Fantasy Aficionados discussion

I have always wanted to tackle these two series. I'm just not sure which to dive into first. Any suggestions?

Try a different one? ;)

It's hard to recommend either, even if you like them to begin with, by the umpteenth book you want to shake some sense into the characters and tell the authors to get the plot moving.

But I'll recommend the wheel of time because my father was a huge fan. I read up to book 7, before I gave up and decided to wait for the series to be complete.

It's complete now. ;) I know it's popular to rag on the series and all, but there are hundreds of thousands of people who read and loved these books, so they must do something right for some people.

I really like the Wheel of Time. It also has the bonus over Sword of Truth of not devolving into a thinly veiled authorial rant on politics.

Agree with Kevin. Hands down, WoT. Sword of Truth starts out good, but becomes a wordy mess (and I've only read three of them).

KevinB wrote: "It's complete now. ;) I know it's popular to rag on the series and all, but there are hundreds of thousands of people who read and loved these books, so they must do something right for some people..."

I think WoT was a huge sprawling epic fantasy at a time when there was a huge demand for it, and not a lot of other options. It was world-building and series-building you could get lost in. However, the plot becomes repetitive (I gave up book 6 or 7), and I feel like the characterization was insulting as a female reader. Now it just feels dated. I feel like they are one of those things you might want to try to say you've read them, or to understand fantasy history/cannon, but there really are a lot of excellent books out there, and if reading time is limited, why bother?

The first SoT book was OK. I got through 1 1/2 books of WoT.

If those are the only choices, I'd go WoT. but if you want big epics I'd rather tackle GRR Martin.

Better yet, shorter books generally, but plenty of great stories: http://www.goodreads.com/series/40334...

& http://www.goodreads.com/series/41289...

I'd go with WoT also.
But I have read both series and was entertained by both of them.

I'll cause some people to see red here also but.... I think you can read the first 6 or 7 books of the Wheel of Time and then just skip to the last volume. There is enough synopsis to fill you in on anything you missed. What you largely miss is a lot of the same conversations and situations over and over with each event discussed ad nauseum from every possible point of view by each different character and group of characters. I've always said that the first 5 or 6 volumes are some of the best fantasy ever written. It just bogged down after that to the point a lot of readers found it almost unreadable.

Just my thought on it. I agree on Sword of Truth. It starts out well for the first few volumes and slowly the volumes become more and more only a platform for the author to spout his philosophical views.

Have you tried David Eddings' Belgariad series? It's pure fun. It doesn't have the long, dark prose of WoT, but that's what I like about it. It's has its flaws, sure, but it really is fun.

I've read the entire series of WoT. I agree that the plot became mired. There are descriptions repeated verbatim from one book to the next and so much rehashing. However, I pushed through because I get rather attached to characters and have too see them through to the end. Also, you can feel the fresh air when Sanderson picks up. I like him a lot as an author. Glad he completed the series.

R.A. wrote: "Have you tried David Eddings' Belgariad series? It's pure fun. It doesn't have the long, dark prose of WoT, but that's what I like about it. It's has its flaws, sure, but it really is fun."

I really like that series.

At the series level, SoT really can't compare to WoT, IMO. However, Wizard's First Rule is one of the best book 1s I've read. Easily as good as any single volume in WoT, although I have a huge soft spot for WoT #3 and #4.

However, the real reason I'd recommend WoT is for the audiobooks. The narration pair of Michael Kramer and Kate Reading are just about the best in the business. I massively enjoyed listening to all of the books, even the 33-40 hour ones! If you like audiobooks, you owe it to yourself to listen to WoT.

I can't really vouch for either. I only read the first WoT book before my friends talked me out of it. Apparently it gets very slow and bloated. SoT was ok for a few books, but Goodkind went off the deep end and just started philibustering.

R.A. wrote: "Have you tried David Eddings' Belgariad series? It's pure fun. It doesn't have the long, dark prose of WoT, but that's what I like about it. It's has its flaws, sure, but it really is fun."

I really enjoyed all of David Eddings's books. They are very entertaining. Beyind that I would totally got with WoT.

I've only just started reading WoT, and haven't touched SoT, so I don't know that I can recommend either one at the moment. But The Eye of the World has captured my attention. I would at least recommend what I've read of that one so far. Which is, well...about halfway. Anyway, it's good, lol.

Isn't SoT Terry Goodkind? I heard he wasn't that great of an author and his villains are taken to the extreme.

Ronald wrote: "Isn't SoT Terry Goodkind? I heard he wasn't that great of an author and his villains are taken to the extreme."

Yes, and pretty much. Heh..

Read the first three in WoT; you'll be happy you did. I've read each of those 3 times now. I also liked the first 2 to 3 in SoT, but I agree he goes off the rails a bit after that, and I didn't read anymore after book 5. Never regreted it either.

Well, if you're into torture scenes, I'd say go for Goodkind... someone didn't hug that guy enough when he was a kid. His first book was somehow entertaining in a "this movie is so bad it's entertaining" sort of way. It's really as fast a read as an 800 page book goes.

Overall, I'd recommend WOT first, even though Jordan really loved to describe things to unnecessary lengths. Also, after the first few books in the series, I began to realize that they were kind of all the same book in a different package. Still, I feel like Jordan was a stronger writer than Goodkind is, and the WOT story isn't quite as cliche as SOT.

Alternatively, you could read the first book in each series, decide which you liked best and continue onward from there.

I'm with everyone else. Read the WoT first. I read the SoT first, and I regret ever spending time with it. The first 5 books were good, but there is a gradual decrease in quality with each one. The rest of the series is almost unbearable to read.

James wrote: I regret ever spending time with it. The first 5 books were good, but there is a gradual decrease in quality with each one. The rest of the series is almost unbearable to read.

Yikes. After reading so many people's take on SOT, I'm very glad I'm stopping after the first book!

Reading through the posts was fun. What a reminder about how much individual tastes can vary...

Read both.

Everyone is right about SOT. He does inject some political sauce. (I get the idea his personal political bent leans toward personal responsibility and free enterprise.) I am not a socialist so it didn't bother me so much. It is heavy handed at times. But, it doesn't completely ruin the series. It is still better than a bunch of stuff I've read.

By a long shot though, WOT is my pick for which one to read first. The only thing you can pick on Jordan for is description. Some people say that there is a lot of it. I say, "Bah! So what! Open your heart and keep turning pages." WOT has all the stuff every fantasy fan is looking for. The cool thing for you is that you won't have to read it over 20 years. Now that they are all done, you can just blow through all 4.3 million words.

Troll Twitter for a morning. The WOT series has become like a favorite uncle to so many that they are reading the final book with tears in their eyes. Not making it up. (#amemoryoflight)

Either way, enjoy!

Sybil wrote: "It's hard to recommend either, even if you like them to begin with, by the umpteenth book you want to shake some sense into the characters and tell the authors to get the plot moving.

But I'll rec..."

Good post. There are times when wheel of time feels like waste of time. Don't get me wrong, they're decent, knock-about fantasy books, but you are right up the plot needing a boot up the backside!

J. wrote: "Everyone is right about SOT. He does inject some political sauce. (I get the idea his personal political bent leans toward personal responsibility and free enterprise.) I am not a socialist so it didn't bother me so much. It is heavy handed at times. But, it doesn't completely ruin the series. It is still better than a bunch of stuff I've read."

For me the problem is the preaching, period. Even when my personal views align with the subject in question I just can't get down with someone preaching at me via fiction. It makes me irritated and ragey.

Zayne wrote: "J.R. wrote: "Well, if you're into torture scenes, I'd say go for Goodkind... someone didn't hug that guy enough when he was a kid. His first book was somehow entertaining in a "this movie is so ba..."

And let's not forget the gratuitously depicted sex scenes implicit in ALL of SoT. So not only did he not get hugged enough, but he's got some serious repression to deal with...

I vote for WoT all the way - I've read the series in entirety multiple times, and while it does drag in the latter half of Jordan's installments (part of me desperately wanted him to condense it), that doesn't take away from the writing, character development and just fantastically fascinating world he creates. Wizard's First Rule is a great book, but the series just gets too repetitive. Do try both, but IMO, WoT is more entertaining and safe for work.

Also, Belgariad + Mallorean = SO MUCH FUN.

Leo (Rahien Sorei) wrote: "Also, Belgariad + Mallorean = SO MUCH FUN. "

Agreed!

Thought Garion is a whiny little thing in book 2, lol.

Leo (Rahien Sorei) wrote: "Zayne wrote: "J.R. wrote: "Well, if you're into torture scenes, I'd say go for Goodkind... someone didn't hug that guy enough when he was a kid. His first book was somehow entertaining in a "this ..."

I don't mind WOT, but I'm sorry for banging the same drum over and over, but Jordan can never be forgiven for what he did to Conan! Never! :)

I didn't read Jordan's Conan books...I was lucky.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I didn't read Jordan's Conan books...I was lucky."

I didn't know Jordan wrote any Conan books.

MrsJoseph wrote: "Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I didn't read Jordan's Conan books...I was lucky."

I didn't know Jordan wrote any Conan books."

They are not as bad as some people say, just forgettable.

I remember seeing them on the shelves at Books-A-Million and wondering why he was writing Conan books while everybody was waiting for the next WoT book.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I remember seeing them on the shelves at Books-A-Million and wondering why he was writing Conan books while everybody was waiting for the next WoT book."

lol!

He actually wrote the Conan books before he ever started WoT....

But released them in the multi-year wait's between WoT books. I was one of the people who loved the first 5 or 6 volumes of that series, held on through 7 and 8 and finally realized we weren't going anywhere for a while by 9 and 10... The series was originally projected to be 7 volumes. I bought the first 6 at one time and read them back to back. After that I was with everybody waiting to see when the next installment would be out.

Well, that was a re-release from Tor, cashing in on Jordan's popularity. When they first came out, they were just as obscure as the other fan-fiction that became Conan novels during the 80s.

I know, they also re-released the "The Fallon Saga" during that time. He'd written them under the name of Reagan O'Neal. I think they probably considered releasing his laundry list and grocery lists as books during that time. I've always thought that popularity was part of the reason the WoT bloated up to the number of volumes it did, though there's no proof of that of course.

I think his popularity kept his editors from telling him to trim down his books. But I don't think Jordan wrote to milk the popularity cow. He was expanding his world and had a lot more stories to tell than the basic one. It got away from him, but I never got the feeling that anything was written with the intention of being filler.

Don't know about RJ himself, but I've always wondered if someone in the chain didn't realize that each book became a best seller so may have encouraged the "expansion". Like I said, I don't know I just wonder.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Don't know about RJ himself, but I've always wondered if someone in the chain didn't realize that each book became a best seller so may have encouraged the "expansion". Like I said, I don't know I ..."

Eh, I don't buy it. It would've made a lot more sense to tie up the series in a reasonable amount of time and not get a lot of readers pissed off. Then go with the whole outriggers and prequels thing they had planned to keep the money coming in.

If you want to milk a franchise you churn it out fast. Not take forever and a day between releases.

Your thinking logically, not like a publisher. Just look at Song of Ice and Fire.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Your thinking logically, not like a publisher. Just look at Song of Ice and Fire."

Seriously, I worry that we'll lose him before he finishes. Also, I'm not sure that Jordan was trying to string it out - I think he really wanted to flesh out the Forsaken as characters and not just "the enemy." Agreed there was other fluff that none of us needed more of, but I think he had good reasons. In all honesty, I think it reveals what kind of writing process he employed - for him, it was a discovery as he wrote, rather than something meticulously planned out. Unless I'm wrong, and there's an interview or article out there saying so, haha.

I agree on the Forsaken flesh out thing, wholeheartedly. Personally, I do feel those few books could have been more concise but it didn't wreck anything for me. "Forest for the trees," I think. Also, it is so easy to throw rocks at the big huge glass cathedral from my hovel, so I'll stick my hands back in my pockets and zip my lip.

Wizardry and Wild Romance: A Study of Epic Fantasy

In the mentioned book, Moorcock devotes a whole section to Howard's unintentionally hilarious take on Conan.

Leo (Rahien Sorei) wrote: "Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Your thinking logically, not like a publisher. Just look at Song of Ice and Fire."

Seriously, I worry that we'll lose him before he finishes. Also, I'm not sure that Jor..."

I'm worried he's going to kick the bucket as well. He's already said he doesn't want someone to finish the series for him.

After I read Dance with Dragons it seemed to me there was no way he could wrap it up in 2 more books.

It's amazing that there's GRRM trashing in a thread which asks for some Terry Goodkind feedback. Heh...

Chris wrote: "It's amazing that there's GRRM trashing in a thread which asks for some Terry Goodkind feedback. Heh..."

No matter where you go, there's a GRRM trashing thread.


I was trying to find books for hubby last night. He was thinking about reading ASoIaF but decided not to - because the series isn't close to being finished, lol. I told him that was a good decision - I didn't want him to have a hate on for GRRM like almost everyone else i know.

I just used him as an example of the same situation as Robert Jordan. Where it went from there isn't my responsibility.

^lol

LOL. So, this is the danger of being a fantasy series writer. If I had only known...