Dangerous Hero Addict Support Group discussion

Do you care how educated your hero/heroine is? Is a college education important in books? These days more and more people are furthering their education by attending college or technical schools. But does it really matter in the stories we read?

Smart is important, but not level of education. I guess if you are on a Billionaire CEO kick, you'd care. If you are on a Cowboy kick, maybe not so much. Intelligence is sexy but that doesn't mean that they have to have a phd.

No, that doesn't matter to me. I want to see a different kinds of heroines--book smart, street smart, etc. If every character had the same life experience, reading would be boring.

But no TSTL's!

Not at all, especially for the heroine. And heroes like firemen, constructors, etc, are also ok for me (don't need a college degree for those in Greece, not sure if it's the same for America).

Shannon wrote: "Smart is important, but not level of education. I guess if you are on a Billionaire CEO kick, you'd care. If you are on a Cowboy kick, maybe not so much. Intelligence is sexy but that doesn't me..."

I have to agree with Shannon's philosophy. If it's a CEO than I expect some kind of formal education, not so much if it's an MMMA fighter, or rock star. I do love smart characters, which is a separate concept. I know a lot of educated people in real life that lack basic common sense. It's my pet peeve.

It's not required for me to like/connect to a hero/heroine, but I think it adds another dimension. I tend to be interested in things intellectual and people who do pursue learning and pursuits of the mind. I love a hero who is very smart, it's just sexy to me. Nerds are hot to me!

As a very pro-women person, I like to see women who have pursued higher academic learning and careers that employ their intellectual talents. I don't like to see women who are objectified and marginalized based on their looks, like their heads are empty and have nothing to offer.

Not everyone needs a college education, but being educated isn't just about formal studying. It's about reading and learning, and I think that's very important to keep learning and growing as a person.

So, not in a snobby way, but yes, I do like this aspect to storytelling. Hope that makes sense.

I tend to agree that an educated hero/heroine isn't necessary for me to enjoy the story. I love reading stories where the H or h make it in spite of their lack of education. And yes, you can be self-educated.

That said, I like hero and heroine to have a brain. They don't have to have the formal education but I want them to want to improve themselves. Books and schools are great for learning but sometimes hands-on experience is better. I have found that for myself I tend to pick up on things better with the hands-on approach rather than trying to read about it.

It really depends on the character's job, but it's not a requirement for me to read/enjoy a book. I'm fine with street smarts as long as no one is TSTL. That, I cannot tolerate no matter what profession the person has!

Pamela, I think hands on education is a very good way to learn in many settings. There are some things I cannot learn from reading a book. Especially physical tasks. For instance, the only way I have improved my painting skills is by painting. I love a self-made, educated person. I do think that part of that is making an effort to learn and grow, and that is what attracts me to a character--that desire to grow as a person.

And of course there's all sorts of intelligence not just the kind that can be measured by IQ tests. And sometimes life is the greatest teacher of all.

I agree with Lisa & Kim. For me she doesn't have to be highly educated, but she has to be intelligent. No air headedness! It makes the character much less credible when they make them silly. For me anyway.

Lisa

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "And of course there's all sorts of intelligence not just the kind that can be measured by IQ tests. And sometimes life is the greatest teacher of all."

Probably the best sort of intelligence is the none testable kind. Common sense is essential.

Formal education qualifications don't bother me and certainly I don't deem them necessary. I've met some incredibly intelligent people - higher-education-wise who are dumb as rocks when it comes to common sense. Also some people who barely graduated high school who are incredibly "switched on". There are also tonnes of reasons people don't go on to colleges, universities, etc. I like people who are intelligent, but that can come in various forms, from just plain ole common sense, from life experiences or from being well read, or from actually having some sort of degree. But yeah, for me, "higher education" is definitely not the be-all and end-all.

The heroine needs an edge of intelligence to her. That being said, she doesn't have to be "book smart." Like Ellie in Kresley Cole's Lothaire (IAD), she was a hill-billy, but she had street smarts and thought on her toes.
I like a story where the hero/heroine are on equal footing when it comes to intelligence. Who wants to be talked down to? NOT ME! In fact, I find intelligence to be a turn-on, especially if there's good banter. :)

Yes, Emily, I'd hate it if one talked down to the other. But I have read books where one was a genius of sorts and they didn't talk down to the other.

I like smarties but I like all the ways there are to be smart. IQ, EQ, Common Senese, Savant, Street Smarts, Nerd Smart and so on...

The intellectual person that came to my mind first while reading this post, was Ana Steele from FSOG...so smart like a slice of bread!
No, I don´t think the characters must have graduated at Cambridge or Eton in order to attract my interest. What they do education-wise is just a sidenote for me or an explanation for the setting.

Katerina wrote: "The intellectual person that came to my mind first while reading this post, was Ana Steele from FSOG...so smart like a slice of bread!
No, I don´t think the characters must have graduated at Cambri..."

LOL, OMG, that's funny.

I don't think further education is important for me to enjoy a story. I have a great group of friends who are very 'smart' but they are not university educated.
As long as they are not air heads with no common sense, I will enjoy reading about them.

I don´t know if I am the only one here. But I often think that authors try to educate the readers!
So when young girls read about their heroines attending college maybe they will do the same, which is not bad at all!
And also, I have noticed that a lot of the heroines always apply make-up and use lip-gloss and wear strappy sandals and sundresses and it feels like someone is trying to steer me in a specific direction. I don´t even want to mention all the piercing and tattoes a lot of the lead characters have lately. We read about it all the time and we cannot avoid that it affects our lives at some point, a lot more when you are at a vulnerable age...
I don´t know if you get my point, it is difficult to explain at this ungodly hour here in Germany...but it feels like someone is trying to brainwash me!

Katerina wrote: "I don´t know if I am the only one here. But I often think that authors try to educate the readers!
So when young girls read about their heroines attending college maybe they will do the same, which..."

lol. I sometimes think that we are being brainwashed to a degree. Trying to convince us that certain brands or designer names are important. I often prefer the heroines that live in jeans and tshirts. No brand names mentioned. But it can work to an advantage regarding education and being a good and kind person.

I think that romance authors do have some ability to influence the viewpoints of their readers. That's why I like the authors who don't write cookie-cutter characters who reflect unhealthy standards of beauty for women.

At the same time, it's just fiction and mature readers should not necessarily allow fiction books and the themes to change their worldview other than just exposure to other ways of life outside of their own.

@ Lady Danielle aka The Book Huntress

See, you said it yourself : "mature readers"
what if the reader is an 18 year old girl, more easily to be influenced than a 40 year old one?
She reads history or regency romances and she can draw the line between real life and fiction. Because the possibilities that she will become a duchess, a princess, marry an earl, are limited.
This can blur when you read contemporary romance books at this young age, your perception is different than the one of an 40yo reader!
The characters wear designer clothes, drive expensive cars, the life in a motorcycle club is being glorified, some of the lead characters have tattoos and piercings, they curse all day, are involved in BDSM...I could continue endlessly.
Being surrounded by advertisements in real life every day and then reading about it in books can be like an amplifier!

Katerina wrote: "the life in an motorcycle club is being glorified..."

I don't get this either. I understand the appeal of a "bad boy", but these guys don't seem like they're even nice to the h's in the stories...

Lady Danielle aka The Book Huntress wrote: "I think that romance authors do have some ability to influence the viewpoints of their readers. That's why I like the authors who don't write cookie-cutter characters who reflect unhealthy standards for women

I couldn't agree more. But there's a double standard in romance. Especially paranormal romance. Ideally I want variety for female and male characters both.

Education isn't a deal maker or breaker for me. But I am attracted to intelligent characters. Which, has been said before, is two different things. And I love witty humor.

I do not like snobs though. I think I'm the only woman in the world who can't stand Mr. Darcy.

@ Katerina, I don't know if I think that young readers are always impressionable. I started reading romance when I was twelve, and it didn't make me want to go out and have sex or chase down bad boys, or pursue unhealthy habits and lifestyles. And I was very young, naive and somewhat sheltered.

Honestly, I think parental influence should still be important. If you have young kids, you should keep an eye on what they are reading and discuss it with them. I'm not saying don't allow them to read anything you haven't read, but at least have oversight over them, or have influence in their lives on the values. Parents should never cede the authority to society, the media, or peers.

@Traci, I don't always expect a physically perfect hero. I think what I need to feel is they find each other attractive and want to be together.

@ Lady Danielle aka The Book Huntress
as I said, this is how I see it and I won´t try convincing anyone to see things the way I do...
We are the same age and in a lot of romance books back then the sex happened behind closed doors and was rarely described in full detail and surely not the way it is today.If you wanted something with BDSM in it, you had to search for this very long and it was not a freebie on amazon. In comparison to the books today they were pretty tame in every way!

I won't deny that most readily available 'romance' books were a lot more tame sexually than now. I agree with you on that.

But I do have to say this, the average 18 year old is nowhere near as naive or sheltered as they were say twenty years ago.

http://influence.bafree.net/facts-abo...

Thanks for sharing the article, Katerina. I more or less agree with what was said. As I said above, I think that parents should have the authority over their children, and should not allow anything to influence them more than they do.

Thanks for sharing, Katerina! I enjoyed reading it. As a parent I do think the media has great influence and I know its up to me and my hubby to put forth our values and beliefs and hope we manage to have some of what we say take root.

Curiosity, wit and intellect are huge turn-ons for me. If he doesn't have a formal education, he's self-taught. A man's brain is his second sexiest part.

I don't care. It all depends on the story. If the H is supposed to be a self-made man with hard skills and tough exterior...I don't care if he has a degree to support his intelligence.
If he's written as fighting against his distant royal blood, then he's in need of some pedigree upbringing and education certainly.
But intelligence, a big brain to go with other hopefully large parts...that's a must for me.

Intellectual doesn't always equal intelligent. Sometime it just equal patience or the path of least resistance. So for me it's another character trait.

@Pepper: Good point. Intelligence can come in many forms in RL, so I expect it in books too.

But nothing beats up a would-be-great story worse than an H or h that are said to be smart, but then only act dumb...I just have to roll my eyes and stop readin' at that point.

Susan wrote: "Curiosity, wit and intellect are huge turn-ons for me. If he doesn't have a formal education, he's self-taught. A man's brain is his second sexiest part."

Agree!

I think that there are plenty of people with formal degrees but they aren't thinkers or intellectuals. I like to see a hero who uses what he's got. I'm a nerd, so I find nerds highly attractive. So it's a plus if the hero has some nerdiness to him. :)

Danielle The Book Huntress (Self-Proclaimed Book Ninja) wrote: "I think that there are plenty of people with formal degrees but they aren't thinkers or intellectuals. I like to see a hero who uses what he's got. I'm a nerd, so I find nerds highly attractive. S..."

I agree as I was and still am a nerd, although way nerdier in my high school and college days. Love a nerd, but hero doesn't have to be a nerd. Strength of character is a plus.

I agree, MadameZelda. Strength of character is crucial.

Katerina wrote: "I don´t know if I am the only one here. But I often think that authors try to educate the readers!
So when young girls read about their heroines attending college maybe they will do the same, which is not bad at all!... "

Katerina I agree with this right here. It also why it really bothers me when characters in contemporary books aren't using safe sex, or at least having "the conversation" before deciding to forgo it. A lot of women have credited the new popularity of erotic romance for spicing up, and expanding their love life horizons. It's a wasted chance to subtly assert that a woman being in control of her sexual health is sexy, and not trampy to know about such things.

Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Katerina wrote: "I don´t know if I am the only one here. But I often think that authors try to educate the readers!
So when young girls read about their heroines attending college maybe they will d..."

I don't disagree with either of you per se, but I am in the middle of two other thoughts. 1)it's more of a sign of the times making the female more sexually aware while she's in college. 2) Maybe its more that this could be you, your life, your adventure, your thrills, etc.

But either begs the question is art imitating life or is life imitating art?

Willow, a huge AMEN to your comment about characters who are described as smart but act dumb. In the hands of a good writer, a character's...well, character traits, like intelligence or cruelty or kindness or a sense of humor, ought to be obvious from the things they say and do. And I hate it with the heat of a thousand suns when an author tells me someone is intelligent or witty and then can't make it believable. Case in point: I DNFed a Catherine Coulter romance when she insisted that everyone admired the heroine's sense of humor, but never delivered a single line of dialog that showed it. (If a character is witty, you will never have to tell the reader, "She's witty; oh, and everyone is delighted by this joke.") On the faux-intelligence front, I read a wannabe erotic novel last year where the heroine, who was supposed to be a brilliant businesswoman, referred to her "pink part." I laughed so suddenly I frightened my dog.

@Susan: I've done that - scared my 72lb pittie with laughing out loud at a book's craziness! both good and bad!! I was cracking up at JA Huss 3,2,1 at very inappropriate times from the dialog.
Total agreement with you. I haven't read any Coulter (too light for me 8) but that would've annoyed me too and been reason enough to NF. I think there's another thread somewhere about DNF - I'll have to search it out again, because there was some funny stuff in it.

@Pepper/Pagan/Katerina: I think it can go both ways. Life/art imitating each other. Frankly, I get annoyed by stories that have too much realism about safe sex/hygiene thrown in, because I want a fantasy, and I'm intelligent enough to know that in RL condoms are the safest safe sex next to not getting any, going from anal to any other body part is not healthy without a thorough scrub down in between, ad anything involving blood/bodily waste can be considered in the high risk department.
But in the right author's hands, I'm willing to forego the necessary discussion/description of the health and well being of the characters during the juicy sex acts...because they are just characters for me.
And as far as educating the youth or any reader for that matter...it's silly to look to a romance/erotic novel for education of any kind. It can be inspirational, sure, but educational...just not my cup of' I guess.

LOL. Agreed, I don't need Too Much Information about the precautions the characters take, as long as they don't act shocked by a pregnancy resulting from unprotected sex. "A baby? How did that happen?"

This thread is a lot of fun.