Reading Romances discussion

Hope no one minds if I ask another question for group discussion. I'm just curious about what other readers think. Do you think a hero can be too perfect? Or do you prefer your heroes to have a flaw or two?

Personally, I like my heroes beautifully flawed.

What character traits would define a "perfect" hero?

I suppose a "perfect" hero is someone who embodies everything the heroine (whoever she is) wants in a man.

Personally, I'd just throw out the generic characteristics: nice, intelligent, handsome, caring, understanding, knows when to take charge, protective, charming, humorous, loving, polite, good with children/animals/older people. Pretty much someone you can't really dislike. Oh, and passionate of course. :)

I like my heroes to be flawed. That makes them more real to me. More believable that someone like that exists in this world.

if they're too perfect then it takes away from the possibility that someone like that exists out there.

Personality Traits:

Passionate
Protective
Gentleman

Physical Traits:

HOT

I like to build a flaw or two into my heroes. Maybe they sometimes say the wrong thing. Maybe they don't believe the heroine when they should. Or don't give her a chance to explain something. Maybe they didn't listen well enough. But then they always make up for it, sometimes in the bedroom! Lol. They always atone, admit they were wrong. The flaws make them more real. Of course they always look good, after all, this is fiction! Lol.

definitely flawed! no flaws just doesn't seem real....

Right. But not so flawed you hate him. Just enough flaws to be human and flaws that can be redeemed. He's not a rapist or a thief.

Lee *show me the smut* Anne wrote: "
if they're too perfect then it takes away from the possibility that someone like that exists out there."

Yes. I think part of the appeal of the romance genre is it gives the reader that hope.

Deanne wrote: "definitely flawed! no flaws just doesn't seem real...."

Exactly. How can you relate to a character that's not real? I mean, nobody's perfect, right? If a hero is too perfect, I don't buy it. I think the author hasn't done enough to develop the character. I just can't get into a hero that's too good to be true.

Perfect is boring.

Yes. It is. But a hero who goes over the line with bad behavior turns me off, too. I've raised two sons, so I know something about good guys who aren't perfect but are endearing with their faults! LOL. That's the ticket, be flawed by still charming.

Abigail wrote: "Perfect is boring." Exactly! My mantra? Normal is boring; twisted is better. Well maybe in this case... Perfect is boring; flawed but charming is better.

I read a discussion lately where someone suggested the typical alpha male romance hero was going past macho man toward demanding and controlling take charge of everything jerk. I don't like my real man to think for me and I don't like my romance heroes to think for their heroines. I like my heroine to have a little backbone, or least develop one before the book is over. Someone else defined this kind of controlling man as the perfect romance hero, and I thought to myself, "NOOOOO." Has anyone else noticed a trend toward more controlling alpha male heroes in romance? If so, I think it's a disturbing trend.

Some writers brag about their "alpha" heroes. I don't want a hero to be too alpha. To me love is about listening and supporting, not controling. But those folks may prefer the birdbrained heroine who needs someone to tell her when to turn left and right. My heroines aren't like that. I hate stupid heroines. That's a "close the book and move on" deal for me. And what intelligent heroine would want a guy telling her what to do all the time? Give me a sweeter, more caring hero and I'm yours every time. IMHO.

Denise wrote: "Has anyone else noticed a trend toward more controlling alpha male heroes in romance? If so, I think it's a disturbing trend. "

Yes. I will be the first to admit that there is something about it, perhaps the BDSM aspect, that is appealing to part of me in that regards - a strong Alpha who isn't afraid to ask for what he wants. What I don't like is the forgiving aspect that usually accompanies this type of character when they act like complete d*cks or get controlling to the point of abusive and the female is like "It's okay, he's just complicated.. or damaged.. and have you seen his abs??" - That bothers me.

With that off my chest, I still prefer a flawed hero - but not one that has been damaged and tortured which for some reason seems to be the most commonly used method for authors to flaw their hero (I suppose it is easy?) - Sherrilynn Kenyon is notorious for this - not a single one of her male characters wasn't tortured, abused or farked in the head as a child or as part of the military. For a couple of books that is okay, but after the 7th book - it's like you are reading the same male with a different name. That method is so overused that it has become a bit of a turn-off for me when reading.

I prefer male heroes who are realistic enough to let the female heroine next to him shine. Everyone knows that beside every great hero is a great heroine.

I'm so lucky I've raised two sons. I can see their flaws, how they could drive someone crazy without being as you say, "damaged" in a serious way. And yet they can be loving and sweet. So I tap into what I know about guys from watching them grow up to mix in a few flaws without losing the innate sweetness of good guys.

And yeah, I agree. Heroines who make excuses for the hero's bad behavior turn me off.

No, I don't like excuses for the hero's bad behavior either. Whenever I read a heroine like that, I want to throw the book up against the wall. But I can't, because it's on my Nook and I dont' want to break my reader.

If the hero is flawed, I want the heroine to challenge his flaws. Not necessarily attempt to "fix" him. After all, how many times does that work in real life? But I do want his relationship with her to make him want to be a better person. To "fix" himself, so to speak.

Some of the heroes I write are damaged. Some of them are just good guys with a character flaw that either needs to be buffed out or the heroine can live with because the guy has other redeeming qualities. I want the hero to be just a little bit irritating. I want sparks to fly so the two of them can make up.

Absolutely, Denise. I agree completely. Both H/h need to be forgiving people when mistakes are made, even serious ones. I like to make characters as real as I can. It's much easier to channel a character if you can think of him or her as a real person, with flaws, strengths and even know their favorite color and flavor of ice cream.

Denise wrote: "Hope no one minds if I ask another question for group discussion. I'm just curious about what other readers think. Do you think a hero can be too perfect? Or do you prefer your heroes to have a fla..."

Flaws are nice but not in the way that they always have to be an alpha male. Why can't it be withholding info, not telling every detail of his past before you met him or when & why his last relationship ended. I am tired of reading about millionaires, billionaires & alphas yet that is what I am drawn to now it seems because it has become a weird norm. Erotica doesn't always bondage, submission, or bowing to enjoy yourself. Okay, TMI. LOL

Mary wrote: "I suppose a "perfect" hero is someone who embodies everything the heroine (whoever she is) wants in a man.

Personally, I'd just throw out the generic characteristics: nice, intelligent, handsome, ..."

I totally agree!!!

Jean wrote: "I like to build a flaw or two into my heroes. Maybe they sometimes say the wrong thing. Maybe they don't believe the heroine when they should. Or don't give her a chance to explain something. Maybe..."

Yay, I like this answer too. This is so appealing in a man.

Jean wrote: "Absolutely, Denise. I agree completely. Both H/h need to be forgiving people when mistakes are made, even serious ones. I like to make characters as real as I can. It's much easier to channel a cha..."

Yes, almost to the point where some of these books border on what I would call rape they call concent. I don't think so not in my book. Scary trend.

Hmmm.... Is this really a new trend though? I remember reading a book years ago. I think back then they called them bodice rippers. It was a historical romance, set in the US before the Revolutionary War. Anyway, it seemed to me the so-called hero of the book raped the heroine when he thought she was a prostitute. Then she goes on to "fall in love" with him and he goes on to "accept" her into his wealthy family. Um... No. To me, this isn't romance.

I agree, Cal. You are so right! I never do that! I hate that. My heroes would never force anyone. I don't like that and if anyone coerces anyone, it's the bad guy, certainly not the hero. He's got to have standards and respect for women or he's no hero in my book...no pun intended. I'd never write a hero that way. Yuck!

Really, Denise? I'm with you on this. I wouldn't care for that at all. And it's so unrealistic, too. That would bug me. Since when do you have to rape a prostitute? If you've got the bucks, you can pay for what you want? Too ugly for my taste. But then I like sweet romance as well as spicy.

They used the term "forced seduction." Whatever.

Right Abigail. I've heard that term, too. I don't much care for forced seduction. Seduction is one thing but forced puts it into another realm for me.

Jean wrote: "Right Abigail. I've heard that term, too. I don't much care for forced seduction. Seduction is one thing but forced puts it into another realm for me."

Forced seduction = brainwashing / manipulation - which in my book is abuse, not romance. No wonder some people have a hard time understanding when No means No.

I agree, C.E. It's not necessary to write that. You can sell books without forced seduction.

Just the phrase forced seduction gives me the creeps. What consenting adults do with each other is their business, but forced seduction isn't consent and it isn't romance. In real life or fiction.

Absolutely right. It's a term invented by some writers who wanted to write as close to rape as they could without getting called on it, I think. I doubt it fools many.

I go by the original idea of the hero, you know the one Joseph Campbell espoused and the Medieval heroes. Charity, dignity, gentle demeanor towards women, willing to lay down his life for his ideals and his lady. Doesn't hock or pick his nose in public. *hehe* Yes, he might be a normal man, but if he doesn't overcome that he's not, in my book, a hero. A hero must display heroic qualities, or it's a big fail. The ones who bully and fight with the heroine before they fall into bed together aren't my favorite kinds of characters at all.


Denise wrote: "Hope no one minds if I ask another question for group discussion. I'm just curious about what other readers think. Do you think a hero can be too perfect? Or do you prefer your heroes to have a fla..."

I agree, Juli D. I like kind heroes. But some of my heroines bicker with their heroes. A little conflict between them makes for interesting reading. And sometimes the heroine has to stand up to him to get his respect. But unkind heroes don't cut it with me.
However, one of my villains has come to me demanding he be the hero in his own book. He's told me his backstory and I'm giving him a book. He will be tough, demanding but respect the heroine and mend his bad ways. Sometimes characters speak to you. I love protective heroes.