrote: "Out of the frying pan into the fire! Or maybe the other way around... I'm coming to this group read from another group read of another multi-generational saga– the exquisite One Hundred Years of So..."

I think that you could argue that Wuthering Heights ends on a positive note, although I haven't read it in forty years so my memory might be playing tricks on me.

And I read it 20 yrs ago! There was a resolution at the end,in keeping with the sombre,melancholy tone of the book but yes (view spoiler)[ compared to Buddenbrook,I'll call that one a happy ending! (hide spoiler)]