Crushed discussion

Its so obvious to me that the one of the killers is Nick, who preyed on "their Ali". 'Ali's Pretty Little Lies"made that obvious. He was real Ali's boyfriend aka Tripp aka Reefer, who obviously had to dump Spencer so he could go into hiding to stalk the girls. Alison probably got her burns and meds paid for by Reefer who has major money. SO OBVIOUS.

What about naomi

Jenna wrote: "Its so obvious to me that the one of the killers is Nick, who preyed on "their Ali". Pretty Little Killer made that obvious. He was real Ali's boyfriend aka Tripp aka Reefer, who obviously had to d..."
Wait Nick/Tripp is Reefer? I never thought about that. I kinda thought it would be the new guy Chase cause it's just a little too convenient how he came into her life if you ask me

It's Toby.

I thought Toby was dead?

Christine wrote: "I thought Toby was dead?"

Toby IS dead. It can't be him. Also right before Graham died he tried to say who he saw spying on the girls. It started with an "N". Naomi is a red herring. It's Nick, I'm telling you.

Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "I thought Toby was dead?"

Toby IS dead. It can't be him. Also right before Graham died he tried to say who he saw spying on the girls. It started with an "N". Naomi is a red herr..."

yeah i'm going with Jenna it makes total sense I mean in Crushed they hint that Ali had a bf while in the Preserve and then in Ali's Pretty Little Lies Nick pops up as a friend from some "camp" that Ali supposedly went to. But since Courtney was pretending to be Ali that all could've been a lie she never met him and Ali never spoke about him. He'd be perfect since the girls up till now didn't even know until now he existed now they know there's another A but not even what he looks like.

How is it Jenna if Jenna is dead??

I didn't mean Jenna from the series I meant the Jenna i was replying to

Jenna wrote: "Its so obvious to me that the one of the killers is Nick, who preyed on "their Ali". Pretty Little Killer made that obvious. He was real Ali's boyfriend aka Tripp aka Reefer, who obviously had to d..."

I think Nick/Tripp is the second A, but I don't think he's Reefer... What evidence do you have for that? Also, Tripp wasn't Real Ali's boyfriend; he was Iris's boyfriend and Ali's friend. Nick was Courtney (as fake Ali)'s boyfriend, but I think that was all part of Real Ali's plan to kill her.

Olivia wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Its so obvious to me that the one of the killers is Nick, who preyed on "their Ali". Pretty Little Killer made that obvious. He was real Ali's boyfriend aka Tripp aka Reefer, who obvi..."

I could see Tripp, Nick, and the new guy all being the same guy just for the simple fact no one knows who he looks like. But why was Noel attacked? and will he live?

Noel was attacked bc the girls all thought he was A, but then Ali killed him to prove they were wrong. I don't think he will live. I feel so bad for Aria.

Diana wrote: "Noel was attacked bc the girls all thought he was A, but then Ali killed him to prove they were wrong. I don't think he will live. I feel so bad for Aria."

Noel is definitely dead.

It might be Nick bc every A is someone who hates Courtney and Nick probably hates her bc he put his gf in a mental institution

But then how does Tripp play into this was that Nick posing as Tripp?

Jenna wrote: "Diana wrote: "How is it Jenna if Jenna is dead??"

By "going with Jenna" she means she thinks I'm right. Not that Jenna from the series is "A".

And yes, the theory goes that Tripp is Nick, who is also Reefer. They're all the same person. That's why Reefer broke up with Spencer - because he probably had things he needed to do as "A" and dating Spencer was no longer useful. Also, if Reefer was Tripp/Nick then he hates Spencer. That would also explain how those brownies (the ones Spencer brought to the Eating Club party) got laced with drugs. Because he laced them. Graham knew Tabitha, who obviously knew Alison, so he would have recognized Nick from the Preserve. That's the connection. Why he knew him as "Nick" and not "Tripp" is anyone's guess, but I guess we will soon see.

Think about it. Why else would "Ali's Pretty Little Lies" have featured a character like Nick if he was never going to show up again? Details in books are never meaningless, especially when they are a large part of the story. No way would Sara Shepard have devoted such a huge part of that book to "their Ali's" relationship with "Nick" if he was a meaningless character with no back story or relevance to the plot.

In regards to the evidence about Nick being Reefer.. well if you accept that Nick is Tripp, then you must also accept that Tripp is Reefer. Why? Well because of the following evidence:

Did any of you notice that Tripp and Reefer are both nicknames referencing drugs? They also were both specifically mentioned as being very intelligent guys. Remember "Real Ali" talking about how super smart Tripp was and how he was tutoring her? And Reefer was enrolled at Princeton- you have to be one helluva student to get accepted there. Also it was never mentioned why Tripp was in the hospital. He could easily have been in the Preserve for drug rehab. And we all know that Reefer indulges in marijuana at the very least, and possibly more if he did in fact lace those brownies with LSD.

Nick is likely Tripp sent by Ali to get the goods on what Courtney was doing with her life. She would have had to have someone on the outside finding out what Courtney was up to. By this time, Tripp had probably been released from the Preserve. Why do you think Ali never told Iris the name of her boyfriend on the outside? She wouldn't have told because she didn't want Iris to know she was dating her friend's ex.

Remember when Nick met "their Ali" on the playground? He asked her about "camp" to feel her out. Maybe he was testing her to see if she really had stolen Ali's life. Maybe he was trying to find out if Alison had told him the truth about what Courtney had done. Maybe he was testing her to see if his girlfriend was batshit crazy, or telling the absolute truth. So when "Ali" confirmed it by pretending to remember him from a camp neither of them had ever been to, he realized that Alison was telling the truth and Courtney had pulled the switch. Maybe that was when everything was cemented for him and he decided to help Ali get the ultimate revenge. Why he agreed to hurt the other girls' is still baffling, but the real Alison did have a way of making anyone do anything she wanted. Maybe his motive for hurting the girl's was his misguided lust for revenge after Alison was so badly burned in the fire.

As far as Tripp being Iris' boyfriend, for one thing that girl is seriously screwed up and could have exaggerated the whole thing in her mind, and for another, he could easily have been with Ali before OR AFTER dating Iris. Iris made it clear that Tripp never really cared about her and was only using her. Perhaps even dating Iris was part of Ali's twisted manipulations. What she could have gotten out of having Tripp pretend to like Iris remains to be seen.

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :P

Jenna wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Diana wrote: "How is it Jenna if Jenna is dead??"

By "going with Jenna" she means she thinks I'm right. Not that Jenna from the series is "A".

And yes, the theory goes that Tripp i..."
Jenna I love you that makes sense once you wrap your head around it lol maybe he hates the other girls by association because they in a way even though they didnt know helped courtney take over Ali's life

Maybe the author is making people think it's Nick/Tripp but A instead turns out to be someone else entirely that no one saw coming :)

Diana wrote: "Maybe the author is making people think it's Nick/Tripp but A instead turns out to be someone else entirely that no one saw coming :)"

I doubt it. She doesn't put people in her stories for no reason. Everyone has a reason to be there - either as a red herring, or as the killer. The red herrings have already been shown: Noel, Naomi, Graham, that guy Spencer dated who ran the blog... If the girls' think a person is the killer they are always wrong. You can be sure that whoever they pin it on next will be innocent as well. We won't find out the truth until the last book when Spencer finds out her own boyfriend was after her.

I'd bet a hundred bucks that my theory is at least 95% right. Because no one else DID see this coming. Most people still don't even believe it. But all the clues are there - all you have to do is put them together. It's like a puzzle. When you read the book from a writer's perspective, then you can figure it out. Look for the tiny details (like the similarity in Tripp/Reefer's name) and you'll solve it.

Mark my words, Nick/Reefer/Tripp is one guy and is mixed up in this up to his pretty boy haircut. If I'm wrong, I will totally eat my words. :)

very true

what bout naomi or riley. they wrere best friends with ali

Diana wrote: "what bout naomi or riley. they wrere best friends with ali"

Let's start with what we know. We know that the killer (the second A) was on the cruise ship with the girls. We know that Naomi was on the boat AND we know that Riley was not. That is why Naomi wanted to hang out with Hanna in the first place - she didn't have her usual entourage around. We also know that the second killer's name starts with an N. And we THINK we know that Nick/Reefer/Tripp are all the same person.

So if we know all that then there is no way that Naomi or Riley could have done this. Why? Well think about it.

Riley is immediately exonerated because she wasn't on the cruise ship and therefore could not have caused the explosion in the boiler room, or messed with the girls' boat at the cove.

If Naomi was the second A then why would she have sent a rescue boat for the girls when they were pretty much destined to drown out at the cove? Isn't killing and torturing them what Ali wants? I'd say death by drowning/starvation/exposure/eaten by a shark is a pretty torturous death. And clearly "A" agreed, since he messed with their life boat. That was supposed to be their final curtain call. Clearly, he didn't count on Naomi of all people sending out the search party. Notice how he wasn't on the rescue boat with Naomi and everyone else who went after them? Because he was likely too busy getting back to shore unseen and hiding with the mass of students being ushered off the cruise to safety.

There is the fact that Naomi's own cousin, Madison, was almost killed by A. If Naomi was secretly working with Alison, then why on Earth would she ever have allowed that to happen? And why would Naomi ever admit to Hanna that Ali had TOLD her she planned to exact her revenge on the four girls who had been friends with Courtney while she was posing as Ali? If Naomi was A's secret accomplice, she'd never reveal that. In my opinion, "Burned" completely exonerates Naomi as A's accomplice but there is more. "Ali's Pretty Little Lies" really makes it clear that neither Naomi or Riley are the killer.

Think about that for a minute. At the end, when Courtney is dying, she feels horribly betrayed by her sister's accomplice. Why would Courtney have felt such a sense of betrayal when Ali's accomplice (i.e. the second A) looked at her in the hole, right before she died? The betrayal indicates that whoever helped kill her sister was someone she was close to, someone without an immediately identifiable motive. Courtney and Naomi were never even friends, so it wouldn't surprise her so much that Naomi would have helped Ali. Same rationalization applies to Riley. In fact, it would even make sense to her, seeing as how those two were her sister's best friends. When she'd had her sister locked up, not only had she had their best friend sent away but she'd taken a lot of their status and popularity at school. Adding insult to injury, she'd surrounded herself with a group of former losers, who were now the most popular girl's in school. When you look at motives for premeditated murder only three come up: love (or obsession), power, and revenge. That gives Naomi and Riley all three scary motives to kill: love (for Real Ali), power (at school), and revenge (for both what was done to them and to Real Ali). When you reflect on that, it makes total sense that either of them would help Real Ali and because of that, they could not have done it. Courtney would have no reason to feel betrayed by either of them. So even though they had powerful motives, her reaction to the killer's act immediately exonerates either of them.

But back to my original argument, Burned gives us even more reason to suspect Reefer. Don't forget, he was with the scuba group when Spencer nearly drowned. Her oxygen tank had been cut. Remember, both Reefer and Spencer are trained divers. It's likely he'd carry a diving knife on his excursion. He may even carry around smaller, more regular types of knives like a pen knife, as drug addicts often do... (they are convenient for all sorts of naughty drug using/dealing behavior), but I'm not sure that there is any actual evidence in the book to support that he did (carry a pen knife, that is. I'm going to re-read this last installment of the series to see if there is more evidence in that regard.) And being on the same boat, he was also in a position to notice which tank was Spencer's. True, he gave her CPR and claimed he pulled her to the surface, but there were a lot of people around to notice what was happening to her. She only had his word that he was the one who noticed her lack of oxygen first. Most likely others did too, so he had no choice but to "save" her. Doing so would make him look innocent in her eyes and prevent her from ever suspecting his involvement. He also happened to be in the boat when the scuba instructor told them how dangerous going to that cove would be. It only makes sense that if he was A, he'd follow them out there somehow and damage their lifeboat.

Graham said the person spying on them had a name that started with an N. If it wasn't Naomi, and it couldn't be according to all the given evidence, then who else could it be but Nick?

I know that the show and the book aren't exactly the same, but if we are talking about who A is, the then show defiantly makes it the same. So if A is Toby in the show, it should be the same in the book.

Jenna wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Diana wrote: "How is it Jenna if Jenna is dead??"

By "going with Jenna" she means she thinks I'm right. Not that Jenna from the series is "A".

And yes, the theory goes that Tripp i..."

Wow. Your theory actually makes a lot of sense. It was pretty obvious already that Nick and Tripp are the same person, but now I see how he could be Reefer as well. I don't recall Reefer's last name (and was his real first name ever mentioned?) but Tripp's mother said that Tripp now lives with his dad, so he might be using his dad's name. I hadn't noticed the drug reference thing; that does seem like a helluva coincidence to be accidental.

However, I fail to see how Noel fits into this. If we assume that Iris was telling the truth when she recognized Noel as the guy who visited Ali, should we believe that Ali had two boyfriends while in the Preserve? Or was Noel not really her boyfriend? I suppose it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things since we already know that Ali is a manipulative killer, but I feel like there was something to Ali's and Noel's relationship that needs to be understood.

Diana wrote: "I know that the show and the book aren't exactly the same, but if we are talking about who A is, the then show defiantly makes it the same. So if A is Toby in the show, it should be the same in the..."

Why do you think Toby is A? I don't watch the show, but I know that it is very different from the books. In the books, Mona is the first A, but then she dies. Real Ali is the second A and Toby dies pretty early on in the book series. If he is A in the show, then that has nothing to do with the books.

Because if the show is based on the books, the have to be a little bit similar. It 's ok if they don't have some of the same things, but the person who is A is really important and they should keep it the same. In the show, Mona was the first A and the she died, too.

Yeah but Toby is definitely dead. Like rotting six feet under half decomposed dead.

What book did he die in again? I believe you, just refresh meh memory

Diana, the television series has pretty wildly veered from the book's plot. Marlene King has gone on the record to state that A will not be the same person that was featured in the book. You can have the opinion that the show should stick to the books storyline, but you need to understand that the writers have full creative control and all rights to change the story however they want. That's how it works in television and movies. Once a studio buys the rights to an author's material, depending on how the contract is written, they can pretty much do what they want. That's why so many movies never live up to the books they were based on - because the writers have to adapt the book so that it works better on screen. If you've ever seen read the book, A Walk to Remember, and then seen the movie, you will understand what I mean. They change a lot of things because what works in a novel doesn't always translate well on screen. In the books, the Spencer/Toby relationship never even happens, because Toby dies so early on.

So yes, Toby is definitely dead. To answer your question, he dies in book 2: Flawless. He committed suicide because he was afraid that his secret about molesting Jenna in middle school would become common knowledge and gossip fodder among the Rosewood residents. A cyclist found him dead of an intentional drug overdose. He left a note behind for Emily, explaining why he did it. This was the night after the dance they went together. Emily became suspicious and frightened of Toby and ran in her house and locked him out. He pounded on her door for a long time before giving up and leaving. At some point after that, and before morning, he ended his life. Emily thought he was confessing to Ali's murder, but he was actually confesing to what he'd done to Jenna because he thought that was what Emily meant when she screamed "I know what you did to her!" After that he gave up trying to get Emily to open the door, and raced off to commit suicide because he couldn't handle dealing with everyone knowing his dirty little secrets. (hah see what I did there?)

Pretty morbid stuff, huh?

Whoa, she wrote so many books, it's kind of hard to remember the details. I kind of agree that she should end the serious, as much as I love it. And ya, I'm going with Nick as A.

Jenna wrote: "Diana, the television series has pretty wildly veered from the book's plot. Marlene King has gone on the record to state that A will not be the same person that was featured in the book. You can ha..."
lol nice little pun there

Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "I thought Toby was dead?"

Toby IS dead. It can't be him. Also right before Graham died he tried to say who he saw spying on the girls. It started with an "N". Naomi is a red herr..."

Also, it makes sense that Graham would know Nick/Tripp because he would have visited the Preserve to see Tabitha, so they share a history.

I def think it's Nick. Either way I'm sooo over it now. I'll still keep reading the books but she seriously needs to give up!



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Kiah wrote: "It is so obviously MIKE. Everything that they thought Noel did it was MIKE. Mike was in Jamaica, and in Iceland. They have said before that Mike had a crush on Allison and would most likely help her."

Eh... I don't think that Mike would set his sister up for murder. Also, Mike is a horny bastard who looks at almost everyone... he even had a thing for Hanna when she was still *gasp* fat.

No... no way did Mike do this. Although if he did that's a twist I'd never have seen coming. If it is him, or someone equally shocking, my respect for Sara might crank back up a little after her recent failure. But only if the prior books actually, you know, lend credence to it. If he's used as a last minute shock and awe tactic, without any literary evidence, I'm gonna be annoyed.

If you're going to float this kind of theory you should at least post some evidence from the books to back up your theory. I mean, besides the fact that he was in both countries and thought Ali was hot.

Ha! Mike as A? Right...

it is most definitely Nick

Agree with the Nick/Tripp Theory - Does anyone know how Noel knew about the twins and the switch????. Why wouldn't have mentioned it

I don't think Noel does know about the switch.

i think noel wasnt a but it might have been iris i think she was as helper and how else would a have figured out jordan is in bonaire