GOOD REVIEWS discussion

Hi everyone,

I really would like as many as possible to give your honest feelings about review swaps. I think that any helpful advice we come up with, can aid a lot of authors in the area of reviews.

When I think of a "review swap", to me it inherently implies the obligation of a cordial review, and not necessarily an honest one. To me, an honest review is paramount so that I don't "troll" someone else's book because I dislike them as a person, nor am I pontificating on the beauty of something that is not there.

Once author #1 reads author #2 review, this can have a significant impact on the second review. I have experienced this first-hand with movie scripts. I don't want to do this again with books.

So given the above concerns, is there any practical advice anyone might have for review swaps to keep them honest going both ways? Do you, when you post your review, clarify to the reader that this was a review swap? Or does the reader have to find this out by going to the other author's site?

There are so many authors who are willing to do swap reviews, and I think that is great. I would just want to know if there is a method anyone has found to keep integrity in the process.

Thanks to all for your kind input!

Cordially,

Bruce Arrington

To be honest with you, people that can't take constructive criticism without resorting to childish behavior shouldn't then be writing. You need to take the bad with the good and if you can't take it from someone but be willing to give a good review back if it's warranted you really shouldn't be in this game at all.

I would check previous reviews of the person to see how they review. If they look pretty negative with their reviews I wouldn't bother with them. But if I did get into that situation, I would have a few more people review the book just to be sure it really is not the writing. If it is the reviewer just acting childish I would never ask them again.

There are I am sure plenty of swap reviewers out there that can take the criticism.

My friend Abby recommended I check this group out and let you know about Book Review Depot. Based on these comments, you might find it a good solution. www.facebook.com/bookreviewdepot. Concept: You choose 3 books from the active list of 30 to read and review. Once you complete 3, you get to put your book into queue to go on the list. After a book gets 10 reviews, it rolls off.

Rating guidelines: If you believe it is a 4 or 5 star, you post to Amazon. If you think it is a 3, you send it directly to author and let them know the good and bad and it's up to them if they want you to post it. Most people so far have wanted the 3's posted and also feel they are extremely helpful. If rating is less than a 3, send it directly to the author and simply say you couldn't give a 4 or better because ... with some helpful constructive criticism. The group has done well so far in just over 3 weeks. 96 reviews including (86) four's and five's; (4) three-stars and 6 constructive reviews.

Thanks Abby for the recommendation.

Bruce wrote: "Hi everyone,

I really would like as many as possible to give your honest feelings about review swaps. I think that any helpful advice we come up with, can aid a lot of authors in the area of revi..."

I don't recommend review swaps. We indie authors have a fair number of frustrated and bitter writers in our midst. I recommend finding readers of your genre and asking them politely to consider reviewing your book. This method spreads your book through the reader community you want to reach anyway.

Walk through Amazon or Goodreads reviews of a book similar to yours and email reviewers who share your take on that book. Be sure to individualize each email because we all bristle at spam.

Best of luck.

Peace, Seeley

Ginger wrote: "My friend Abby recommended I check this group out and let you know about Book Review Depot. Based on these comments, you might find it a good solution. www.facebook.com/bookreviewdepot. Concept: Yo..."

Great idea. Thank you for posting it.

Peace, Seeley

I do worry about review swaps although I request them often. I worry about having to read books not well written and also "retaliation" for giving less than five star reviews. But I like to help others get reviews for their books and give constructive criticism, which I find helpful. Whether it's on a swap or unsolicited, when we put our book out there we are subject getting "bad" reviews.

With that said, does anyone want to do a review swap!

I posted a question about how this all works and no one has responded. I'm not where we leave the review? On Amazon? On Goodreads? Through private email just to give feedback?

I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and worth at least a 4 on amazon. The other times the book had promise but had been published before it was ready for prime time. Twice i have agreed to swap reviews, bought the book and reviewed it and the other author stood me up. So while other authors generally are the best at writing reviews you want on your book page, either on amazon or goodreads, the experience is a mixed one.

To answer Elizabeth's question, reviews generally get posted on amazon and goodreads. Some authors also have blogs and post the reviews there as well.

Thank you Carmen! My first self published book has 11 reviews on Amazon which I feel is plenty. Do you think that is enough?

I do not post a bad review. If the book does not warrant a decent review of at least 4, I do not post a review at all regardless of the swap. I state that in the beginning to the other authors.
Wareeze

Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and worth at least a 4 on amazon. The other times t..."

That was the main reason I started the Book Review Depot because you have to complete the reviews first! I can tell you I've had 5's 4's 3's and a constructive review and I appreciated and learned from all of them. The group members have become comfortable giving honest reviews. Some people dock for grammar/punct. and some solely review on story. It's a great mix of personalities to give you a real sense of what different interests think about your book.
www.facebook.com/bookreviewdepot.

Elizabeth wrote: "Thank you Carmen! My first self published book has 11 reviews on Amazon which I feel is plenty. Do you think that is enough?"

Enough? What are you trying to accomplish with the reviews you receive? I think that in this case, more is better. You learn from your reviews and it generates interests in your book. You do want others to want to read it. In my opinion, eleven is not enough.

Wareeze wrote: "I do not post a bad review. If the book does not warrant a decent review of at least 4, I do not post a review at all regardless of the swap. I state that in the beginning to the other authors.
War..."

Sometimes you need to post a bad review just to show the author the book isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I must admit it didn't post one review I thought the book was so bad I didn't even finish it and just gave it one star but I should really write all the reviews good or bad because when I finally get my books published I expect to see good and bad reviews. I don't expect everyone to 5 star everything.

Thank you Abby! I am very, very new to this and need all the insight I can get.

Book Review Depot looks great. I've already downloaded a book from the list and I'm looking forward to reading it.

R.J. wrote: "Book Review Depot looks great. I've already downloaded a book from the list and I'm looking forward to reading it."

Hi R.J.! Let me know if you have any questions. It's super easy and there are some great books on the list from indie authors that I would have never found! I haven't read so much in years and as a writer, I've realized how much it helps to continually read! ENJOY!

Nicci wrote: "To be honest with you, people that can't take constructive criticism without resorting to childish behavior shouldn't then be writing. You need to take the bad with the good and if you can't take ..."
I would also hope that the reviewer is able to choose from a genre that they like/love. It has recently come to my attention that even some of the best loved books and movies have haters out there. This weekend, I watched "Les Miserables" and loved it, but found there were actually people who hated and/or walked out of the movie. If a gem like that has haters, I am sure there will be haters of our books too.
My personal opinion is that if the reviewer feels they are not going to like the book, they should change it for something else. I do realize, esp. these days, that there are poorly written books that it would be hard for anyone to write a good review about, but I also have noted that a number of terribly written books have become quite popular with the masses.
All I can say is I would be quite upset if I read and reviewed three books, then got a bad review on mine. My female protagonist goes into a civil war situation. I know that story is not for everyone, but yet, I couldn't bare someone writing a bad review because they hate women protagonists or because they hate war. (Actually, I hate war myself. That's why I wrote this book.)

It's funny I am having the same discussion with another group about bad reviews. My thought is everyone is not going to like your stuff even the greats get bad reviews. Don't get upset about a bad review move on. I would rather someone give me an honest bad review than someone giving me a 5 star just because they might hurt my feelings. If you can't stand to take bad reviews you are in the wrong business.

I completely agree with moving on. I actually seek out my harshest critics, thank them for their honesty, and offer them ARCs or other copies of my books in exchange for an honest review! I admire people who are honest and I prefer that my fellow authors be truthful in their evaluation of my work. I try to return the same--with respect, of course.

One of my favorite new friends here is CMJ who didn't really love my book that much - but took the sincere time to give me nearly 4 pages of free edits - stuff that my professional editor didn't catch. I was so thankful to have her review - completely honest!

I'm not at a point to revise the edition right now, but I am still converting the screenplay and those mistakes will be fixed. Love ya, CMJ! If you are ever lucky enough to get her to read and review you... be thankful!C.M.J. Wallace

I only post 4 or 5 star reviews. If the book doesn't earn one of those ratings, I notify the author along with the reasons for a lower rating. If an author wants the lower rating anyway, then I post it. I see other reviewers follow a similar plan. If the lower reviews are only posted at the author's request, there is no reason for reviewers not to be fair in their assessment of a book. In addition, we get to help each other out with some much needed suggestions and feedback.

To ensure fairness, each author can send his/her partner a copy of the review when it is ready; then both partners can post their reviews at the same time. This way, one author doesn't end up posting a review for someone who doesn't reciprocate.

Sherrie wrote: I would also hope that the reviewer is able to choose from a genre that they like/love. It has recently come to my attention that even some of the best loved books and movies have haters out there.
I totally agree with this. I've never been a big fan of Harry Potter, so if someone asked me to review a book they claimed to be "the next Harry Potter" I'd have to turn it down. If I didn't like it, it would probably be a sign that it was going to be an enormous success! I think people should try and review in genres they like.

Ginger wrote: "Hi R.J.! Let me know if you have any questions. It's super easy and there are some great books on the list from indie authors that I would have never found! I haven't read so much in years and as a writer, I've realized how much it helps to continually read! ENJOY!"
Hi Ginger - I can't wait to get started! I've got one in the queue at the moment and then I'm onto that list. Would be great to keep building the profile of the group.

I am all for constructive criticism. To me that means being able to mention something good (there is always something good to mention, even if you don't like the book in general) and try to be respectful in the way you address what you don't like.

Nicci wrote: "It's funny I am having the same discussion with another group about bad reviews. My thought is everyone is not going to like your stuff even the greats get bad reviews. Don't get upset about a ba..."

Don't think it is the bad review per se that is the problem...it is more the way the reviewer expesses himself.

Seeley wrote: "Ginger wrote: "My friend Abby recommended I check this group out and let you know about Book Review Depot. Based on these comments, you might find it a good solution. www.facebook.com/bookreviewdep..."

Thank you. Just liked the page.

Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and worth at least a 4 on amazon. The other times t..."

I liked the page, and I see the list of books posted but don't understand how can I list my book over there?

Mary wrote: "Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and worth at least a 4 on amazon. Th..."

Hi Mary Once you complete 3 reviews on Amazon, message me at the Book Review Depot site and let me know. I will verify them real quick and then I post the book for you.

Ginger, I clicked on the FB page link for Book Review Depot and it says the page is no longer there.

Ginger wrote: "Mary wrote: "Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and worth at least a 4 ..."

ok great, I will do that. Don't see the message button in the page though? Maybe you have to like my FB too for me to be able to send you a message?

Elizabeth wrote: "Ginger, I clicked on the FB page link for Book Review Depot and it says the page is no longer there."

Try this one again.

www.facebook.com/bookreviewdepot

Mary wrote: "Ginger wrote: "Mary wrote: "Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interesting and wort..."

Interesting. There isn't a message by the like button? What is your page and I'll like it and see. You can always message me here, too.

For some reason, I don't see the message button on your page. Here is my FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mary-P...

Ginger wrote: "Mary wrote: "Ginger wrote: "Mary wrote: "Carmen wrote: "I do review swaps with other authors who also write in the suspense, mystery, or crime genres. 4 out of 5 times I have found the book interes..."

Here is my personal page you can message me there, too!
https://www.facebook.com/ginger.gelsh...

The answer to your question is, don't be lame. You put your book out there for anyone to read. That means you take whatever criticism they care to dish out, fair or reasonable or not. It doesn't, in fact, hurt you. You can choose to take what's useful and throw out the junk, or not. This is just part of what it is to be a writer, or an artist, or a musician, or a human. Sometimes people won't like us. Sometimes we won't like other people. It's okay.

I disagree strenuously with a policy of only posting 4-5 star reviews. If somebody wants a review from me, that's what they get. I don't make any promises or agreements prior, nor do I expect that from anyone else. Aren't we all adults, or are we still in 8th grade? Doesn't everyone who reads reviews know that they are the opinion of another person whom they probably haven't met? Does everybody just do whatever some stranger tells them to do? I've seen bad reviews that gave me exactly the information I needed to know that I wanted to purchase the book.

That said, it's easy to see if a book is junk in the first few pages, and I won't read it. (I always look at an excerpt before I agree to review.) I won't review a book I haven't finished, so I never publish reviews less than 3 stars. But even 3 means that there were things I liked about the book, and I'd like to share that with other people. But I'm not going to lie and say it was better than it was.

I find it insulting to be asked to state that I was given the book for a review. Be professional and let your behavior speak for itself.

I think a lot of people make too much out of reviews. Yes, they're important for sales, yes, we all want to be liked, but, face it, we don't always get what we want in life.

Mary wrote: "For some reason, I don't see the message button on your page. Here is my FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mary-P..."

Liked your page. I checked my settings and the message button should be there, but I had someone else also say they couldn't see it. Seems random.

Ginger wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Ginger, I clicked on the FB page link for Book Review Depot and it says the page is no longer there."

Try this one again.

www.facebook.com/bookreviewdepot"

That worked! Thanks!

Elizabeth wrote: "Thank you Carmen! My first self published book has 11 reviews on Amazon which I feel is plenty. Do you think that is enough?"

Every reviewer has 3-8 friends who pay attention to those reviews. The more reviews you have, the more people you reach.

Peace, Seeley

Seeley wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Thank you Carmen! My first self published book has 11 reviews on Amazon which I feel is plenty. Do you think that is enough?"

Every reviewer has 3-8 friends who pay attention to ..."

I don't think there are ever enough!

I have a new book coming out and thought I'd exchange reviews, but after reading some of the comments, I am very wary.
What exactly is the best way?
It won't be released until Sept 3.
Barbara

Barbara wrote: "I have a new book coming out and thought I'd exchange reviews, but after reading some of the comments, I am very wary.
What exactly is the best way?
It won't be released until Sept 3.
Barbara"

I guess you just have to take your chances! Really, there is no way to be forwarned if a book will be good or bad, even if you pick it up at the library. Reviews on any book can vary.

What is your book about?

Hi Abby,
It's a Holiday romance. If its alright here's the blurb.
Journey of the Magi by Barbara Edwards
Widow Noel Martin never breaks promises, and she promised her kids they’d have Christmas at her childhood home in Connecticut. But driving across country takes money. Noel is broke when a snowstorm blows them into a tiny Minnesota café owned by a man who can change her mind. She accepts his offer of a job. Despite her attraction to him, she makes it clear she is only temporary help.
Dan Longstreet isn’t adopting any more strays, but he needs a waitress. Dan works so hard to make his café a success, he doesn't have time for love. Though Noel’s slender blonde beauty stuns him and her two adorable children tug at his heart, he denies how they threaten to change his life.
When tragedy strikes, their new-found love is the first victim. Noel can't stay and Dan can't leave. Will their journey be the gift that reunites them?
Thanks
Barbara

Personally, if there's a quid pro quo I think it should be no more than a willingness to read the book (or enough of the book to formulate a judgment) and offer an honest opinion to the author. If it's a good review, you post it. If you didn't like the book, just tell the author you tried but you can't honestly give it a good review. Swapping dishonest reviews degrades everyone.

Thanks to everyone for your kind input. I feel this discussion has been beneficial and insightful.

Regards,

Bruce Arrington

J.E. wrote: "Personally, if there's a quid pro quo I think it should be no more than a willingness to read the book (or enough of the book to formulate a judgment) and offer an honest opinion to the author. If ..."

I agree 100% percent. Blowing smoke doesn't do anyone any good because if you don't tell them, 10 others will!

Rachel wrote: "The answer to your question is, don't be lame. You put your book out there for anyone to read. That means you take whatever criticism they care to dish out, fair or reasonable or not. It doesn't, i..."

You bring up a good point. My reason for using the "book for honest review" stems from some people not being honest and heaping glory on books that did not deserve it. This way it communicates to the reader that I am being honest, not swayed.

I think it's also important to remember that reviews don't generate sales. Reviews might generate interest, that might end in book sales. There's a lot that goes into the sales part of books, and reviews are only a part of that.

Review swaps are rarely practical. I've been fortunate in that most of the books I've agreed to review have actually been good. With that said, I've made enemies over a few bad books I couldn't in good conscience rate over 1 or 2 stars. I learned the hard way that sometimes people who write terrible books have many friends willing to back them no matter how poorly written their works might be--and those friends sometimes are willing to create massive sock puppet shows in honor of those with the backbone to be honest.

I just don't review Indies anymore unless I can give the book a decent rating, and I do not accept Indie review requests. On the rare occasion I take a chance on a peer I respect personally and cannot in good conscience give a good review, I will write the author a private message letting him or her know why I cannot review it. Even that has bitten me in the rear; happened just recently, actually.

It's pretty pathetic when a person fears repercussions for leaving low ratings or negative reviews. It's sad when first-time "authors" cannot take constructive criticism, and even sadder when all of their friends are blowing smoke up their asses. Those people will never grow as writers because they'll never have the chance to address the issues holding them back. Moreover, potential readers receive skewed advice about their books, adding discredit to the entire review system.

Leigh wrote: "Review swaps are rarely practical. I've been fortunate in that most of the books I've agreed to review have actually been good. With that said, I've made enemies over a few bad books I couldn't i..."

Leigh-

Your last paragraph is so important. Refusing to take constructive criticism means you've closed the doors in that area of your life to improve. I wish more authors would be able to separate from their wounded feelings, and be able to take on the editor role, the fix-it role, or whatever role it takes to make needed changes to the story.

I also believe that there will always be lots of room in this world for good and great stories, and that really, we should not think we are competing against each other for that golden ticket spot. That's not how it works. I think it's more of a combination of: writing a really good or awesome story, being at the right place at the right time, and a whole lot of luck. In reality, few will probably ever get there.

When authors are able to give and take honestly, that raises the playing field for everyone. Because then you have a bunch of people who improve their writing craft, make better stories, and provide more enjoyment to the readers.

I think it's also important to remember who we are. We are creators, the makers of stories that take people out of this ordinary world, and plant them into ours. What a marvelous thing that is! And to support one another by pointing out what can make a story better should be one of the most important reasons why we want reviews. Honest reviews are like gold, because they provide a critically important perspective that we may never have. Think of it as your blind spot. We all have them.

So my hat is off to all of you out there who truly provide honest reviews. Thank you!

Bruce wrote: "Leigh wrote: "Review swaps are rarely practical. I've been fortunate in that most of the books I've agreed to review have actually been good. With that said, I've made enemies over a few bad book..."

Awwww! :) Love the passion behind how we take people out of their ordinary universe and plant them in ours!!! - and so true.

I certainly will never claim to be an expert at anything, there's always someone who can teach me a little more and that's how I see constructive criticism! Those 3 star people are really your best friends if you want to improve!