Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

This is the discussion topic for our chosen second May, 2013, Contemporary SF/F Novel read and discussion:



Throne of the Crescent Moon by Saladin Ahmed


A heroic fantasy novel nominated for both the 2012 Hugo and Nebula awards.

Well, I for one enjoyed reading this heroic sword and sorcery tale.

Some of the good points:

First, it uses a setting and culture that isn't inspired by the usual Western European Middle Ages/Renaissance. Nothing wrong with that, but it's nice to have a slightly different flavor to things every now and then. Furthermore, It locates most of the story inside a city, instead of marching people all across the countryside (though it does start with a little walking.)

Second, one of the main characters (perhaps the primary character) is an old man. We seniors appreciate that, since we're rarely a target demographic! And not a Gandalf style wise old man who doles out advice and exposition, but as a prominent member of the Team, in all his overweight, flatulent glory. :)

The fact that the main character was an old man was the greatest strength of the story for me as well. I can only recall one other book who featured an old (60+ years) man: Legend.

Another thing I find interesting about it is that although it's largely apolitic Ahmed didn't airbrush away class differences & other unsavory aspects in the setting like Tolkien & Jordan did.

Evgeny wrote: "I can only recall one other book who featured an old (60+ years) man: Legend."

Elizabeth Bear's fantasy novella Bone and Jewel Creatures stars an elderly woman. Bijou is even older than Adoulla. I'm not sure Tenar's age in Tehanu is ever given. She's a widowed grandmother, but I don't know that her age is mentioned. Ged must be getting on in years, too, by the time we get to The Other Wind.

I thought I'd comment on the fact that this book was issued with two different covers.

Sadly, the paperback version I have uses the cover on the left. It's not a bad cover, but it's two stock photos blended.

   

On the other hand, the cover on the right features the custom painting depicting the three main characters. Ahmed is wearing his white robe with the stain-free enchantment (maybe he looks a bit too much like Moses?) Anyway, I think it's a much more effective cover.

(Apologies to mobile viewers who don't get see that artwork.)

Just finished the book, I hope you don't mind me joining the conversation.

I found the setting and the characters to be somewhat refreshing. A crotchety old man who farts a lot? I think that's a rare find. Usually, fat old men are jovial and kind, right? And the old teachers are generally patient and wise. At least that's the way it seems to me. I know there are exceptions to the rule. But Adoulla is not really either of those - he's both and neither at the same time.

And usually young woman protagonists are uncommonly pretty. I thought the author went out of his way to make sure we knew that Zamia was not pretty. I often get tired of exceptionally pretty and exceptionally gifted characters who execute every plan flawlessly against all odds with no repercussions.

I think there is a bit of a twist to the Falcon Prince, too. But that is more a twist to his actions rather than anything else. I don't want to post any spoilers about it because what I'm talking about happens right near the end of the book.

My interest has definitely been piqued though. I'm interested in finding out more about the lands of the crescent moon.

jaw wrote: "Adoulla is not really either of those - he's both and neither at the same time...."

Adoulla offers an interesting contrast between what he wants and what he is. He'd rather just retire to his cozy little home with his books, sip tea at leisure, and marry woman he loves. At the same time he's insensitive to others and has some crude habits and a crotchety personality that he's too old to change. This isn't the contradiction it might appear at first glance.

Raseed (the monk so nice they named him twice) is an idealistic young religious warrior whose loyalty to Adoulla is sorely tested by his elder's notable character flaws. Raseed is interesting because he's having trouble applying the black-and-white principles he learned at the monastery to a gray real world.

Zamia is the girl with the tragic past. A young warrior from a nomadic tribe of the wilderness, out of place in the city, even less sophisticated than Adoulla.

jaw wrote: "I think there is a bit of a twist to the Falcon Prince, too. But that is more a twist to his actions rather than anything else...."

The Falcon Prince is written almost as Errol Flynn playing Robin Hood. Handsome, dashing, charismatic, articulate and bombastic. He walks the line between thief and revolutionary. Yet, it's not clear what his true goals are, whether he's truly the champion of the downtrodden people, a potential ally, or just another player in a complicated power game.


I noticed in Xdyj's review that he had trouble caring for the characters. I don't think any of them will make my "favorite characters of all time" list, either, but I don't think I could say that I didn't care about them. The test was whether during the climax I was interested in who is going to live and who was going to die.

Hm, now that you mention it, I'm not sure I cared for the characters either.

During the final battle, I was not worried either way other than not wanting the man in the dirty kaftan to gain the throne.

Despite being sub-titled "Book 1 of the Crescent Moon Kingdoms", doesn't seem to be any hint of a sequel, even on the Saldin Ahmed's website. I'm curious where the story of the kingdom would go after the upheaval.

Hm, I just assumed it would follow Zamia and Rasheed or Litaz and her husband. Maybe a small chance of adoulla and his protege?

I kind of feel like Adoulla needs to train a replacement.

jaw wrote: "Hm, I just assumed it would follow Zamia and Rasheed or Litaz and her husband. Maybe a small chance of adoulla and his protege?...."

I was thinking more that the this book ended with (view spoiler)[a successful revolution and the assassination of the entire royal line, leaving the Falcon Prince in charge (?) and apparently given some strange powers by the ritual on the throne (but I don't think we saw manifest?) Presumably, running the country will keep the Falcon Prince too busy to go dancing over rooftops robbing people; but I don't think we ever really knew what his true goals were. Or is he really just Robin Hood with a scimitar? (hide spoiler)]

:D - That makes more sense. I guess I just felt like that he spent a lot of time on Zamia and Rasheed as well as Litaz (less so on her husband) and that he left some open ends on those characters.

I found it interesting that Adoulla considers himself to be middle-aged, but the youngsters think of him as an old man.

Sue wrote: "I found it interesting that Adoulla considers himself to be middle-aged, but the youngsters think of him as an old man."

There's no "fantasy" in that. :)

Saladin Ahmed has been nominated for a British Fantasy Award in the "Best Newcomer" category for Throne of the Crescent Moon.


(Source: BFS Website)

Adoulla is the best thing about this book, he's a great protagonist. I imagine if Lord of the Rings had a point of view from Gandalf's perspective you might have similar internal dialog.

One of the things that really stood out for me in this book was the setting. The city of Dhamsawaat is described in the first chapter as stinking, over-crowded, and corrupt. But Adoulla has a great affection for the place just the same, and seeing it through his eyes makes you like it too.

Daran wrote: "AI imagine if Lord of the Rings had a point of view from Gandalf's perspective you might have similar internal dialog...."

Gandalf struck me as more avuncular, more philosophical and considerably less sarcastic and crude. But I like Adoulla for those very reasons. Old men are supposed to be cantankerous and an embarrassment to their youngers. :)

G33z3r wrote: "Gandalf struck me as more avuncular, more philosophical and considerably less sarcastic and crude. But I like Adoulla for those very reasons. Old men are supposed to be cantankerous and an embarrassment to their youngers. :) "

Perhaps so. I don't see them as the same, just of the same type. I think the mix of pride and exasperation that Adoulla feels toward his younger colleagues is something Gandalf could sympathize with.

I didn't finish this one as quick as I had hoped, but I still found this one to be a fun ride. The Arabian Nights setting was a nice departure from the norm, and I found the characters to be likeable as well.

jaw wrote: "I found the setting and the characters to be somewhat refreshing. A crotchety old man who farts a lot? I think that's a rare find. Usually, fat old men are jovial and kind, right? And the old teachers are generally patient and wise."

I especially enjoyed Adoulla's chemistry with Raseed. It was entertaining to see Adoulla's constant exasperation with Raseed's strict moral code. Adoulla's interaction with the supporting characters in general made this book feel more like a fantasy sitcom at times than a traditional fantasy novel. I hope we have not seen the last of the Crescent Moon Kingdom.

Drew wrote: "I especially enjoyed Adoulla's chemistry with Raseed. It was entertaining to see Adoulla's constant exasperation with Raseed's strict moral code...."

This may sound like a contradiction, but while I found Adoulla to be the most refreshingly different character in the cast, I also found Raseed to be the more interesting.

Raseed is bound by oath to his order to to adhere to a strict moral code, but now that he's left the monastery and been dropped into the real world, he's finding right and wrong a little harder to separate. Principal among those contradictions is Adoulla, whom he both serves and finds to make several morally gray choices. Then, despite his oath of celibacy, he finds himself falling in love. And lastly, when he is unable to obtain the medicine he needs to save Zamia, he suddenly finds the Falcon Prince, clearly a rogue and thief and revolutionary whom he must oppose, steals the very medicine Raseed needs and gives it to him. That latter finally cracks Raseed's belief in absolutes.

Raseed is bound by oath to his order to to adhere to a strict moral code, but now that he's left the monastery and been dropped into the real world, he's finding right and wrong a little harder to separate...."

Ahmed did a good job of creating characters that balanced each other out. Adoulla helped introduce Raseed to the notion that strict morality is a challenge in the real world. I think Raseed, Zamia, and the rest of Adoulla's friends also kept Adoulla grounded when the hopes for his city continued to get dimmer.

G33z3r wrote: "Despite being sub-titled "Book 1 of the Crescent Moon Kingdoms", doesn't seem to be any hint of a sequel, even on the Saldin Ahmed's website..."

Flipping around through GoodReads, I stumbled across this post from the author:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

It appears that this series will be a trilogy, and the next volume will be out in 2013.

Drew wrote: "Flipping around through GoodReads, I stumbled across this post from the author:..."

Good find, Drew. (I checked on Mr. Ahmed's own website and even his Twitter feed, but couldn't find anything on the schedule for the sequel. Though 2013 is half over now....)

Trilogies or series can creep up on you in the most surprising way - for instance, when I was first getting into sci-fi and fanstasy, I had no clue that The Wheel of Time was a huge epic series; I read the first book and thought, "Wow, that was great!" To my surprise, I found there to be a pile of sequels! I hope that happens here, Ahmed's writing was most engaging.

For those who enjoyed this book, "Throne of the Crescent Moon", I thought I might recommend Engraved on the Eye, which is a collection of short stories by the same author, Saladin Ahmed, from late 2012 (but that I just read.) It's lead novelette, "Where Virtue is Found", is the story of how Adoulla met Raseed. (No amazing revelations, just another chance to hang out with your favorite overweight aging ghul hunter.)

The anthology also has two other stories set in the same world as "Throne of the Crescent Moon", though involving different characters in different places. I especially enjoyed the dervish-centric story, "Judgment of Swords and Souls".

Plus it has five other stories, a couple funny, others more serious fantasy in other contexts.