Fantasy Aficionados discussion

Our thread on Free Kindle books on Amazon got me thinking (http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... for those who want to check it out).

Are the every worth it? I noticed Sharon's comment (I think it was Sharon) saying that she seemed to be encountering more of the freebies with cliffhangers. I grabbed a freebie recently and had that exact thing happen. I bought the next, which I don't necessarily begrudge, but it did seem a little tricky.

Anyone discover an author that made sifting through it worth it? Are freebies just a way for new indie authors to get their name out? Are they all of dubious quality?

I got several glowing reviews from people who picked up my book on the give away weekend. They seemed happy about it.

It's like any free sample. If you have no name recognition, you need to get people talking about your book. Give a few away. If people like them and tell their friends, you may make some sales.

It's nice and low risk. I used to always check out new (to me, at least) authors by finding their books in the library. If I liked them , great, I had a new author to buy, if I didn't, well, who cares, it was free.

I think the free ebook is a good way (one of the few ways) for a new author to get read.

Is it good? I ended up giving the author a one or two stars for the second book--it was so much worse than the first. Since I was one of about 12 reviewers, that might have been a bummer.

My book?

It's outstanding.

There is lot's of bad stuff up for free, but there's enough bad stuff on the shelves at B&N. I've been burned by traditional publishers and authors and was out real money. I'll take a chance on somebody I've never read for free, or even as a $4 ebook and not feel screwed if it isn't very good.

I think the cliffhanger is a cheat. If people like your book, they'll want to read your next book. Giving a free book and ending on a cliffhanger is kinda lousy. You basically give them half a story for free.

Free books are good for getting fans and reviews. It's counterproductive to annoy your potential fans and reviewers.

I don't mind a cliffhanger, as long as the book itself had a complete story. But for too many Kindle books these days, it seems the authors are writing the story a few chapters at a time.

I'm also not fond of a recent trend to authors releasing "excerpts" from a book and listing it as a separate item. That, to me, is what the "sample" is supposed to be for. Now, the "excerpt" has a "sample" as well. :(

I have asked Amazon to have some way to omit books from searches based on length. It would get rid of a lot of these issues. Since when is an 8-page eBook worth $0.99?

I agree, the cliffhanger seems like an emotional cheat. Excerpts seem fair, because it gives the reader an idea of style and characterization.

I've also seen a trend towards 'serials' or kickstarting books that haven't been written--to me, both are unfortunate techniques for new authors. For an established author, I can support the idea a little better--I already have some idea of the work & style and might be willing to take a chance. For an unknown? Uh, no.

Although to be fair, maybe the cliffhanger harkens back to the idea of serials where "to be continued" required the person to wait a month before next installment.

Carol wrote: "Although to be fair, maybe the cliffhanger harkens back to the idea of serials where "to be continued" required the person to wait a month before next installment."

For me, that doesn't work with book episodes. The first installment is so short that I barely have time to even get to know the characters. After reading a number of books in the month in between, I have almost no recollection of the events or characters in the first episode.

Two, three years ago I would have said absolutely. It was like a cool, unexpected present. But over time as the daily offerings seem to have doubled, tripled & quadrupled it is more difficult to find that book that stands out and make you feel like you made an awesome new discovery.

But once in awhile you do discover one that makes going through that sometimes overwhelming list seem worth it. I discovered Lindsay Buroker's The Emperor's Edge series that way. The first book was a freebie (and still is on Amazon). And it was good enough that I bought the rest and discovered a new author int he process.

Cool.

That's what makes it worthwhile.

I think that, like everything, there's good and bad stuff out there. The permanently free books are maybe most likely to be dodgy - I read one once which was little more than a prologue, and the author expected me to fork out $3 each for the three subsequent parts. Since the free part was total rubbish, that wasn't going to happen. But then there's an author like Courtney Milan, who has a brilliant novelette available for free to introduce a new series, which I was happy to fork out my cash for.

With the temporary free runs it's a way for an author to get a bit of exposure and maybe some reviews. I've had limited success with it myself, though I don't think it was too bad considering I'm a complete unknown.

I was offered a free copy of First to Kill by Andrew Peterson on Amazon a couple of months ago and was in a bit of a lull so I figured what the hell. Typically most free ebooks I've tried have tended to suck but this one turned out fairly well. I ended up buying all three books in the series when all was said and done. I imagine it's a bit of a crapshoot but with the availability of unbiased reviews these days, it's not too hard to separate the wheat from the chaff

When it comes to getting your money's worth I have to agree that anything permanently free is probably worse than the stuff in the dollar bin. The ones that are on for free for a bit seem as though they are just looking for good promotional advertizing. As well it gives us a chance to read those older ones now in pubic domain that may be hard to get.

Derrick wrote:
Now I check here on GR for any author I'm not familiar with before spending my time. "
Yeah, thank God for Goodreads. I can't imagine how much lower the quality of my reading was before Goodreads. I gotta say now it's my home away from home. I usually use the link on a books page to my area's library to go straight there from GR and order it. With the amount I read, I couldn't afford to buy my books or I'd spend every cent on them and still not have as many to read.
that said, I guess if I did have a Kindle I'd have to be looking at a lot of free books.

As a reader, free is one way to check out unknown authors, esp with a Kindle or the like. I've been making a conscious effort to try out such new authors recently. But out of about 15 downloads I only read all the way through 2, one which was excellent (and I gave it a good review on GR) and one that was probably not worth the time I spent but at least I finished it. The others I stopped reading, often only after page 2 or 3 (ok one I am still chewing on). But that was about what I expected, and as they say, you get what you pay for.

I like browsing through the free books. But even for free, I read a sample page before downloading. Did the author hook me in that page, or was it all cliches, poorly used tropes, or "as we all know" dialog?

Goodreads is a blessing to fall back on when an author's work is in the "maybe" category for me. I can look them up with more coherence here than on Amazon and get an idea of what their game is. Are they stringing the reader along to force a buy of successive books? Heck, if the up front freebie is good, I am all too eager to buy successive books in the series and I don't hold their marketing strategy against them one bit.

Readers have never had more tools before them to ascertain the quality of a book. We have reviews at our fingertips and free previews. We can see every book an author has written, not just what is currently stocked on the shelves.

It's a good time to be a reader.

I rarely check freebies. Typically I'm in the mood for a certain kind of book so I'll put in keywords to peruse things. Then I download a sample. If it hooks me, I'll buy it, that simple.

Of the free books I've downloaded, I think I liked maybe one or two. But even so, I was picky about what I downloaded.

Here's one that's worth it. Frank Tuttle, an author I really enjoy:
http://www.amazon.com/All-Paths-Shado...

I used to love free books! I'd be like a kid on Christmas morn: nothing but nervous excitement.

That is gone now (unless a trusted author gives a freebie - then I *almost* KNOW a new book is about to be released (so its double exciting!).

Now, most of the time I can't be arsed to download and catalog the free books coming out - let alone read it. Most of them are shit. And have batshit crazy people writing them who write either aggressive or passive aggressive blog posts/PMs/emails/comments about reviewing: They want reviews. They NEED reviews. The reader is a selfish bastard for taking the free book but not reviewing. PLEASE review! The reader is STEALING by taking a free book and not reviewing! But if a negative review comes out, the tune changes to: You are all rotten, dirty, selfish meanies who are jealous of my success! You didn't read it right. You didn't "get it." Everybody else loved it! I have a 4.5 star average at Amazon! You should have stopped reading it! Why bother writing a review for a book you hated?? If yu got a free book you should write a good review! It's only fair. Bullies!!



Soooooo done.


Can't be bothered. Can't be bothered to read it, can't be bothered to review it. Will not download it. Stopped taking review requests.

Ditto. Very, very done. Especially with cut-n-pasted author requests. Last one I got added my name and forgot to remove 'Lucinda.' :D

Carol. [Only Unicorns and Rainbows] wrote: "Ditto. Very, very done. Especially with cut-n-pasted author requests. Last one I got added my name and forgot to remove 'Lucinda.' :D"

lol!


I get those a lot.

Had one "publisher" email me with the "exciting opportunity" to review some bad sounding book. Since it looked kinda spammy I ignored it. Person emailed me 3 more times DEMANDING I respond. 3rd email started with "Hey Dummies!"

No effin' way! Um, that would have completely necessitated a flaunting of shelf policy and a 'badly behaving' title!

Carol. [Only Unicorns and Rainbows] wrote: "No effin' way! Um, that would have completely necessitated a flaunting of shelf policy and a 'badly behaving' title!"

Well, over time I'm starting to develop my own policy: the "no publicity" policy. Each on a case by case basis BUT the main thing is: I'm not helping some unknown asshole become well-known (or notorious) via treating me like crap or pissing me off.

As it stands, no one has ever heard of that crappy book and it's crappier "publisher" but that would have changed if I'd added them to the list. Nawl. I'd rather they languish in obscurity.

Carol. [Only Unicorns and Rainbows] wrote: "Here's one that's worth it. Frank Tuttle, an author I really enjoy:
http://www.amazon.com/All-Paths-Shado..."

I agree - this is a good book (thank you, Carol)!

I wade through the bad in the hopes of finding the hidden gems like this...

I just wish more authors would polish their work before self-publishing. An editor is a terrible thing to waste.

You're welcome, Lucinda. It is hard to find the wheat in the chaff... I have no idea how I happened upon Tuttle, but he's one of the few that I can't believe isn't wider known. Articulate, humorous-- he had a Facebook series of pics when his wife was out of town that were hysterical (mostly pretending he was 'remodeling' or storing his motorcycle in the kitchen).

Good point about any kind of attention being a reward, MrsJ. My trouble is that I'm forgetful, so sometimes I can't remember why I wanted to remember that name--was it to read them? Or not read them? :)

Most freebies, in my experience, are mediocre. I'm not sure if that's a reflection of the self-published market or not. It'd be instructive to see a breakdown of freebies in terms of big press, small press, self-pub.

As far as cliffhangers, I think they're fine. Short stories masquerading as novella or novel length is what irritates me.

Carol. [Only Unicorns and Rainbows] wrote: "You're welcome, Lucinda. It is hard to find the wheat in the chaff... I have no idea how I happened upon Tuttle, but he's one of the few that I can't believe isn't wider known. Articulate, humorous..."

Oh, I'm there with you re: memory. The thing is though - the blurb was laughable and would have NEVER been picked up. Not even from a "free" pile. So, I have no concern that I'd pick that one up by mistake. :)

I've decided to start cataloging some books here again - but not many. Maybe my "Thanks but no thanks" books will be here for quick consultation. I'm using book collector and it has a wishlist section which separates into "on wish list" and "on order." So, no buying any book that hasn't made my BC wishlist (which is a lot harder than my GR wishlist was, lol).

I discovered Cameron Jace when he had a free promotion, but he is the only author out of all the free ones I've downloaded that I actually LOVE. I've found another one or two authors who were OK, but nothing great. I'm not saying that all free books are junk...just most of the ones I've encountered (classics being excluded). :-/

Christopher wrote: "As far as cliffhangers, I think they're fine. Short stories masquerading as novella or novel length is what irritates me. "

I think that's what a lot of us mean by "Cliff hanger" re: freebies. It's that you don't get a full story - it's a snippet (which should have been a sample) or its like 1/4th of the book or something. Ending right before a climatic point.

I had one book I got as "free" that way. It was a "free sample" of the full "book:" A 15K novella...which equals about 60 pages. It was $3.99 (per my notes) for the full story. The short of a short that I got was barely a full scene - more like 1/4 of a scene and I hadn't a clue as to what it all meant [no context].

Strangely enough, the book seems to have been pulled from....everywhere. I just tried to find it at Amazon, Smashwords AND the author's site. No go. I'm thinking she must have gotten complaints.

^ha.

I *really* wish Goodreads (or Amazon) would develop something like Steam's Greenlight for books.

Greenlight is a brilliant way to allow new and independent game developers access to their audience but, at the same time, protect the intended audience (from unscrupulous/unprofessional/unwanted cr*p).

From the community Greenlight page:

Steam Greenlight is a new system that enlists the community's help in picking some of the next games to be released on Steam. Developers post information, screenshots, and videos for their game and seek a critical mass of community support in order to get selected for distribution. Steam Greenlight also helps developers get feedback from potential customers and start creating an active community around their game as early in the development process as they like...

This just makes so much more sense than the current scatter-shot approach self-published/new authors are using...

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "I think that's what a lot of us mean by "Cliff hanger" re: freebies. It's that you don't get a full story - it's a snippet (which should have been a sample) or its like 1/4th of the book or something."

Exactly. Highly irritating.

Lucinda wrote: "I *really* wish Goodreads (or Amazon) would develop something like Steam's Greenlight for books.

Greenlight is a brilliant way to allow new and independent game developers access to their audience..."

I love Steam's Greenlight. LOVE. And I think that is a great idea. But the problem IS Amazon: they've already made self-publishing waaayyy too easy. There's no way in hell they are even going to try to close the barn door now that the horse is gone.

I *think* that its possible BUT it would have to be no where near GR/Amazon. This company has already stuck its flag in the ground.

Lucinda wrote: "I *really* wish Goodreads (or Amazon) would develop something like Steam's Greenlight for books.
Greenlight is a brilliant way to allow new and independent game developers access to their audience..."

I love the idea. But like anything else, it could be perverted. As a writer, I encountered the following situations. A writer published by my publisher entered a competition where the voting is done by the public. And she asks everyone from that publishing house (and of course everyone of her friends and neighbors and etc) to vote for her... once a day. And people do it. They log on to the competition site as often as it's allowed by the rules and vote - again and again. The winner is not the best but the one with the biggest stable of friends. I never vote in such situations, but some do. The 'public vote' is not exactly what it seems.

Olga wrote: "I love the idea. But like anything else, it could be perverted. As a writer, I encountered the following situations. A writer published by my publisher entered a competition where the voting is done by the public. And she asks everyone from that publishing house (and of course everyone of her friends and neighbors and etc) to vote for her... once a day. And people do it. They log on to the competition site as often as it's allowed by the rules and vote - again and again. The winner is not the best but the one with the biggest stable of friends. I never vote in such situations, but some do. The 'public vote' is not exactly what it seems."

Steam is a little different - you can only vote as a registered member and you have to have a certain amount of activity before they allow other "gameable" actions on the part of the member - like voting. IIRC I wasn't allowed to vote on Greenlight when I first got my Steam account. Basically I had to prove I was a real person (or at least a sock puppet that was going to contribute).

I think if a voting from the same person/computer is limited to once only, it might work too.

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: I *think* that its possible BUT it would have to be no where near GR/Amazon. This company has already stuck its flag in the ground. "

You would think that Amazon would hold its reputation as a reader's "Book Mecca" in higher regard than they currently do. They use to be the belle of the ball, now they're just a cheap date...lol.

Lucinda wrote: "You would think that Amazon would hold its reputation as a reader's "Book Mecca" in higher regard than they currently do. They use to be the belle of the ball, now they're just a cheap date...lol. "

lol!

Freebies are very hit and miss. At one point there was a lot of good to them, a good marketing tool to get your work in front of readers. Now, not so much. With the traditionally published authors doing regular sales for books down to the 99 cent and 2.99 price point, free has become less effective.

As for reading, I've found some good freebies, but have had more than my share of bad ones. Most of the ones I DID pick up were complete books from a series, and I'll usually wait until the author has three books out in the series and happens to offer the first for free.

Terry wrote: "Freebies are very hit and miss. At one point there was a lot of good to them, a good marketing tool to get your work in front of readers. Now, not so much. With the traditionally published authors ..."

I can't get up the energy to go after free books anymore.

I've been burned too many times. Now mostly known commodities only.

Blimey, those unsolicited messages sound like a nutter from a dating website.

I can see why some might have a single e-book for free. If you've got, say, 5 books, then having the first for zero cost might help entice readers who are unsure without having to fork any money out. If they like it, they can buy the other 4, and if they don't, they haven't spent anything.

Thaddeus wrote: "Blimey, those unsolicited messages sound like a nutter from a dating website.

I can see why some might have a single e-book for free. If you've got, say, 5 books, then having the first for zero co..."

That was the conse sus at a writing forum I read. Free first book in a series can help.

Lawrenz wrote: "Freebies may not always be great but Amazon does give you a chance to read the first 40 or so pages. If you decide to actually read the book, you should know what you're getting yourself into.

Per..."

Hi Lawrenz.

We do not allow self promotion in the regular threads. I need you to edit this comment or I will have to remove it.

Lawrenz wrote: "Lawrenz Lano (LawrenzLano) | 179 comments Freebies may not always be great but Amazon does give you a chance to read the first 40 or so pages. If you decide to actually read the book, you should know what you're getting yourself into."

Back on topic - the sample does not always let the reader know "what they are getting into."

There are tons of reader horror stories where a SPA had only the first few chapters of a book edited - the part that is in the sample. Upon purchase the reader discovers the rest of the book is unreadable.

It's not just SPAs. Small presses too.

I think most books aren't worth it. Honestly, if I were to do a survey of books I've read, most of which I paid for, more were bad than good. Now, there were some great ones, ones that stuck with me, that I reread on a regular basis. But overall, more bad than good.

And that goes for traditionally published, bough with cash in a major bookstore books as well as self published freebies.

I tend to read books that people I trust have recommended, or new stuff from authors who have already impressed me.

I will take a chance on an unknown if it;s free or cheap. If I like that author, I will hunt down everything he or she wrote. If not, well, at least I'm not out much money.

Very nice discussion... Many points here are also mine, like most free books aren't that good, and about how short they are, etc.

I's like to add my two cents saying, I actually think that also most published books (small-big press) are also not so good. I think the market is too full of the same thing. Characters and plots are now carbon copies of each other :P

When I browse for books, I am always after a very specific subject and style. So, regardless of price, I look for: title, cover, synopsis and sample.

And as an illustrator and graphic designer, poorly designed covers are a NO-GO for me :P

I got the first book in the Farseer series as a free ebook.

I always check on Goodreads to see the rating vs. Amazon, etc., before committing to a "free" e-book. I've actually found some, usually for .99 cents, that are worthy of recommending. That said, if there are more than three typos per page, I often give up, even if the plot is intriguing, because I'm a perfectionist and a writer, and would never submit my work with gratuitous typos.

There are various reasons that a writer will offer a book for free, none of which is because they suck, although that's certainly possible. Sometimes authors are trying to get introduced to a new audience. Sometimes, they are trying to introduce readers to the first book in a series. The bottom line is that free doesn't mean bad just like a high price doesn't mean good.