Fantasy Aficionados discussion

Dear Groupies~

the theme chosen for June is "Sword and Sorcery." Please put your nominations here. Remember not everyone has access to e-readers, so please try and pick books with more than one format.

Remember, if you nominate, you are agreeing to co-lead discussion. We won't take nominations from people who have not been active in discussions on the books they've nominated that have won.

Has to be the Ill Met in Lankhmar by Fritz Leiber. It is actually a compendium of his first 2 Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser books. Alternatively there is a Masterworks version released in the last few years that has the books 1-4. It is The First Book of Lankhmar

I second the Lankhmar books. Leiber invented the term Sword&Sorcery. The best of the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser books was The Swords of Lankhmar, but you should probably start at the start.

I found Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser years ago and they were okay but I thought I'd try to see if I could come up with a S&S book that might have slipped my mind, one I hadn't thought of in years maybe. I went to the "Sword and Sorcery" list here in Listopia and I'd say 2/3 of the books on the list aren't S&S.

I think I'll nominate Swords of Haven: The Adventures of Hawk and Fisher. It's another I've had the paperback waiting to be read and keep putting other books ahead of it. Looks like a good S&S read.

I think I'll nominate The Sword-Edged Blonde which sounds like it mashes up two of our theme suggestions--sword-n-sorcery and detective. It's been on my TBR a while and a couple people who have similar tastes enjoyed it.

Do we need seconds? If so, I'll second The Sword Edged Blonde. If not, I'll just vote for it. :P

I'd like to nominate: Swordspoint by Ellen Kushner

Carol wrote: "I think I'll nominate The Sword-Edged Blonde which sounds like it mashes up two of our theme suggestions--sword-n-sorcery and detective. It's been on my TBR a while and a couple people who have sim..."

I just finished it. If you like Garrett, PI, it's kind of a similar feel, except a bit more towards farce and folktale reboot.
...What precisely is "sword and sorcery"?

Oh Carly, I should have known the clarifier would be you. :) And I'm suggesting it off your review.

It has swords, and magic.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_an...

I'm very happy with the Wikipedia entry for S&S;

Sword and sorcery (S&S), or heroic fantasy, is a sub-genre of fantasy and historical fantasy, generally characterized by sword-wielding heroes engaged in exciting and violent conflicts. An element of romance is often present, as is an element of magic and the supernatural. Unlike works of high fantasy, the tales, though dramatic, focus mainly on personal battles rather than world-endangering matters.

Darn, should have thought to check wikipedia first.
Carol wrote: "Oh Carly, I should have known the clarifier would be you. :)"

Yup, not remotely OCD here. Honest.

It's more noir investigator than "heroes engaged in exciting and violent conflicts," but it probably fits in the category for the title alone.

I'm not sure of your point or what you mean, but "heroes engaged in exciting violent conflicts" sort or characterizes this sub genre. Conan, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Kane and all the classic pulp S&S stories are primarily that. Usually some hero and/or a thief up against a sorcerer/sorceress/wizard in a place (dungeon, tower, castle, palace etc.) fraught with magical traps and monsters. So, I'm not sure what you were saying.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I'm not sure of your point or what you mean, but "heroes engaged in exciting violent conflicts" sort or characterizes this sub genre. Conan, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Kane and all the classic pul..."

I was trying to think of the conflicts... at first none occurred to me, because I don't think they're at the heart of the plot, but I realized there are at least 3 sword battles throughout. So it's not quite journey-fight-monster-journey-fight-monster, but I think it does work.

Oh, you were talking about a specific book???? Got you.

I read Sword Edged Blonde a while back and it's sort of a "genre buster" as it's a kind of "sword and sorcery/noir/private eye/hard boiled detective/fantasy" book.

Maybe even a touch of Urban Fantasy as even though it's in a fantasy world it's in a city and has that "feel".

But I'm still nominating Swords of Haven: The Adventures of Hawk and Fisher. :)

*pushes CDOOCD down*

Since I'm guessing we can't nominate our own book ;) then I'll say The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind.

Andrea wrote: "Since I'm guessing we can't nominate our own book ;) then I'll say The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind."

You're right about the recs. :-)



Not sure that I'd classify SoT as S&S. I think it falls under "epic."

Comments?

Not being hard to get along with but I'd agree with MrsJ, Sword of Truth is more epic...in my opinion of course. The mods can decide.

I'm never going to get the hang of subgenres. How about Imaro? Epic or S&S? I've been meaning to read it for a while.

I haven't read that one. From the synopsis I can't tell. The Wiki entry (above)gives some examples so you can compare. S&S goes back to the pulp era and tends to be as noted, highly action oriented heroic fantasy about....well, swords and sorcery.

Maybe someone who's read that one can comment.

Blood of Ambrose by James Enge. He was one of my favorite prof's in college.

I nominate The last wish by Andrzej Sapkowski. (no links as Im posting from my phone.)

The Last Wish

Thank you!
The goodreads app is not very handy for forum reading and even less so for posting IMO. Especially for not so sober people crashing on a friends couch. ;-)

I see Game of Thrones listed under S&S when I would have thought it epic. Regardless I have a new genre of books to add to my reading list ;)

Yeah I don't consider GoT in any way S&S...I guess it's like all the sub-genre designations, we all have our own ideas.

Carol wrote: "I think I'll nominate The Sword-Edged Blonde which sounds like it mashes up two of our theme suggestions--sword-n-sorcery and detective. It's been on my TBR a while and a couple people who have sim..."

I'll second this one.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Yeah I don't consider GoT in any way S&S...I guess it's like all the sub-genre designations, we all have our own ideas."

Well, one of the characteristics of S&S I see mentioned a lot is that it's usually darker and grittier than the classic high fantasy epics. I guess some people classify GoT as S&S on that one aspect.

While I see how one can make that argument though GoT is IMO very much Epic Fantasy first.

Sometimes it's also the other way around. I see, for example, everyone lumping Joe Abercrombie's stand alone novels into the epic fantasy genre. I suppose because they are part of the same world as his epic trilogy, and the effects the events in the trilogy had on this world still play out in the background of those stand alones. But really Best Served Cold and especially Red Country are very good examples of the S&S genre IMO.

That sounds good to me Mike and Kevin. S&S tend to be shorter (especially when you look back at it's pulp origins) and are far more likely to be self contained stories.

Tyrone wrote: "That sounds good to me Mike and Kevin. S&S tend to be shorter (especially when you look back at it's pulp origins) and are far more likely to be self contained stories."

Agreed. Plus, S&S is mostly focused on a smaller scale. It is generally not large scale war and the fate of the world is almost never at stake. The stakes are smaller, the groups are smaller. One of the important aspects - to me - of S&S is that the protagonist is usually against overwhelming odds. One good example is Legend. The fate of a single country is at stake. The defenders are against something like 20 to 1 odds. Everyone expects them to die - THEY expect to die.

KevinB wrote: "I nominate The last wish by Andrzej Sapkowski. (no links as Im posting from my phone.)"

I second that! :) One of my faves and straightforward sword and sorcery.

P.S. The Sword-Edged Blonde sounds good as well, added to mt TR list.

Carly wrote: "Darn, should have thought to check wikipedia first.
Carol wrote: "Oh Carly, I should have known the clarifier would be you. :)"

Yup, not remotely OCD here. Honest.

It's more noir investigator ..."

I gotta wonder why the category queen hasn't popped in with answers . . . .

MrsJ? What is S&S?

:D

Snarktastic Sonja wrote: "I gotta wonder why the category queen hasn't popped in with answers . . . .

MrsJ? What is S&S?

:D "



pfffffft! You missed me. (#31)

Well, I hope I'm not breaking any rules. This intro was released for the 1st Witcher game but it has nothing to do with the game and is in fact telling one of the stories from The Last Wish I thought it might help decide if you're interested in reading the book and wether or not it fits in sword and sorcery genre. Enjoy! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVAHVa...

Sensei read this. Mike, is it S&S?

What about granddaddy of 'em all: Conan (The Complete Chronicles of Conan)? Most of his stories are free from Project Gutenberg.

^.^

I haven't read any Conan...

Really. none of Howard's stories? I think it was August Derleth who once said that if there was ever a compilation of Conan stories they'd have to be printed on blood colored paper.

I'd suggest you try them even if they don't get selected for a group read. They're good. I even like the Lancer books that came out in the '70s with "fill in stories" by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter.

I'm going to take it to the classics as well!

I'm let Carol chose between the two I'm going to mention. Both of them are anthologies but WONDERFUL anthologies. I'd love to see how yall react to either of these books/shorts.

Option #1: Sword and Sorceress edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley. This is the first book in a series that launched a million careers - well, that number may be exaggerated - but this is where Mercedes Lackey got her big break. Some of the stories she submitted to this series - which is still going strong, BTW - she pulled into the creation of her first successful novel.

The author of the marvelous Darkover novels and of the best-selling Arthurian novel THE MISTS OF AVALON, has assembled this corona of heroic fantasy wherein women of courage and wizardry challenge the evils and dreads of an ensorcelled world.

Here are new stories of warrior women and mistresses of magic, stories of adventure and derring-do, written by such as Glen Cook, Phyllis Ann Karr, Charles R Saunders, Jennifer Roberson, Diana Paxson, and many more.

Marion Zimmer Bradley writes in her introduction:
"Valor has neither race nor color - nor does it have gender...Anyone can write male sexist fiction; anyone can write feminist propaganda. I hop to avoid either and to entertain you while I'm doing it."

Here she has succeeded!

Option #2: Thieves' World edited by Robert Lynn Asprin (Myth Series) and Lynn Abbey. This is a shared world anthology and one of the first of that kind I ever heard of. This series lasted for quite a while and spawned several standalone novels as well. While darker in nature (is this the beginning of "dark and gritty?") than the MZB's Sword and Sorceress, this series introduced me to my first favorite character: Shadowspawn.

They all play the part of hero, they are all-powerful on a stage that is ruled by the one that you talk to - or the one you believe...

Thieves' World is what resulted when the world's top science-fiction and fantasy writers got together to create the amazing new world of Sanctuary, where you mix and mingle with Lythal the Star-browed: his magic is questionable, his sword-play is not. Jubal: ex-gladiator and slave, now a respected citizen (he made his money selling slaves). One Thumb: the crooked bartender at the Vulgar Unicorn ...and even more fantastic characters!

Lynn Abbey, Poul Anderson, Robert Asprin, John Brunner, Joe Haldeman and Andrew J Offutt have dreamed up a world of wonders - a fabulous reading adventure!

Contents:
* Introduction - Robert Asprin
* Sentences of Death - John Brunner
* The Face of Chaos - Lynn Abbey
* The Gate of Flying Knives - Poul Anderson
* Shadowspawn - Andrew Offutt
* The Price of Doing Business - Robert Asprin
* Blood Brothers - Joe Haldeman
* Myrtis - Christine DeWees
* The Secret of the Blue Star - Marion Zimmer Bradley
* The Making of Thieves' World - Robert Asprin

Carol?

MrsJoseph wrote: "I'm going to take it to the classics as well!

I'm let Carol chose between the two I'm going to mention. Both of them are anthologies but WONDERFUL anthologies. I'd love to see how yall react to ..."

I posted almost exactly the same list at exactly the same time. I deleted mine, because, as I said in my -now-vanished post, I couldn't commit to co-leading the discussion due to other committments off-line during that time. But excellent suggestions!

Ha! MrsJ and JD, you two are funny. I was thinking of MZB Sword and Sorceress but didn't have any particular anthology in mind. I have about 8 of the books, give or take. I don't think I've read any Thieves' World. So I'll take both suggestions, one from Mrs. J and one from JD, and we'll let MrsJ be the leader of either one, if they win. How's that for compromise? ;)

Carol wrote: "Ha! MrsJ and JD, you two are funny. I was thinking of MZB Sword and Sorceress but didn't have any particular anthology in mind. I have about 8 of the books, give or take. I don't think I've read an..."

Bet! Works for me!

J.D. wrote: "I posted almost exactly the same list at exactly the same time. I deleted mine, because, as I said in my -now-vanished post, I couldn't commit to co-leading the discussion due to other committments off-line during that time. But excellent suggestions! "

Thanks, JD! Great minds ;-)

Carol wrote: "...I'll take both suggestions, one from Mrs. J and one from JD, and we'll let MrsJ be the leader of either one, if they win. How's that for compromise? ;)..."

Works for me, too!

I'll probably keep nominations open through Monday, then post a poll Tuesday morning when I wake up :)

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Really. none of Howard's stories? I think it was August Derleth who once said that if there was ever a compilation of Conan stories they'd have to be printed on blood colored paper.

I'd suggest yI'd suggest you try them even if they don't get selected for a group read. They're good. I even like the Lancer books that came out in the '70s with "fill in stories" by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. "


Somebody please suggest some of the R.E.H Conan stories...they S&S to the core. Mike is correct, even the rest of that series by by the other authors are worth a read...

I nominated a Simon Green book already, but there are several Conan collections, not sure how available each one is. Conan is the first of the Lancer series and well worth a read, but I'm pretty sure it's completely out of print and would need to be bought used. I suppose look around. I have several among my books but no new ones.

Tyrone wrote: "Somebody please suggest some of the R.E.H Conan stories...they S&S to the core. Mike is correct, even the rest of that series by by the other authors are worth a read......"

How about The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian? This is a recent compilation.

What about Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay? Stand alone, and magician/sorcerer