Lost Generation discussion
ending of The Sun also Rises.
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Matthew - wonderful critique. Wish I was half as insightful. Thank you!
Thanks, Amy. I am hoping someone who finds it as insightful as you might write a paper on Brett's identity as a personification of Jake's "need to believe in something" element. Unfortunately, Jake offers Brett "nada".
Hi Matthew, what a great piece. It certainly gives food for thought (and discussion here, I hope!).Why don't you open a new topic referring to it to ask for papers? With all the Hem scholars here, I believe you will be successful.
Thanks, Charlotte, for your comment. I will try your suggestion!
Since I didn't originally know this was posted here and responded on another page I'll re-post & add to it: Matthew,
I am thrilled that you've prompted a discussion/challenge with a very interesting thesis. Hemingway is fascinating and certainly one of my fav if not my fav author. Also, the Christ/Christian point of view intrigues me coming from a Christian background. There is a bit to digest. I look forward to discussing this with my son who turned me on to Hemingway and I'm sure I'll post more when I have read and digested this excellent review. Hopefully, others will participate as well.
After giving some thought to your analysis of the book from a Christian pov I wanted to add something. I've come across other instances when a writer (of movies as well) is so on target with getting across life itself, character's are so real and reflect emotions, decisions, experience ramifications etc. etc. ( I hope I'm making this clear) it is so true the "truth" can't help but come through. Now,viewing it from a Christian perspective I have found that "truth" whether meant to be the central theme or not finds its way into the story. Truth being reflected in The Sun Also Rises is hard to miss from any perspective, Christian or not. Those people are as real to me as anyone I know (same with the Gatsby bunch). So if we choose to view it from a Christian perspective we will find the truth reflected back to us. That's why truth is...well truth (this of course is my experience being a Christian). I once had to write a paper on a movie and the assignment was so distressing to me I was at odds as to what to write. As I sat down and viewed the movie frame by frame I suddenly found a light versus darkness theme which I never expected. I found a truth in the movie which was not necessarily put there for us to view from a Christian pov but all the same it was a good versus evil movie. (A Touch of Evil - Orson Welles) It was brought to life using camera angles and shadowing and other cinematic techniques. The professor said she never had a paper reveal insight from that perspective and was thrilled. Whether it was right, wrong, or intended by Welles doesn't matter. It's what spoke to me. Matthew, I love what you wrote and would challenge myself to dig through the book and come up with my own Christian slant. Also, any other challenges you have would be most welcome. I hope I got my point across...sometimes I feel I don't have the words to get it all out clearly. Wish we were all in a room together for this discussion.
Hello everyone,I went back and dug up a paper that I wrote on The Sun Also Rises back in my college days. You know, I actually sent this paper (with this thesis that I am presenting to you) to Carlos Baker, and received a reply back from him (which I may share with you all later on once you have had a chance to consider my findings yourself). I still have the envelope in which I sent my paper and introductory letter to Baker, as well as his response! Anyway, as you read what I put forth, please remember that most of this was written when I was just a college student, so have mercy!
I would like to start by addressing Amy’s comment concerning Hemingway’s religious background. Amy, I think you, and others, might find it interesting to read Julanne Isabelle’s book “Hemingway’s Religious Experiences”, as well as an article written by Daniel Pawley, “Ernest Hemingway: Tragedy of an Evangelical”. In short, these works show Hemingway not only to come from a very religious family heritage but also to have been a very zealous believer in his youth (before the war). Here are a few quotes from these works:
"Evangelicals or literary critics would wince at the idea of holding Hemingway up to illustrate any practical truth of interest to Christians. Most people, after all, know Hemingway as the animal-killing, bull-fighting tough boy; the boozing man of the world, married four times, who trotted the globe and made it his personal oyster, without conscience, without a morale code. They know him as the manic-depressed outpatient from the Mayo Clinic who, on a sunny Sunday morning in Idaho, disintegrated his head with a shotgun blast. There is, however, another Heminway...."
Hemingway was “religiously oriented”, “tempered within the Protestant tradition”. His family was a member of Oak Park Congregational Church. His mother Episcopalian. Grandfather Hall influenced Ernest in the Episcopalian tradition. He led the family in daily devotions, prayers, and table grace. His other grandfather, who had D.L. Moody as his dearest friend, was a Congregationalist, and deeply religious. “Ernest remained devoted to the First Congregational Church. He and his sister even entered a Bible-reading contest.” “Ernest often took charge of the Sunday afternoon services.” “Hemingway clung to his original beliefs formed during his youth. Evidence supporting this statement, is found in the report of Ernest and Ursala some forty years later in Havana, nostalgically recalling the visits of their Uncle Will, Dr. Hemingway’s brother, who was a medical missionary to Shensi Province, China. They sang ‘Jesus Loves Me’ in Chinese until the tears rolled down their cheeks”. “Hemingway’s character underwent a drastic transformation from the character of the nineteen-year-old Oak Park youth. Confronted with cruelty, as evidenced in war, he was put to the alternative of interposing to stop it or lose his sensibility. He chose a stoic façade as his weapon to shock his readers into the realizations he had faced. It is erroneous to assume that this façade was a part of his character, for it merely served as a guise to shelter a very sensitive nature.” “Hemingway’s criticism of the religions of his day does not verify his disbelief, as so many critics have erroneously assumed, but rather verifies that he had a hard time justifying his belief within the structure of any particular religion…”.
I could go on with quotes that try to show how affected Hemingway was as a youth with Christianity, but I will stop here so that this post won't be too long. I will follow up with another one.
I have to say this whole topic has really peaked my interest. But, to me I would hardly call the character Pedro Romero a christ chracter.In my opinion that would a stretch. The character of Pedro represents the youth and that cocky sort of optimism that Jake knows after years and experiences for him are gone. Pedro has a swagger and a self-confidence and an unrelenting passion for what he does.
Brett's character is one of hopeless searching. She drinks heavily and has many affairs and the more a man becomes infatuated with her the more she loses interest. She implies in the novel that her and Jake could’ve been good together: “Isn’t it pretty to think so.” To me this played on a couple of aspects. Jake was the one of the few characters in the book who wasn’t falling all over himself with her, but at that same time he was personally a wreck. He was conflicted on many levels and completely hopeless in life. Brett and him had that in common, but that along with his impotency were his biggest downfalls in possibly being with Brett. Brett needed to find someone who she could derive some since of hope or passion from and Jake was not able to offer that.
The last comment Jake makes to Brett- "Isn't it pretty to think so"- really is not referring to his relationship with Brett. They do end up together, and have been together throughout the whole novel (even though Brett cannot stand to be with him since he embodies the belief in "nothing"). That comment- "Isn't it pretty to think so") is Jake's response to Brett's comment concerning her relationship with Pedro Romero- "We could have had such a damn good time together". Brett had repeatedly brought it up before, and does so again this last time. Jake knows the tragedy of "The Sun/Son Also Rises" (and sets in the life of Brett). He knows that Brett- the need to believe in something- cannot believe in anything because she is bound to Jake. That is the damn tragedy that Hemingway was referring to when speaking about this novel, imo:)
I would like to share a few lines from my own paper to help move forward my thesis that the characters with whom Brett has affairs with in The Sun Also Rises are symbolic figures representing different philosophies/belief systems, and that Brett is the “need to believe in something” element within Jake, who (Jake) tragically believes in “nada” due to the “war”/injustices in life, and who represents Hemingway whose Christian faith was tragically overcome by the consequences of "war"/the "earth".“Because this work (SAR) is, in a very large sense, both historical and autobiographical we must be careful not to allow our knowledge of these facts limit our perception of Hemingway’s rightful use as an artist to add compound meaning and creativity to the subject matter in order to convey his theme. For Hemingway displays his skill in this way, throughout the novel, in the choosing of historical events and sites, and through the use of language, to beautifully cover up any obvious hints that may reveal the allegoric artistic style that he has employed in the writing of this novel. What I hope to reveal in this paper is Hemingway’s employment of allegoric and symbolic usage of characters, places, and words, in order to set forth the tragedy he had in mind when constructing the work. When I state that there are allegorical characters within this novel I mean to say that these characters are created personifications either of ideas or beliefs within the world, or they are personifications of certain aspects within Jake’s personality, conceived in the hope of supplying a deeper level of understanding than what appears on the surface.” Hemingway uses Jake- his main character- to represent his own self, and tragically Jake loses his previous Christian faith due to the war.
Hemingway, as you all know, did comment on this novel, saying that "the Sun Also Rises is a DAMN tragedy with the earth abiding as hero forever". Well, Brett says, in the second-to-the-last line of the novel, "We could have had such a DAMN good time together", to which Jake responds, "Yes, isn't it pretty to think so". That is the tragedy- Brett(the need to believe in something element within Jake) and Jake and Hemingway have all been swallowed up in the belief in "nada" due to the evils of the "war", which symbolizes all of the tragedies that we experience on this Earth. So "the sun rises and sets but the earth abides forever", per the book of Ecclesiastes, is Hemingway's way of saying that the Christian faith hasbeen overcome by evil/the earth in his own life. Hemingway uses this verse as a pun on the Son Jesus, who is represented in the character of Pedro Romero, who "rises" in the life of Brett, but tragically also "sets", and Brett (the need to believe in something element within Jake) and Jake (who believes in nothing) ride off into the sunset together.
Here is the last page of the paper I wrote on SAR when I was in college:The third section of the novel begins....Jake knew it wouldn't last (Brett's relationship with Pedro Romero) and so, after departing from Mike and Bill, awaits in San Sebastian for a telegram from Brett, knowing she always returns to the nada concept....Jake receives the telegram expected, and returns to Madrid to meet Brett. Once again we encounter Brett discontent, telling Jake "I've had such a hell of a time" (referring to her affair with Pedro Romero). She continues to repeat "let's not talk about it" (pp. 242 2x; 243 1x; 245 1x; 247 brings it up again) and yet repeatedly revives the conversation herself. The reason she left Pedro Romero was because he wanted Brett to grow her hair out (p.242). "He said it would make me more womanly." Once again we encounter Hemingway's resources of Biblical sumbolism. I Corinthians 11:15 says, "But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her". Hemingway chooses to use this Biblical advice for women, Brett being a woman, to convey the idea of conforming to God's will. Romero, a Christ-figure, wants Brett to conform to his will, thus the Biblical reference to women having long hair. But Brett, following her normal pattern, cannot stay with Romero. She states: "You know it makes one feel rather good deciding not to be a bitch. It's sort of what we have instead of God." Jake says, "Some people have God. Quite a lot". Brett replies, "He never worked very well with me". Brett has chosen against God. She now returned to her "nada" concept (Jake) and begins to call Jake her God and Lord. Jake's narration: "We lunched up-stairs at Botin's. It is one of the best restaurants in the world. We had roast young suckling pig and drank rioja alta. Brett did not eat much. She never at much. I ate a very big meal and drank three bottles of rioja alta." Brett then states: "How do you feel, Jake? MY GOD! What a meal you've eaten". Jake says, "I feel fine. Do you want dessert?" Brett replies, "LORD, no."
The ending of the novel sums up the tragedy of Jake's (Hemingway's) life. It has been misinterpreted thus far by all the critics. Brett states, "Oh, Jake, we could have had such a damned good time together". Brett is not referring directly to her relationship with Jake, but rather to her and Jake's relationship to Romero (Christ-figure). She has once again brought up the subject of Romero, that which she did not want to "talk about", supposedly. Jake responds with "Yes. Isn't it pretty to think so?" Jake realizes the dilemna he is in. He is impotent- unable to believe in anything, even in Christ, because of the "wound" he had received during the war. Brett and Jake "sat close against each other" and "turned out onto the GRAN VIA", another Biblical allusion found in Matthew 7:13: "the broad way that leadeth to destruction". "The Sun Also Rises is a damn tragedy with the earth as hero abiding forever." So Jake's life, so Hemingway's was, so many of our's are."
Very integrating insight. I might have to crack open this book again and check it out
Pls do, Jason. If interested in writing a paper on this interpretation, I can offer a few more insights.
Matthew awesome interpretation. I like the book that much more now that I have your insight. I read it in a English major prerequisite class in jr college a few years ago. Now I'm ready for a re-read. Thanks
Thanks, Chris. The SAR has a powerfully tragic message in it that will stay with me in this life.
I finished SAR a few months ago, at the time I had a vague impression that the characters could represent some of the nations in WWI, and/or Hemingway's idea of each nations 'typical' soldiers. Then the plot events would be symbolic of the events of the war. I was just starting to rereead the book to see how much there was to support this impression. When I looked up comments on Goodreads. I saw your comments Matthew. They are new to me, an entirely different and intriguing frame. So now I have two very different ideas of the book to apply as I reread. Has anyone seen any realtion to the characters and story to how Hemingway during and after the war might have seen the different nations and those events?
Brett, who has a multitude of “affairs” with “people” who represent different ideologies/beliefs, cannot “believe” in any of them for long. Why? Because her master- Jake- is impotent. His faith had been shattered on account of, and during, the war. Every time Brett begins to believe in something, she invariably becomes disillusioned and returns to Jake, who believes in nothing. Brett’s final affair is with Pedro Romero, a Christ figure. Even though it seems like this relationship/belief is going to be a lasting one, Brett, alas, ends up leaving him, too, because he criticized her on account of her “hair being too short”, which is an allusion to Christianity. The New Testament specifically says that it is “shame for a woman to have short hair”. There are many, many allusions to Christ in this portion of the novel when describing Pedro Romero. At the end of the book, when Brett (= the need to believe element within Jake) once again returns to the “nada” concept/Jake, she states, “Oh Jake, we could have had such a damn good time together”. Jake responds with, “Isn’t it pretty to think so”- the last line of the novel. What critics have failed to perceive is that Brett and Jake are not talking about their relationship with one another here (which has been assumed by ALL of the critics) but rather they are referring to Brett’s latest relationship with Pedro Romero. Brett, upon returning to Jake this last time, had continued to bring up, in her conversation with Jake, her relationship with Pedro Romero, and is doing so again this final time. When Brett states, “Oh Jake, we could have had such a damn good time together”, she is not talking about her relationship with Jake, for they are inextricably bound to each other! Rather she is once again bringing up her relationship with Pedro Romero- the Christ figure- and her regret over losing him. Jake knows his tragic situation- that he is incapable of believing in anything, and so he states, “Isn’t it pretty to think so”. This is the “damn tragedy” that Hemingway was referring to in his comment about this novel. Jake is doomed to believe in “nada/nothing” as a result of what he experienced on earth. Even though the “Sun” (a pun on the word “Son”- Pedro Romero, the Christ figure) had risen in the life of Jake, the “earth” and it’s hard lessons (the injustices) abides forever in the life of Jake. He believes in “nada”/nothing. Yes, it is “pretty to think” that belief in something meaningful is possible, but unfortunately, no, tragically, it is not possible. Thus Jake and Brett ride off into the sunset together.
My suspicion is that this is, in a way, an autobiography of Hemingway, who, in his youth, was a zealous believer in Christ, and who, during the war, was wounded and lost his faith in Christianity. It is interesting to note that one of Brett’s “affairs”, brief as it is, is with a group of homosexuals. I believe some have suspected that Hemingway may also have had a short-lived homosexual encounter. Everyone knows that Hemingway killed himself by shooting himself in the skull with a shotgun. Maybe he wanted his life to be seen, like “The Sun Also Rises”, as a “damn tragedy with the earth abiding as hero forever”. His own “need to believe in something” element (Brett) was shattered/crippled by “the earth” and all the tragedies and sin which occur in it, and even though the “Sun (Son= Pedro Romero/Christ figure)” rose in his own life, the Son also set in his own life with the Earth abiding as hero forever.