Reading the Chunksters discussion

Ok, here's out second reading section! This thread will be good for 2 weeks, so we have time to read all of part 2. What are your thoughts on this section??


Thomas Cromwell

I just finished the first chapter of part 2. I am wondering if Hilary Mantel is going to try and make Thomas Cromwell a sympathetic character. So far she has shown him to be an abused child and now a loyal friend to Cardinal Wolsey who was treated badly by the King. I am very intrigued by this book so far.

There's also his determination to not be abusive, as his father was, and his kindness to animals (or at least the original dog Bella and her subsequent replacement).

I don't know much at all about the history, so I am a little confused at some points, but I do get the gist of what's going on and I'm sure that sometime this weekend I'll sit down with some Wikipedia articles for a summary! The language is oddly modern to me, as others were saying in the Part I thread, but I like the humor--Liz's father, Cromwell's father-in-law, I found particularly entertaining!

I'm sure my sections of the copy I'm reading are ordered differently from everyone else's! Just finished part 2 and there's no mention of the father in law. The same happened during our first discussion thread.

I too am going to read up on Cromwell and am ashamed I know so little of him.

Was he just 13 when he ran away from his abusive father then? I don't mind the language style at all. I'd understand their Language were I of the time, and keeping it modern makes the characters as accessible/understood. If that makes sense?!

I also find myself looking up historical facts on wiki. So far, I am really enjoying it and do sympathize with Thomas Cromwell. My heart broke for him when his girls passed away. It was clear that he loved his wife and adored Anne.

In addition, it is interesting to follow the scheming ways of the Boleyn sisters. In a time when aristocratic women were seen as more of a burden (having to provide them with a dowry and marry them off), they are doing their best to climb up the ranks of the social ladder.

I am playing catch-up here. The last two weeks were uber-busy with friends and family.

So far, I find it relatable at certain places, but the court intrigue passages are one of the insipid ones in the book.

And I still have HUGE problems with the present-tense narrative and very modern, colloquial discourse, simple sentences, elliptical constructions and one-word syntax. Maybe, it is a new way of writing historical fiction when you modernize it beyond the postmodernity standards ... Well, it definitely helped Hilary win a Booker :-)

Now I am on par with everyone here and ready for the next section:-) The most endearing moments are are the mythological frames for the past history, the stories told by Cardinal Wolsey. I am quite familiar not with this Tudor current story, but with British history in general. Cardinal Wolsey's stories provide an epic and beautiful mythological insight into the account of names, Princes, interdynastial wars, and treaties. I especially liked how he combined the pagan folklore stories about Melusine with true events that we are familiar with from our textbooks.

I'm actually loving the (presumably) modern narrative style. I think it takes the writing away from middle-of-the-road speculative historical fiction.

I like how the dialogues are a mixture of the 'middle age style' we know from historical fiction and fantasy novels and a modern sense of humor. I don't know how to put it but the dialogues feel authentic to me, not to modern and not too far away.
It is remarkable how Mantel weaves Cromwell's personal matters into the political frame (private scenes and 'official' scenes alternate), she made me care about it all by mixing it.

Iselin, I completely agree! I think Mantel's dialogue lacks that affected historical fiction style that to me makes it more authentic and easier to relate to the characters. It's a contemporary novel that happens to be set in the 16C. And after all, real people didn't speak as if they're in an Elizabethan drama.

I am still finding the writing distracting. The narrative is very non-linear and we seem to have giant swings that go from macro-story (trying to get marriage annulled, history of britain) to micro (Cromwell's family).

I think that if I was really familiar with the story, I would probably think this was a fresh take, but when you're not familiar with the story -- it is taking a bit of work to even understand what is going on.

I'm more with JoLene on this. I'm finding it difficult to follow and while I'm somewhat familiar with the overall timeline (the actors from The Tudors keep popping into my head and help me keep track) all the similar names and the changing scenes and sheer number of characters is a bit overwhelming. But I wonder if that will get easier as I go along and the same people keep showing up and making their unique character more memorable.